Scouts Inc. Fantasy O-Line rankings

[Adam]

How do you know we're making progress? It's not being manifested in our records.

 

What do we want out of a coach? How about strategy and game plans that see to it that our team wins in the trenches and can move the ball and put it across the goal line like we should. Call me crazy.

 

And you say we're making progress. I mean to you being dead F last in the NFL in offensive scoring with a defense ranking almost that low is "making progress?"

 

I have no idea what "good" is in your mind, but if that's "making progress" then your standards are ridiculously low.

 

And you say the players are "playing hard" for Jauron. Other than being just another cliche, what you're saying is that they play hard and still lose and can't move the ball or stop opposing offenses.

 

I mean listen to what you're actually saying here. You sound like one of those guys on the Sunday football shows just blathering on to keep the audience's interest. It makes no sense whatsoever when weighed against the facts though.

We are improving in various aspects of the game. Stats won't show it, but I believe that our special teams have not peaked yet. We may have the best kicking game in the league. As far as pursuit, other coaches in the NFL said that our defense is the best they've seen in that aspect.

 

Various aspects of our offense have improved, although things have not come together yet.

 

They are playing hard for Jauron- they gave up on Mularkey, big difference.

 

As far as game planning, it will help when our coaches can stop needing to game plan around our talent level, and other coaches have to start. I don't blame our front office just yet, as I already cited many blunders by previous GM's that we still haven't recovered from.

 

I think what people REALLY don't like about Jauron is that he isn't a dominant personality and doesn't yell or scream. Many coaches with his demeanor have won before- Bill Walsh and George Seifert as prime examples. He lets the team speak for him and he is a great delegator. If Schoenert pan out, the improvement will continue.

[VOR]

He got the new contract as a RT?, no? I don't remember. Either way, now is the time to lock him up.

Yeah, he got it prior to 2006. He played RT for more than half of 2005 and almost half of 2006 before switching to LT.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I think what people REALLY don't like about Jauron is that he isn't a dominant personality and doesn't yell or scream. Many coaches with his demeanor have won before- Bill Walsh and George Seifert as prime examples. He lets the team speak for him and he is a great delegator. If Schoenert pan out, the improvement will continue.

I think it is simpler than that. Jauron just doesn't win football games.

 

Walsh revolutionized the game of football and had one of the most pervasive and extensive impacts on the game of football as anyone has ever had. Jauron is a grain of sand compared to that mountain.

[34-78-83]

Still trying to understand how with a pro-bowl LT and 2 other OL who you deem to be very good players, our offense was able to finish in the bottom 3 in most offense categories.

 

Although the scapegoat is Fairchild, seems to me the OL did not perform as advertised.

 

I'm not sure what was advertised I guess...

Other thoughts:

Some of it is a comparison to previous Bills lines (as I mentioned since '96).

Some of it was an offense with musical Qb's

Some of it was an NFL offensive coordinator who didn't allow audibles.

Some of it was that they still need to improve in the run blocking department.

Some of it was no # 2 threat at WR and no threat in the red zone.

Some of it was that I don't believe that great/good O-lines are made up of 4 and 5 pro bowl players like in Madden.

[Bill from NYC]

Until that blue print puts some emphasis on the OL, this team will continue to go no-where.

 

over the last 10 years, only 3 picks in the top 4 rounds (44 picks) on the OL.

 

they were forced to overspend big bucks just to field an OL- yet they close the checkbook when it comes to their best and most important LT - which they lucked into.

 

Theyw have no bonafide player on the roster who can step in at either OT spot if needed.

 

You want more......over the same 10 drafts, the Bills selected 9 DBs in the first 4 rounds, with no less than 4 first rounders. This is slightly more than 20% of their best picks. Now, exactly how long is our playoff drought?

Btw, also in terms of the first 4 rounds, Jauron has used 5 out of 12 picks on defensive backs, for a whopping 41.666%!!! In the process, he turned down trade offers, and traded away 2 2nd round picks. Him, and of course his mentor, Levy.

 

What never ceases to amaze me is how people can think that this is a good thing.

[obie_wan]

You want more......over the same 10 drafts, the Bills selected 9 DBs in the first 4 rounds, with no less than 4 first rounders. This is slightly more than 20% of their best picks. Now, exactly how long is our playoff drought?

Btw, also in terms of the first 4 rounds, Jauron has used 5 out of 12 picks on defensive backs, for a whopping 41.666%!!! In the process, he turned down trade offers, and traded away 2 2nd round picks. Him, and of course his mentor, Levy.

 

What never ceases to amaze me is how people can think that this is a good thing.

I falied to note that the dynamic duo spent ZERO top 4 picks on the OL -

 

since they have the next Jason Peters in UDFAs - Kirk Chmabers, the converted TE Matt Murpchy and Christian Geddis to solve our C problem.

[34-78-83]

I falied to note that the dynamic duo spent ZERO top 4 picks on the OL -

 

since they have the next Jason Peters in UDFAs - Kirk Chmabers, the converted TE Matt Murpchy and Christian Geddis to solve our C problem.

 

I see so signing Dockery and Walker (and Whittle) has no bearing on whether or not we needed to draft O-line? I'll admit that I would've been happy with an OL pick in the 2nd or 3rd round this past draft. Maybe to develop a Center to eventually unseat Fowler.

[Bill from NYC]

I see so signing Dockery and Walker (and Whittle) has no bearing on whether or not we needed to draft O-line? I'll admit that I would've been happy with an OL pick in the 2nd or 3rd round this past draft. Maybe to develop a Center to eventually unseat Fowler.

 

You answered your own question.

 

Remember, Levy and Jauron also signed many free agent dbs. The only point I am trying to make is that they use a disproportionate amount of resources on the secondary, and obie's numbers prove this. So does the w/l record.

[keepthefaith]

You want more......over the same 10 drafts, the Bills selected 9 DBs in the first 4 rounds, with no less than 4 first rounders. This is slightly more than 20% of their best picks. Now, exactly how long is our playoff drought?

Btw, also in terms of the first 4 rounds, Jauron has used 5 out of 12 picks on defensive backs, for a whopping 41.666%!!! In the process, he turned down trade offers, and traded away 2 2nd round picks. Him, and of course his mentor, Levy.

 

What never ceases to amaze me is how people can think that this is a good thing.

 

Jauron was a defensive back when he played.

Jauron's first coaching job was to coach defensive backs.

Jauron likes the Cover-2 defense which keeps defensive backs away from the line of scrimmage.

Jauron has a say in who the Bills draft.

Jauron had a WR convert to defensive back.

When the other team is in a passing situation, Jauron likes to put on the field more defensive backs.

Many players that play special teams are also defensive backs.

Jauron likes defensive backs.

[Adam]

I think it is simpler than that. Jauron just doesn't win football games.

 

Walsh revolutionized the game of football and had one of the most pervasive and extensive impacts on the game of football as anyone has ever had. Jauron is a grain of sand compared to that mountain.

No way am I comparing the two- but give Jauron Montana, Rice, Taylor, Jones, Charles hayley and that crew, and my guess is he makes a dent in the playoffs and wins a superbowl or two.

 

Give Walsh our offensive and defensive lines along with JP Losman and Trent Edwards....and he'll be on the wildcard bubble as well. Maybe a couple games better than Jauron, but he was a hall of famer.

[obie_wan]

No way am I comparing the two- but give Jauron Montana, Rice, Taylor, Jones, Charles hayley and that crew, and my guess is he makes a dent in the playoffs and wins a superbowl or two.

 

Give Walsh our offensive and defensive lines along with JP Losman and Trent Edwards....and he'll be on the wildcard bubble as well. Maybe a couple games better than Jauron, but he was a hall of famer.

 

 

Walsh however, may have been smart enough to make the OL a priority so his QBs could become stars and make use of those WRs and RBs.

[34-78-83]

Walsh however, may have been smart enough to make the OL a priority so his QBs could become stars and make use of those WRs and RBs.

 

How is signing Dockery, Walker and Whittle (all guys who can play now) in one offseason not making the OL a priority?

Remember drafted O-linemen need time to develop.

Or are you just combining the current regimes with the last 2?

[BillsVet]

No way am I comparing the two- but give Jauron Montana, Rice, Taylor, Jones, Charles hayley and that crew, and my guess is he makes a dent in the playoffs and wins a superbowl or two.

 

Give Walsh our offensive and defensive lines along with JP Losman and Trent Edwards....and he'll be on the wildcard bubble as well. Maybe a couple games better than Jauron, but he was a hall of famer.

 

Once again, you're missing the point. Bill Walsh took that SF franchise from being 2-14 to winning a SB just a two seasons later. He was HC when the team drafted those players you mentioned and this ability to find talent is nearly unmatched in the past 30 years. He invented the WCO, found the players to fit it, and can count more than 25 head coaches who either worked for him or his assistants.

 

DJ has a career .427 winning percentage with multiple franchises. I don't see anything happening now to change the way he is.

[K-9]

Jauron was a defensive back when he played. Don't see the relevance. HCs have played various positions in their playing days and many coaches never played at all. Were all their drafts affected by the same bias?

 

Jauron's first coaching job was to coach defensive backs. Makes perfect sense to hire a position coach with experience at the position.

 

Jauron likes the Cover-2 defense which keeps defensive backs away from the line of scrimmage. Yeah. Less than 50% of the time and in some games, like against NE, virtually 0% of the time.

 

Jauron has a say in who the Bills draft. You'd prefer a coach who didn't have a say?

 

Jauron had a WR convert to defensive back. Jauron didn't want to waste Wilson's athletic talents and found a place for him at a time when the team had a critical need due to injury. That's not a good thing?

 

When the other team is in a passing situation, Jauron likes to put on the field more defensive backs. When teams are in obvious passing situations they tend to put more receiving personnel on the field. It's a bad idea to counter with defenders best able to defend that strategy? That's coaching 101.

 

Many players that play special teams are also defensive backs. Defensive backs are and have long been considered the best athletes in football. Makes sense you'd use more of them on special teams in certain positions.

 

Jauron likes defensive backs. He likes every other position as well. Or are you suggesting he doesn't?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Adam]

Once again, you're missing the point. Bill Walsh took that SF franchise from being 2-14 to winning a SB just a two seasons later. He was HC when the team drafted those players you mentioned and this ability to find talent is nearly unmatched in the past 30 years. He invented the WCO, found the players to fit it, and can count more than 25 head coaches who either worked for him or his assistants.

 

DJ has a career .427 winning percentage with multiple franchises. I don't see anything happening now to change the way he is.

You don't get a Bill Walsh that often. You say nothing will change Jauron's record- I say better talent would do the trick- did you see the thread about where our d-line is ranked in the NFL? it was pretty accurate.

 

A lot of people wanted Wade Phillips fired over a stupid comment he made- look where that got us.

[obie_wan]

You don't get a Bill Walsh that often. You say nothing will change Jauron's record- I say better talent would do the trick- did you see the thread about where our d-line is ranked in the NFL? it was pretty accurate.

 

A lot of people wanted Wade Phillips fired over a stupid comment he made- look where that got us.

I did not know that Wade was GM and picking the players when he was here

[obie_wan]

Remember drafted O-linemen need time to develop.

 

I guess that's an ironclad reason for not wasting any high draft picks on the OL.

 

But if you spend high enough picks, those players can play right away- unlike UDFA who take years to determine they are no good.

[Adam]

I did not know that Wade was GM and picking the players when he was here

Wade inherited a very good team

[Sisyphean Bills]

No way am I comparing the two- but give Jauron Montana, Rice, Taylor, Jones, Charles hayley and that crew, and my guess is he makes a dent in the playoffs and wins a superbowl or two.

I'm not convinced. What are your arguments to support this claim? Indeed, it's rather easier to believe that Jauron, even if he was given a roster with several Pro Bowlers, would find a way to play rope-a-dope. The argument that Jauron knows what to do with great offensive players seems highly fantastic.

 

Out of curiosity, what would it take for you to change your mind about Jauron and believe that he is a marginal head coach rather than that all of his problems are simply "lack of talent"?

[keepthefaith]

I'm not convinced. What are your arguments to support this claim? Indeed, it's rather easier to believe that Jauron, even if he was given a roster with several Pro Bowlers, would find a way to play rope-a-dope. The argument that Jauron knows what to do with great offensive players seems highly fantastic.

 

Out of curiosity, what would it take for you to change your mind about Jauron and believe that he is a marginal head coach rather than that all of his problems are simply "lack of talent"?

 

"Highly Fantastic". That's great!

 

To answer your question, I'd say stick around and watch this year. Nobody IMO in the Bills' organization has more pressure on him than da coach.