Scouts Inc. Fantasy O-Line rankings

[VOR]

Sounds like you've seen Hardy play a number of NFL games already. Oh wait, no you haven't. He hasn't played against one NFL corner, so all of you statements about him being slow, not able to get away from his coverage, and running terrible routes is all a bunch of skeptical mumbo-jumbo. By the way, some of the corners in the Big Ten are also pretty good. Those tend to the ones covering a team's best receiver on Saturday's. Oh, yeah. THose were the guys that were covering Hardy, whom he roundly STOMPED week in and week out, not for one year, but for three years. From what I could see in OTAs, the guy ran very good short and intermediate routes.

 

As for whether he would get the ball if JP was the QB, this isn't a QB thread, but, you're right. JP would throw it at his FEET!!!!! Just like he did with the short receivers we have now. The fact is, you have nothing to back up your hypothesis on Hardy's capabilities. He played against the best the Big Ten had to offer, not the slugs, and he routinely beat them. He has good hands and runs good routes for what we need. A big target over the middle. Until you have some facts or actual game footage of Hardy in an NFL game doing what you say, it's just a bunch of hot air.

And since he'll be the #2 WR, he won't be going against an opponent's best CB. The stuff about beating the jam is hogwash. Receivers much smaller than Hardy have learned to beat it. And again if Hardy allegedly couldn't get separation in college, how'd he catch 191 passes? The opposing DB falling down all the time?

[ax4782]

Based on Hardy's super-human stats, he SHOULD have been a rock solid 1st round selection in a weak WR class.

 

Gee- I wonder what the NFL GMs and scouts for 32 NFL teams saw that they all passed on Hardy in the 1st round.

 

not to mention that he still wasn't the first WR off the board

 

hard to believe based on the inflated stats he put up -

 

but hey - what do the experts know?

 

Factor in has questionable character traits - and the guy is no sure thing to produce in 2008.

 

He needs to improve a lot to make the transition to the NFL - being tall is not enough

 

Yes because Chris Mortenson and friends on ESPN sure get every prediction right about players coming into the NFL. The fact is, this was perceived "weak" draft class, but the stats are pretty clear. I didn't say that Hardy was going to catch 75-1200-15. I have consistently stated that a good season for him at the #2 or #3 WR spot would be 45-650-6. If he can have those type of numbers, he would be a serious help to Lee and the offense. And in case you didn't watch the draft, there are a lot of factors that go into why certain types of players don't get drafted in the first round. This year featured three long runs in the first draft and teams didn't want to get left out. DT, DB, OT, and RB were all multiply selected in the first round. IIRC 21 of the first 32 picks were from those positions. Two more were QBs and at least 2 more were LBs. Teams drafted by need and when a run starts you pick the best player left for that need. Such has been the trend in the draft for the last ten years. Buffalo was out in front of it this time and we got a good selection. Fortunately we were out near the front in the second round when the run on receivers started and we ended up with probably the second best receiver that was available in the whole draft. Note, Hardy does not have injury issues, which is why IMO he was as good or better than some of the others. Before we pass judgment on him, let's see how he does. He has all the tangibles to be a successful WR.

[obie_wan]

Yes because Chris Mortenson and friends on ESPN sure get every prediction right about players coming into the NFL. The fact is, this was perceived "weak" draft class, but the stats are pretty clear. I didn't say that Hardy was going to catch 75-1200-15. I have consistently stated that a good season for him at the #2 or #3 WR spot would be 45-650-6. If he can have those type of numbers, he would be a serious help to Lee and the offense. And in case you didn't watch the draft, there are a lot of factors that go into why certain types of players don't get drafted in the first round. This year featured three long runs in the first draft and teams didn't want to get left out. DT, DB, OT, and RB were all multiply selected in the first round. IIRC 21 of the first 32 picks were from those positions. Two more were QBs and at least 2 more were LBs. Teams drafted by need and when a run starts you pick the best player left for that need. Such has been the trend in the draft for the last ten years. Buffalo was out in front of it this time and we got a good selection. Fortunately we were out near the front in the second round when the run on receivers started and we ended up with probably the second best receiver that was available in the whole draft. Note, Hardy does not have injury issues, which is why IMO he was as good or better than some of the others. Before we pass judgment on him, let's see how he does. He has all the tangibles to be a successful WR.

 

The number you hope from Hardy are no better than Josh Reed's numbers. Hard to see DCs trembling in fear and changing their defenses over that type of production.

 

Make up whatever fantasy you want, but the reason none of the WR went in round 1, they have all serious flaws in their game.

 

Hardy has problems with the jam and getting separation, not to mention questions about his character.

 

Hard to see how he will perform better than 90% of drafted WRs who take 3 years before they adjust to the NFL>

[krazykat]

And since he'll be the #2 WR, he won't be going against an opponent's best CB. The stuff about beating the jam is hogwash. Receivers much smaller than Hardy have learned to beat it. And again if Hardy allegedly couldn't get separation in college, how'd he catch 191 passes? The opposing DB falling down all the time?

Hmmm! Good one Riddler.

 

I'm just gonna guess here by being a half-foot taller than everyone else. Now I realize that's a minor difference, just like when you play recreational basketball with someone 5 or 6 inches taller than you makes no difference, but that's my answer nonetheless.

 

Great question though, you sure know how to stump them, doncha!

[VOR]

Hmmm! Good one Riddler.

 

I'm just gonna guess here by being a half-foot taller than everyone else. Now I realize that's a minor difference, just like when you play recreational basketball with someone 5 or 6 inches taller than you makes no difference, but that's my answer nonetheless.

 

Great question though, you sure know how to stump them, doncha!

What do you think the average height for an NFL CB is? I'll give you a hint: it's 5'11". That's a half-foot shorter than Hardy. And most of the taller/more physical CB's aren't as fast as the shorter ones. If you're expecting Hardy to never get off the LOS and never get open, you're going to be pleasantly surprised, or disappointed, as the case may be.

[obie_wan]

What do you think the average height for an NFL CB is? I'll give you a hint: it's 5'11". That's a half-foot shorter than Hardy. And most of the taller/more physical CB's aren't as fast as the shorter ones. If you're expecting Hardy to never get off the LOS and never get open, you're going to be pleasantly surprised, or disappointed, as the case may be.

 

That's why the midget CB we drafted, Reggie Corner, was able to totally make Hardy disappear.

 

That's the main reason the Bils drafted Corener.

 

However, it does not say much for Hardy when he couldn't dominate with a 6-7 in height advantage.

[VOR]

That's why the midget CB we drafted, Reggie Corner, was able to totally make Hardy disappear.

 

That's the main reason the Bils drafted Corener.

 

However, it does not say much for Hardy when he couldn't dominate with a 6-7 in height advantage.

Well since you know so much about IU football, tell me about Hardy's O-line, QB, fellow offensive weapons, and OC? A WR relies on a lot more than just himself to "dominate."

 

And Corner "totally made Hardy disappear" with 4 catches for 65 yards and a TD? You realize that the Hoosiers won 41-24 and that Hardy's 65 yards were almost half of the total passing yards (137) that day, while the offense rushed for 338 net yards, right?

[Adam]

And since he'll be the #2 WR, he won't be going against an opponent's best CB. The stuff about beating the jam is hogwash. Receivers much smaller than Hardy have learned to beat it. And again if Hardy allegedly couldn't get separation in college, how'd he catch 191 passes? The opposing DB falling down all the time?

We will see if he starts out as the #2 WR. We may have whats his name out there to start the season- the punt returner.

[krazykat]

And krazykat, I'd like your opinion of Schonert's comments today concerning the use of ML in the passing game. He explains a number of things concerning the use of ML last year, or the lack thereof. The fact that ML is lining up as a receiver and will be used as an everydown back, sometimes paired with Fred Jackson on third down. The link is below.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6197

 

As to Schonert, I went back and looked at some of his comments concerning the use of the FB in the offense. He specifically stated that he wanted to use the FB primarily in the Redzone on running plays and sometimes as a diversion or short option close to the goal line. He never said he would use one every down.

 

Your comments about Schonert show that you have given up on the team before you have even seen what they can do. I think that is a bit overly pessimissitic. I prefer not to pass judgment on coaches or players until I've seen them in action. Perhaps you will turn out to be right, and if you are, we're in for a long season, and perhaps a long three seasons as a new staff is brought in and will have to rebuild. Before seeing such a dark and horrible football future for Buffalo, I prefer to wait and see what these players have. From what I've seen, they are doing the right things this offseason. You may disagree, but we wear different colored glasses.

 

Note: I like the signing of Williams. I think he is an important piece to the DL and should help to solidify that position going forward. He is one player that is certainly likely to benefit from Stroud's presence. Feel free to share your thoughts here too.

There are so many ways to go with this that I really don't even know where to begin.

 

First of all, keep in mind the source, Chris Brown and OBD. Haven't we as fans learned that what they tell us usually means nothing. I mean for how many years now under how many different OCs have we been told how the TE will be used more? Every year pretty much and we are still at the bottom of the league in terms of TE use from a passing perspective. That's just one of about a dozen things. The OL, "disruptive" D that is designed to generate sacks and such ridiculous pressuer that no offense can function properly, McGahee, Bledsoe, the Fairchild spread O, ...

 

Secondly, they said the same things last year and frankly, Fairchilds "Rams like" philosphy did that in St. Louis, so why didn't he last year? He said he would! Levy said he would! Jauron said he would! Are you absolutely certain that Jauron doens't play more of a role in this? IDK, just asking, but I do know that we were told that that was one of the biggest reasons why we liked Lynch was for that very reason, yet we didn't use him in that role in spite of directly stating that we would.

 

Third, don't you think that's one of the first things Ds look for on 3rd downs is the RB catching the ball out of the backfield? Because it is for RBs that do it. So simply stating that we will do that doesn't automatically propel this team into All-Pro offensive status as appears to be the underlying implication here. I mean how many teams do that and still suck too? Just because you "do that," doesn't mean that you do it well ax, just like so many other things.

 

Of course it will help as it will open up the alternatives for the offense. But it will not be the critical link that moves our offense from 32nd in efficiency to 10th.

 

And again, why didn't the team do what it said it would during the season in this way? And spare me the they just wanted him to get his feet wet stuff. Why didn't Jauron intervene as is his job and say "let's get Lynch involved more in the receiving game Steve!"

 

From the article:

 

"We held him back and Anthony Thomas handled more of the third down role in the beginning of the season because we didn't want to throw too much at (Lynch)," Schonert recalled.

 

The tough questions:

 

And whose brain child was it to use Anthony Thomas on 3rd-down passing situations, or even rushing situation, if you actually believe that? Did they really do that also? What in Thomas' background would lead you, much less them, to believe that he was even capable of being a successful 3rd-down RB? Shouldn't they be held accountable for such idiotic thinking? Jauron that is.

 

And why did they say that they would use Lynch in passing situation before the season began but then change their tune?

 

And, since you seem to gobble up everything that they try to force feed you from OBD, if that's true then why did Thomas only have 5 rushing attempts and 6 caught balls in 10 games played then on 3rd downs for about one touch per game in those situations? Does that match up with what Schonert just said? If not, then does this give you more confidence in Schonert, or less?

 

Lynch had 26 3rd-down carries and 4 receptions for 30 touches. Thomas had 5 carries and 6 receptions for 11 touches, and you believe Schonert's nonsense?

 

I mean come on here, does anyone here challenge what these morons say? They're like politicians trying to separate you from your money and protect their well paying jobs, funded by you.

 

This team has said so many things about the team over the last six or seven seasons, including the last two years under Jauron particularly, that haven't even come close to happening that they should have zero credibility left.

 

"I anticipate him being in on third down a lot more," said Schonert of Lynch. "He's had a year, he understands the protections now and I think this year he'll be an integral part of our third down package."

 

What do you mean "you anticipate" coach? Don't you know? Aren't you the one deciding this? If you're not 100% sure then don't say it!

 

Buffalo's offensive coordinator apparently agrees as Lynch caught several passes in the spring workouts and lined up wide on numerous occasions.

 

Oh boy, one more reason to get our hopes up.

 

And a little more of Lynch has never hurt an offense before, so expect Schonert to take advantage of a player that can truly be an every down talent.

 

Lynch can be all that and a bag of chips but I expect little from Schonert. He's never held this role, hasn't done well as a QB coach, has been bounced around more from team to team in the NFL, finally finding a home in Buffalo, LOL, than a cheap ho on Saturday night in the ghetto.

 

Anyway, I think this is part of the problem, too many people reading from OBD. Brown himself has even said openly that his hands are tied. Why anyone even respects what the guy writes is beyond me. He's the propaganda arm of the Bills, nothing more.

 

This team isn't going to succeed or fail ax because Lynch is catching balls, it's going to succeed or fail because Schonert knows what the hell he's doing or not, and saying things that any one of us could say because they make sense and really shouldn't say much about the coach saying them, rather should say little for last year's coaches that couldn't seem to figure out that this was a good idea then. It is also going to succeed or fail based on Edwards who has yet to do much of anything besides "be poised." If he's "poised" and loses, is "poised" and can't seem to lead the team to more than an offensive TD or two every game, is "poised" and can't throw TD passes more than every third game, then what Lynch does doesn't matter now, does it.

 

Here's what's going to happen this year:

 

Teams are going to stack the line against us. Why? For a bunch of reasons.

 

First, because last year we had one of the worst passing quarterbacks in the league on one of the worst passing offenses in the league and rarely put up passing TDs. That won't scare any opposing DC until proven otherwise.

 

Second, because Lynch is our primary weapon since we don't know what to do with Evans and Edwards hasn't proven that he can go deep anywhere near consistently enough to give opponents cause for leaving too many DBs back there. Even when Losman was in there with his deep to Evans throw opposing teams didn't respect out deep game all that much.

 

Third, because Schonert is an inexperienced rookie OC and will not be respected immediately. He will have to earn respect.

 

Fourth, because Jauron is also not respected nor should be.

 

Fifth, because our OL simply isn't that good.

 

Having said that, I'll save you a few steps in your next post;

 

I realize that Edwards is poised in spite of playing like crap last year and that he could explode this year.

 

I realize that Hardy's huge, had a great collegiate career, and is all but a zero risk prospect.

 

I realize that Lynch is about to explode in spite of, just like at the end of last season teams focusing on stopping our rushing game, the road to accomplishing that will be easy.

 

I realize that Schonert is no Fairchild and for that reason alone an excellent OC.

 

I realize that this team's performance has nothing to do with Jauron and therefore any insinuation that he can't win for reasons that, well, he rarely has, have no meaning.

 

I realize that Hardy is going to open things up so that Evans has a 1,500 yard, 15 TD season finally.

 

Etc., etc.., etc.

 

BUT, until all that happens, opponents are not going to respect our passing game, Edwards, Schonert, or Jauron. They will stack the box and try to shut down Lynch, just as you would if you were playing the Bills and you were a DC.

 

If and when we prove that we can overcome that, they will have to adjust, but not before that. Edwards will be tested, blitzed due to the number of players in the box, and will have to get rid of the ball quickly and limit his mistakes. The running lanes for Lynch will be tight.

 

And keep in mind that we were +9 in TOs last season, largely for reasons of fortune, not so much by design. In other words, we got lucky quite often. While that's good and you take what you can, we cannot assume that we will rank 4th in the league in TO ratio again.

 

So unless Edwards starts doing what he hasn't done, and very quickly, then I just don't see how this team's offense will be anything close to what you say, especially since we had the worst, meaning 32nd ranked, TD producing offense in the league last year and the worst red zone offense too.

 

So think what you want, but there's quite a bit that has to come together for this team's offense to be even an average one. As to the article, it's a bunch of rot by the "political wing" of OBD, nothing more. I'm surprised, and a little disappointed, that you even cited it.

 

Your comments about Schonert show that you have given up on the team before you have even seen what they can do. I think that is a bit overly pessimissitic. I prefer not to pass judgment on coaches or players until I've seen them in action. Perhaps you will turn out to be right, and if you are, we're in for a long season, and perhaps a long three seasons as a new staff is brought in and will have to rebuild. Before seeing such a dark and horrible football future for Buffalo, I prefer to wait and see what these players have. From what I've seen, they are doing the right things this offseason. You may disagree, but we wear different colored glasses.

 

OK, I'm not sure that you understand this.

 

I haven't given up on the team ax, it's given up on us!

 

When is the last time that we hired a decent coach? And I don't necessarily mean an expensive one, but one that believes that the lines must be solid to succeed first and foremoset? How about an experienced coordinator? Why aren't the guys that have produced drafts that have barely left us with any long-term players and far more disappointments than successes held accountable and fired and replaced? Why is it that this team has barely paid much attention to the OL? Why do they keep overpaying mediocre players then either causing us to sell the farm to sign the better ones or watch them leave the team? Why is it that this team does everything by hype and not by solidly run football decision making?

 

Otherwise, what I hope for is unattainable given the way these clowns run this team. What I hope for is what got in the days of Kelly, Bruce, and Thurman. Plus a SB of course. But that's not going to happen the way we are running things. If you want to believe it is, then great.

 

I don't say what I hope will happen ax, I say what I see happening and after breaking it all down myself and by comparing to what I know about football without my fan bias involved. You and others can't seem to separate yourself from that however.

 

If Edwards plays like a champ this year then I will have to tell myself that my assessments were off, way off. But I'm telling you now that by midseason you too will have seen enough of him. I've seen QB and paid attention to it for decades around the NFL and nothing that I've seen from Edwards, absolutely nothing, is indicative that he's anything but a bust or extremely low end backup in the making including his time at Stanford where once again, not his lack of production against anything but low-end Ds led the way, but more excuses as to why he wasn't productive.

 

As to Schonert, he wasn't a good QB coach and just because he says a few things that any fan with a basic knowledge of football could say, does not mean that he's going to be good and finally prove that he's an above average coach in spite of the fact that you have already convinced yourself that he has.

 

Also, look at the official site and tell me, what was Schonert doing in 2002? 2004?

 

Why was he only with the Panthers, Giants, and Saints for one year each in '01, '03, and '05?

 

Do you have answers to that, and good ones that don't suggest that he sucks?

 

And naturally he ends up on the Bills after that with the team talking about all the experience he brings to the table. And he's done such a marvelous job with Losman and Edwards too leaving us hovering at or near the bottom of the stack offensively as a direct result of the position that he's coached. Yeah, what a great choice for OC!

 

It's gonna take more than what we've put on the table in the offseason to avoid disaster from the offensive side of things again this year. And again, even if we double our offensive TD production, double it ax, we would have ranked 11th offensively last year. Now how confident are you that our offensive production will double?

 

I'm thinking that given the few changes on O and the completely mystery meat nature to all the most critical ones, that if we can add 50% to our offensive TD production it should be considered a good thing, and that if that happens, we'll play O such that we would have ranked 21st last year in O TDs. Unfortunately our defense isn't going to improve by that much that it propels us into the playoffs otherwise.

 

But here's a question for you;

 

At what point do you draw the line with:

 

Jauron?

 

Schonert?

 

Edwards?

 

The personnel staff that has conducted our drafts since Donahoe's management?

[krazykat]

What do you think the average height for an NFL CB is? I'll give you a hint: it's 5'11". That's a half-foot shorter than Hardy. And most of the taller/more physical CB's aren't as fast as the shorter ones. If you're expecting Hardy to never get off the LOS and never get open, you're going to be pleasantly surprised, or disappointed, as the case may be.

Probably true, and they're not that much better than the collegiate ones either on teams like Akron and Indiana St.

 

That's also why guys like Matt Jones whose an inch taller than Hardy and did more in college is the league's leading WR right now.

 

I'm sorry, I was wrong all along.

 

Note to self: What was I thinking!

[Adam]

Krazykat.....where do I start with that war and peace excerpt. Lynch is the one who has to earn respect- the OC doesn't know how much he'll be in on third downs based on LOUSY PERFORMANCE. He couldn't have blocked me last year, much less a blitzing linebacker. Thomas was better than any running back we had in picking up the blitz, which isn't really a tough thing to do.

 

Yes, we should respect Jauron- he's been here two years, which isn't a lot of time to accomplish anything with a team thats on par with the Arizona Cardinals. Did you know that the Browns have made playoffs more recently than the Bills- but thats Jauron's fault, of course. He should be respected just for sticking it out with one of the worst franchises in pro sports. And oh, the wonderful, knowledgeable fans in that area....the fans that think that a roscoe is comparable to Wes Welker- the top receiver in the league- oh, of course- he is wonderful. He is just being held back because the OC has a vendetta against him for some reason or other. Oh, and those same fans demand that the QB is changed every so often- God forbid those fans should become board. Hey, why not have clowns runnning around in the stands, twisting balloons into the shape of animals.

 

And no, we should not believe what comes out of One Bills Drive, we should all listen to the buffoons on WGR55, who aren't even allowed to give their own opinions. We should all be idiots and listen to mindless talk radio, because if it is negative, it must be right.

 

I am waiting for more calls for Jim Kelly to be our offensive coordinator- maybe he could teach our players to read defenses better.

 

OK, I feel much better now

[VOR]

Probably true, and they're not that much better than the collegiate ones either on teams like Akron and Indiana St.

 

That's also why guys like Matt Jones whose an inch taller than Hardy and did more in college is the league's leading WR right now.

 

I'm sorry, I was wrong all along.

 

Note to self: What was I thinking!

Okay, since you allege that Jones "did more in college" than Hardy, please post Jones' WR stats at Arkansas and compare them to Hardy's stats at IU, and then you'll know what you were thinking. Or more precisely, that you weren't.

[ax4782]

Krazykat, I will refrain from quoting your entire sermon for the sake of saving space. I will also say that I agree with much of what Adam said in response. As to your comments, there's just a few points I'd like to make.

 

As to TE: I used to play the QB position. Not in the NFL, but enough to know the necessaries of the position. It's difficult, making decisions is hard and staying poised when guys who outweigh you by thirty or forty pounds are on you in less than five seconds. Frankly, I trust Bill Walsh's statements and observations about the guy more than your Monday Morning QB armchair analysis. Poise is the one thing that you CAN'T teach a QB at the NFL level. You either have it or you don't. He has the mechanics, and a fast accurate release. What's the problem? The guy was a rookie and we've been over this. You are counting him out before he's even played a down this year. You can try and equivocate that as much as you want.

 

As to my "fan bias": I wasn't the one who was quoting Schonert when it was convenient after Viti was let go. And frankly that statement of yours was a misquote of what Schonert said. Frankly, your arguments make my point even more strongly. We don't know what Schonert is going to do, so all we can go on is what he says. And he is right about Lynch. HE COULDN'T BLOCK A MIDGET last year on third down. Since we were in passing situations on almost every third down last year, you need a guy who could block. Your statistical representations are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Those touches that Lynch had were almost always in 3rd and 1 situations, where it makes sense to use him.

 

I understand that you are upset with the FO and the coaches and the coordinators. But you are wrong about the team's spending habits.

 

First, they just invested over 75 Mil last year in the OL to get above average talent across the line. They signed two quality starters and two decent back ups. Dockery, Walker, Whittle and Chambers. Then, they gave Peters and extension and signed Butler to an 18.8 million dollar extension. Peters is set to get another, much bigger extension this year as well. That's over 100 mil that the FO will have shelled out to improve the offensive line, and your statement that they are terrible just doesn't add up to the facts as seen in their statistics. You can make up every reason to say that those stats are wrong, but hey, that's what your getting mad at me for doing to your stats so, touche. How again is the FO "ignoring the lines" and "not trying to improve the OL?" That's just ridiculous.

 

As for the DL, I say the same thing. They bring in a solid DT in Stroud to shore things up. They sign Williams to a decent extension, McCargo is beginning to play better. They sign Spencer Johnson to help in the rotation, they draft Chris Ellis, the signed Schobel and Kelsay to extensions to make sure that they don't bolt to higher paying waters. They sign a run stuffing line backer in Mitchell to help along the D-Front. All of that adds up to almost 100 mil. How exactly is the team not investing in the lines. This is a complete myth that is impossible to substantiate.

 

As for Schonert saying that he anticipates that Lynch will be in more on third down and somehow that means there is a question as to the game plan because Jauron is messing things up, is just nonsense. I expect the OC to NOT GIVE AWAY exactly what he is going to do. Also, who knows, what happens if Lynch gets hurt. Well, he won't be playing on third downs at all will he? So saying that Lynch will absolutely, without question be in on third down every time, as perhaps you would like, is both irresponsible coaching and just dumb. Lord only knows what is going to happen in terms of injuries, so please stop reading all this Jauron-conservative conspiracy nonsense into statements made by any coach on the team.

 

As for my being "force fed"everything from OBD and believing what they say, I think you're going across the line on that one. I wasn't saying that I completely believe everything that comes out of the place. There's almost as much politics in Football FOs as in D.C. What I wanted was for you to look at what Schonert was saying, and, if he does what he says concerning Lynch, whether that was a solid start for this football team. You decided to turn it into a personal attack and diatribe against a person who was trying to engage you in a discussion. Sorry it pushed your buttons, but resorting to childish attacks is completely unnecessary.

 

Also, you keep referring to the fact that the changes we have made aren't going to turn us into a top ten offense. I never said we would be, nor do I expect such a result. I do, however, think they will get us into the mid to upper twenties, and with a solid defensive effort, that should be good enough to win 9 or 10 games this season. See, you expect the team to jump from none to the top in one season. Your expectations are just too high. Buffalo could have signed every expensive free agent available and they still likely wouldn't be able to win more than 11 games. Building a team takes time, and this new staff hasn't exactly had a lot of that. Yet, the team has improved under Jauron's leadership from where it was under Williams and Mularkey. That's something that only a blind person would fail to recognize.

 

As to the FO letting all this talent go, you really wanted to sign Clements to a 8 yr 80 mil contract? Please, he wasn't worth that and you know it. Other than that, what talent has THIS FO sent packing since the new coaching staff came. Eric Moulds? Please, he wanted way too much money for his age. At best he was a number two receiver on this team after 2005. Who else? Winfield was gone long ago and wasn't worth the money he wanted either. Minnesota is finding that out. He is solid, but overpaid. Where is all this talent supposedly leaking out on this team. McGahee? I think he was overrated and our rookie RB outplayed him in three fewer appearances. So where is this talent leak that you keep talking about. I think your generally pessimistic view of this team comes from the same disappointment we all have. You are just choosing to take a harder look at all the negatives. Nothing wrong with that. I choose to focus on the possibilities I see with this team. And frankly, that might make me a bit more disappointed when the season is half-way over. Then again, maybe not. Maybe you'll have to find some more reasons for why they suck, even if they are say, 6-2 or 5-3.

[krazykat]

Krazykat.....where do I start with that war and peace excerpt. Lynch is the one who has to earn respect- the OC doesn't know how much he'll be in on third downs based on LOUSY PERFORMANCE. He couldn't have blocked me last year, much less a blitzing linebacker. Thomas was better than any running back we had in picking up the blitz, which isn't really a tough thing to do.

 

Yes, we should respect Jauron- he's been here two years, which isn't a lot of time to accomplish anything with a team thats on par with the Arizona Cardinals. Did you know that the Browns have made playoffs more recently than the Bills- but thats Jauron's fault, of course. He should be respected just for sticking it out with one of the worst franchises in pro sports. And oh, the wonderful, knowledgeable fans in that area....the fans that think that a roscoe is comparable to Wes Welker- the top receiver in the league- oh, of course- he is wonderful. He is just being held back because the OC has a vendetta against him for some reason or other. Oh, and those same fans demand that the QB is changed every so often- God forbid those fans should become board. Hey, why not have clowns runnning around in the stands, twisting balloons into the shape of animals.

 

And no, we should not believe what comes out of One Bills Drive, we should all listen to the buffoons on WGR55, who aren't even allowed to give their own opinions. We should all be idiots and listen to mindless talk radio, because if it is negative, it must be right.

 

I am waiting for more calls for Jim Kelly to be our offensive coordinator- maybe he could teach our players to read defenses better.

 

OK, I feel much better now

In order:

 

Lynch was 80% of our offense and the single consistent component of it. It's not even debatable. Yes he had his issues and I don't disagree with you on where he must improve, but he had success in there as an offensive weapon even on 3rd downs. Why they didn't use him more, even according to Schonert, had little if anything to do with performance rather than Lynch because according to Schonert they "didn't want to throw too much to Lynch."

 

Either way, if you say that Lynch has all that to prove, you've even dashed my hopes. Is he great? No, but he was a consistent hard runner.

 

I can't tell if you're serious with this post or not, but Jauron's record speaks for itself.

 

Kelly might not be a much better a coach than what we've had. It would be a decision based primarily on nostalgia.

[krazykat]

Okay, since you allege that Jones "did more in college" than Hardy, please post Jones' WR stats at Arkansas and compare them to Hardy's stats at IU, and then you'll know what you were thinking. Or more precisely, that you weren't.

Don't try to red herring this please. You know full well what I meant. I didn't say "receiving" stats. Also, please learn to recognize sarcasm.

 

I can tell you that they weren't writing things like this on Hardy;

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/20...QB-Arkansas.htm

 

I think you know what I'm trying to say but aren't coming clean.

 

Look, it's really simple here, really. Just go look at all the top WRs drafted every year on day one. Then count them up, then find out how many actually step up to do what their draft positions hopes that they should. Then run the simply ratio of those that succeed to those in total. That gives you a percentage of those that do.

 

Then you can, yes, you can, assume that the odds of the guy that you drafted fits that pattern.

 

Except here of course where the opinions of those that have been wrong every year trump any data out there.

 

If you're willing to wager even money that Hardy put up at least 500 yards and 5 TDs, on this team, then you're foolish. Plain and simple. Can it happen? Sure it can, but the odds are against it. The odds are even less than that b/c our offense sucks. It's one thing for a WR to go to a team like Indy and succeed like Gonzalez, but it's another altogether to have one come to the Bills and succeed.

[krazykat]

Krazykat, I will refrain from quoting your entire sermon for the sake of saving space. I will also say that I agree with much of what Adam said in response. As to your comments, there's just a few points I'd like to make.

 

As to TE: I used to play the QB position. Not in the NFL, but enough to know the necessaries of the position. It's difficult, making decisions is hard and staying poised when guys who outweigh you by thirty or forty pounds are on you in less than five seconds. Frankly, I trust Bill Walsh's statements and observations about the guy more than your Monday Morning QB armchair analysis. Poise is the one thing that you CAN'T teach a QB at the NFL level. You either have it or you don't. He has the mechanics, and a fast accurate release. What's the problem? The guy was a rookie and we've been over this. You are counting him out before he's even played a down this year. You can try and equivocate that as much as you want.

 

As to my "fan bias": I wasn't the one who was quoting Schonert when it was convenient after Viti was let go. And frankly that statement of yours was a misquote of what Schonert said. Frankly, your arguments make my point even more strongly. We don't know what Schonert is going to do, so all we can go on is what he says. And he is right about Lynch. HE COULDN'T BLOCK A MIDGET last year on third down. Since we were in passing situations on almost every third down last year, you need a guy who could block. Your statistical representations are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Those touches that Lynch had were almost always in 3rd and 1 situations, where it makes sense to use him.

 

I understand that you are upset with the FO and the coaches and the coordinators. But you are wrong about the team's spending habits.

 

First, they just invested over 75 Mil last year in the OL to get above average talent across the line. They signed two quality starters and two decent back ups. Dockery, Walker, Whittle and Chambers. Then, they gave Peters and extension and signed Butler to an 18.8 million dollar extension. Peters is set to get another, much bigger extension this year as well. That's over 100 mil that the FO will have shelled out to improve the offensive line, and your statement that they are terrible just doesn't add up to the facts as seen in their statistics. You can make up every reason to say that those stats are wrong, but hey, that's what your getting mad at me for doing to your stats so, touche. How again is the FO "ignoring the lines" and "not trying to improve the OL?" That's just ridiculous.

 

As for the DL, I say the same thing. They bring in a solid DT in Stroud to shore things up. They sign Williams to a decent extension, McCargo is beginning to play better. They sign Spencer Johnson to help in the rotation, they draft Chris Ellis, the signed Schobel and Kelsay to extensions to make sure that they don't bolt to higher paying waters. They sign a run stuffing line backer in Mitchell to help along the D-Front. All of that adds up to almost 100 mil. How exactly is the team not investing in the lines. This is a complete myth that is impossible to substantiate.

 

As for Schonert saying that he anticipates that Lynch will be in more on third down and somehow that means there is a question as to the game plan because Jauron is messing things up, is just nonsense. I expect the OC to NOT GIVE AWAY exactly what he is going to do. Also, who knows, what happens if Lynch gets hurt. Well, he won't be playing on third downs at all will he? So saying that Lynch will absolutely, without question be in on third down every time, as perhaps you would like, is both irresponsible coaching and just dumb. Lord only knows what is going to happen in terms of injuries, so please stop reading all this Jauron-conservative conspiracy nonsense into statements made by any coach on the team.

 

As for my being "force fed"everything from OBD and believing what they say, I think you're going across the line on that one. I wasn't saying that I completely believe everything that comes out of the place. There's almost as much politics in Football FOs as in D.C. What I wanted was for you to look at what Schonert was saying, and, if he does what he says concerning Lynch, whether that was a solid start for this football team. You decided to turn it into a personal attack and diatribe against a person who was trying to engage you in a discussion. Sorry it pushed your buttons, but resorting to childish attacks is completely unnecessary.

 

Also, you keep referring to the fact that the changes we have made aren't going to turn us into a top ten offense. I never said we would be, nor do I expect such a result. I do, however, think they will get us into the mid to upper twenties, and with a solid defensive effort, that should be good enough to win 9 or 10 games this season. See, you expect the team to jump from none to the top in one season. Your expectations are just too high. Buffalo could have signed every expensive free agent available and they still likely wouldn't be able to win more than 11 games. Building a team takes time, and this new staff hasn't exactly had a lot of that. Yet, the team has improved under Jauron's leadership from where it was under Williams and Mularkey. That's something that only a blind person would fail to recognize.

 

As to the FO letting all this talent go, you really wanted to sign Clements to a 8 yr 80 mil contract? Please, he wasn't worth that and you know it. Other than that, what talent has THIS FO sent packing since the new coaching staff came. Eric Moulds? Please, he wanted way too much money for his age. At best he was a number two receiver on this team after 2005. Who else? Winfield was gone long ago and wasn't worth the money he wanted either. Minnesota is finding that out. He is solid, but overpaid. Where is all this talent supposedly leaking out on this team. McGahee? I think he was overrated and our rookie RB outplayed him in three fewer appearances. So where is this talent leak that you keep talking about. I think your generally pessimistic view of this team comes from the same disappointment we all have. You are just choosing to take a harder look at all the negatives. Nothing wrong with that. I choose to focus on the possibilities I see with this team. And frankly, that might make me a bit more disappointed when the season is half-way over. Then again, maybe not. Maybe you'll have to find some more reasons for why they suck, even if they are say, 6-2 or 5-3.

Agree with Adam all you want. I'm pretty sure he was being facetious. Otherwise, believe that the sun rises in the West for all I care.

 

Trust Walsh all you want too. Did you trust his similar assessment of Rick Mirer? I trust that you did, and I held a similar view of Mirer back then. So go ahead, but w/o further data, I'm 1-0, Walsh is 0-1. Otherwise only a fool believes that any coach or GM is right all the time. If Polian or AJ Smith, two former GMs summarily dismissed by Wilson, then perhaps I'd be inclined to believe it. But oh, wait, we've really done a grand job of seeing to it that not only hire, but retain top GM talent, right? Fits right in with your shoddy attempt at a rebuttal to that.

 

Your discussion of spending completely ignores what I said so I won't comment. Let's just say that "better" and "improvement" aren't better and improved simply because someone tells you that it's that way.

 

And honestly, many people here are so far in the weeds on the rest of this stuff that what's next, a discussion about how they got a new equipment guy and how how they keep up the equipment will really add to the morale. I am speaking somewhat generally and not entirely to you.

 

You guys microanalyze everything irrelevant and don't at all even moderately analyze the relevant.

 

As to my "fan bias": I wasn't the one who was quoting Schonert when it was convenient after Viti was let go.

 

I quoted it because someone stated Viti's presence on this team as one of the big parts of this year's success. Convenience has nothing to do with it. The point was, since you obviously missed it, what happens now with this "beast" Viti not here to help us improve as this person suggested. Perhaps it was you, don't know, don't care. But be fair please. I view that as more a personal insult than your thin-skinned objection to my suggesting that you gobbled up the spoon-fed stuff in an article that you sent me and cited specifically to rebut my argument. What should I assume, that you used it to argue your point but don't agree with it? Please!

 

Yet, the team has improved under Jauron's leadership from where it was under Williams and Mularkey. That's something that only a blind person would fail to recognize.

 

In terms of what? Our QB situation is worse. Our passing offense is then correspondingly worse. We're not getting any better production from our RBs, still less than we did with Henry. We haven't posted at least one winning season yet like we did under Donahoe. The defense isn't any better either. And this all makes it such that "only a blind person would fail to recognize improvement?"

 

Sure! Gotcha!

 

As to the FO letting all this talent go, you really wanted to sign Clements to a 8 yr 80 mil contract? Please, he wasn't worth that and you know it. Other than that, what talent has THIS FO sent packing since the new coaching staff came. Eric Moulds? Please, he wanted way too much money for his age. At best he was a number two receiver on this team after 2005. Who else? Winfield was gone long ago and wasn't worth the money he wanted either. Minnesota is finding that out. He is solid, but overpaid. Where is all this talent supposedly leaking out on this team. McGahee? I think he was overrated and our rookie RB outplayed him in three fewer appearances. So where is this talent leak that you keep talking about. I think your generally pessimistic view of this team comes from the same disappointment we all have. You are just choosing to take a harder look at all the negatives. Nothing wrong with that. I choose to focus on the possibilities I see with this team. And frankly, that might make me a bit more disappointed when the season is half-way over. Then again, maybe not. Maybe you'll have to find some more reasons for why they suck, even if they are say, 6-2 or 5-3.

 

Again, you are extremely one-dimensional in your analysis.

 

Where was the focus on the lines all those years? We pretty much signed washed up vets and ignored our best players. (Pat Williams)

 

When we did focus on the DL we got Ron Edwards, Justin Bannan who I think we traded up for, Tim Andersen whom everyone raved about as a steal, Williams and McCargo, without a proven starter in the bunch. We sure haven't gotten even one close to impact player there. Meanwhile we've drafted skill position players like they're going out of style.

 

Our solutions for the OL are all players that got far more than they were worth on the market otherwise. It's not how much you spend as I've tried to tell you, but what you get for what you do spend. And if you have $30 and spend 28 of it, then you only have two bucks left and can't get much for it.

 

These boards have gone through this since they've been in existence on an annual basis. Why it's different this year I don't get. We agree on McGahee, but this FO picked him!

 

I'm not "choosing to look harder at the negatives." For a team that hasn't done anything in years except when the schedule's been easier, I think that it's hilarious that you would even suggest that. If anything you're "choosing to look harder at the positives" which is the default position during the offseason anyway, much more so here. Pretty funny though.

 

I'll tell you what though, at the end of the season when I'm more accurate than you are, you and others still won't give me the time of day and say, 'Yeah, he was right." You'll just come up with more of the same.

 

When Jauron gets fired you may say he sucked but you won't humble yourself and say, "Hey, maybe we ought to listen to the people that said Jauron would suck, Levy wouldn't do anything substantial, that Gilbride was a horrible hire and that we were stupid for hiring Donahoe." You will just make more excuses and dig into the weeds with more red herring distractions.

 

It's like that every year here. And honestly, if there are fans that discuss this year that to take pleasure in the team performing poorly, it's to shut up quite a few people with egos the size of the Grand Canyon here and not because they want their team to do poorly.

 

The fact of the matter is that it's not that difficult to succeed in the NFL if you adhere to all but formula driven tenets.

 

First, build two solid lines.

 

Second, have a vision and plan for it all to come together at some singular point in time.

 

Third, draft accordingly and get your FAs accordingly.

 

If you ignore the first it doesn't matter what happens with the second.

 

If you don't have the second, then hire people that do, and not just in words on paper, but really.

 

If you don't have the third, ditto there, find some people that do.

 

We don't have any of them. Our OL is not nearly as good as many here think. It's extremely mediocre on the best of days. Our DL has issues too and pending how Stroud looks is in TBD status. Even if Stroud is all that, he's at the beginning of his back-nine as well so there's little future utility and diminishing utility also.

 

We have no viable vision that's verifiable or articulated. And what "vision" we do have revolves around trivial things such as using a FB or including some deeper pass plays as part of the effective playbook as if those are some sort of brilliant deduction and deserving of some intellectual award somewhere.

 

Our personnel office has produced little if much in the way of impact talent on their watch with pretty much most of the players that they've brought on from the '05 draft and FAcy either a distant memory or all but gone. I know, I know, last year's rookie class is gonna step up. Sure.

 

I mean there's a reason why we're O/U 7.5 in Vegas!

 

I would love to wager with some of you people. It would be like fishing at a fish hatchery.

[VOR]

Don\'t try to red herring this please. You know full well what I meant. I didn't say "receiving" stats. Also, please learn to recognize sarcasm.

 

I can tell you that they weren't writing things like this on Hardy;

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/20...QB-Arkansas.htm

 

I think you know what I'm trying to say but aren\'t coming clean.

Sorry krazykat, but I have NO idea what you meant and/or were trying to say. You see, I could give a rip what Jones did in college as a QB, or how highly touted he was as a WR prospect in the NFL, when he\'d never played WR in college or even high school. You see, he couldn't even have been considered as good a prospect as Mike Mamula, because Mamula at least played DE in college before wowing scouts at the Combine and tricking the Eagles into drafting him in the 1st round. The Jags took a gamble and lose-out big-time, because among other things, Jones doesn't have the skills to play WR, and doesn't have the heart or desire to excel in the pros. His situation has no similarity to Hardy's, except for his height.

 

Look, it's really simple here, really. Just go look at all the top WRs drafted every year on day one. Then count them up, then find out how many actually step up to do what their draft positions hopes that they should. Then run the simply ratio of those that succeed to those in total. That gives you a percentage of those that do.

 

Then you can, yes, you can, assume that the odds of the guy that you drafted fits that pattern.

I'd say that "simple" is the key word here. The percentages in and of themselves mean nothing. For the Chiefs last year, the percentages were 100% with Bowe when all was said and done. Same for a bunch of other teams, depending on what you consider "succeeding" as a #2 rookie WR.

 

Except here of course where the opinions of those that have been wrong every year trump any data out there.

Had I been here last year, I would have said that failing to address the #2 WR spot was a mistake. And it was. Price was on his last legs in 2006, although he was still the best #2 WR on the team, and then he got hurt. Reed, Parrish, an the rest are not #2 WR\'s.

 

If you're willing to wager even money that Hardy put up at least 500 yards and 5 TDs, on this team, then you're foolish. Plain and simple. Can it happen? Sure it can, but the odds are against it. The odds are even less than that b/c our offense sucks. It's one thing for a WR to go to a team like Indy and succeed like Gonzalez, but it's another altogether to have one come to the Bills and succeed.

I\'d bet good money on Hardy getting 500 yards and 5 TD's this year. But since I doubt anyone will take my bet, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[ax4782]

Actually, I thought TD was a horrible hire at the time based on his performance in the past and his terrible handling of the FO in Pittsburgh, and Gilbride was way overrated. I believed those things at the time. So please, don't lump me in with those always sunny people. I have also stated that I think this year is make or break for Jauron. I don't think that means they have to make the playoffs, but they do have to get better. If they don't win 9 games, I think Jauron's time is done. I personally think he is a decent coach.

 

And if you are right at the end of the season, and TE sucked and the whole team sucked and on and on, I'll be the first one to say, you called it and I was wrong. I don't make excuses for bad players or bad coaches. What I have repeatedly said was that Jauron hasn't been here long enough for me to determine whether he will be good or not. I do know that I'm sick and tired of seeing a new coaching staff come in every three years and have to start "rebuilding" based on some new scheme. I would disagree that Levy did nothing. He changed the attitude, IMO, of the people at OBD, and started a move in a positive direction. Buffalo had neglected the D for a long time before Marv came in and started focusing on positions where we needed young talent. No he wasn't perfect, but he didn't just DO NOTHING as you suggested. You keep making this into some sort of personal attack and I don't understand why. You have your opinion and I have mine. Just because we disagree on the direction of the team this season is no reason to get angry.

 

The fact is, and I'll say it again, if you turn out to be right, I'll be the first one to point it out. If I'm right, and the team excels, are you going to do the same thing, or will you only continue to find reasons to say the team is terrible and Jauron needs to go because it was only a fluke?

[krazykat]

Actually, I thought TD was a horrible hire at the time based on his performance in the past and his terrible handling of the FO in Pittsburgh, and Gilbride was way overrated. I believed those things at the time. So please, don't lump me in with those always sunny people. I have also stated that I think this year is make or break for Jauron. I don't think that means they have to make the playoffs, but they do have to get better. If they don't win 9 games, I think Jauron's time is done. I personally think he is a decent coach.

 

And if you are right at the end of the season, and TE sucked and the whole team sucked and on and on, I'll be the first one to say, you called it and I was wrong. I don't make excuses for bad players or bad coaches. What I have repeatedly said was that Jauron hasn't been here long enough for me to determine whether he will be good or not. I do know that I'm sick and tired of seeing a new coaching staff come in every three years and have to start "rebuilding" based on some new scheme. I would disagree that Levy did nothing. He changed the attitude, IMO, of the people at OBD, and started a move in a positive direction. Buffalo had neglected the D for a long time before Marv came in and started focusing on positions where we needed young talent. No he wasn't perfect, but he didn't just DO NOTHING as you suggested. You keep making this into some sort of personal attack and I don't understand why. You have your opinion and I have mine. Just because we disagree on the direction of the team this season is no reason to get angry.

 

The fact is, and I'll say it again, if you turn out to be right, I'll be the first one to point it out. If I'm right, and the team excels, are you going to do the same thing, or will you only continue to find reasons to say the team is terrible and Jauron needs to go because it was only a fluke?

In order of paragraph;

 

1. Fair enough!

 

2. "Positive attitude" only goes so far. It does not overcome poor fundamental make up. As to Jauron, we also have five years with the Bears to look at and half a season in Detroit as the team's main man. All pretty much stamped with a big fat F.

 

3. Yes, of course I'll do the same thing. And for the record, I think that Lynch is good, just perhaps not great as some here seem to think he is. But that's about the extent of it.

 

Otherwise I apologize to you b/c these things turn into a mob gang beating at times and you're one of the more reasonable people here it seems. It's tough when your fending off multiple shots from different angles, difficult to keep straight who said what without going back over the threads. I barely have time or desire to post these.

 

Otherwise, FWIW or for some others, here's what Fanball has to say about Hardy and his signing:

 

Jul 03, 2008 09:27 AM CDT

Parameters for Hardy deal in place

The News

With the signing of Matt Forte by the Chicago Bears, the Buffalo Bills have the salary parameters in place to work on a deal for James Hardy, according to BuffaloBills.com. Forte was taken three spots ahead of Hardy in the draft.

Our View

Rookie wide receivers generally struggle in the NFL, so anybody taking a flyer on Hardy in fantasy drafts should keep that in mind. However, signing a deal without missing training camp would only help his cause.

 

Which more or less supports my entire position.

[ax4782]

In order of paragraph;

 

1. Fair enough!

 

2. "Positive attitude" only goes so far. It does not overcome poor fundamental make up. As to Jauron, we also have five years with the Bears to look at and half a season in Detroit as the team's main man. All pretty much stamped with a big fat F.

 

3. Yes, of course I'll do the same thing. And for the record, I think that Lynch is good, just perhaps not great as some here seem to think he is. But that's about the extent of it.

 

Otherwise I apologize to you b/c these things turn into a mob gang beating at times and you're one of the more reasonable people here it seems. It's tough when your fending off multiple shots from different angles, difficult to keep straight who said what without going back over the threads. I barely have time or desire to post these.

 

Otherwise, FWIW or for some others, here's what Fanball has to say about Hardy and his signing:

 

Jul 03, 2008 09:27 AM CDT

Parameters for Hardy deal in place

The News

With the signing of Matt Forte by the Chicago Bears, the Buffalo Bills have the salary parameters in place to work on a deal for James Hardy, according to BuffaloBills.com. Forte was taken three spots ahead of Hardy in the draft.

Our View

Rookie wide receivers generally struggle in the NFL, so anybody taking a flyer on Hardy in fantasy drafts should keep that in mind. However, signing a deal without missing training camp would only help his cause.

 

Which more or less supports my entire position.

 

Fair enough, and for the record, I see your points. I really do. And I understand the mob mentality that goes on as well. You certainly are a reasonable poster and I respect your view point, though I don't necessarily agree with it. As to Hardy, I do agree with you to some extent. I don't think he is going to have a "MONSTER" season of say 80-1100-12 or anything like that. I do think he could have something in the range of 40-650-6, which would help the offense. It isn't his sheer "awesomeness" that I think is going to help the passing game. His size allows him to be a big problem for defenses in the redzone and over the middle. If nothing else, that should help Evans on some plays to get single coverage looks. If Josh reed and Hardy can combine for 90 catches, which I think is possible, if not a bit optimistic, they should be enough together to get Evans some help. Like I said, I don't see us going from last to top ten in one year. I do think that there is enough offensive talent to get us into the mid 20s, say which keeps us competitive week in and week out. This is NOT going to be one of those GREAT seasons in team history, but, we could make a 10-6 mark and potentially sneak into the final wildcard spot with a bit of luck.