Scouts Inc. Fantasy O-Line rankings

[keepthefaith]

Far more, but they MUST do something with Peters. To be honest, this situation is pissing me off more than a little.

 

These things are usually ugly before they get resolved. Hopefully Peters is on time to camp and the differences get worked out at some point. With 3 years to go on his deal, he's not in the best position to sit.

[keepthefaith]

Exactly. Even a 7-win season (again) would be grounds for dismissal. There is more talent on this team than Adam is willing to admit.

 

Agree.

[Adam]

Agree.

I agree too- but how much can you expect out of Edwards and Hardy at this stage of their career- they are two key players and both are bound to make mistakes that cost us games. I am more into how we play this season than how many W's. If I think we look like a better team than last year, thats good for me at this stage.

 

We do have some talent, but it needs more experience.

[VOR]

As to it being a deep answer, IMO these things are multifaceted which explains the difference between me and several other people and the rest of the barbarian horde here. It's easy to slap down numbers 7 and 9 and call it a day at the office, but that's clearly absurd. Yet, that exactly what many people do then apparently thinking that we are the only team to have had a draft and added players by free agency and as if every move we make works out simply by virtue of us being the Bills.

 

And yes, while we may agree that the team overachieved last year, we clearly don't agree on this year. In order to understand what to expect this year we must first understand last year and if we overachieved, where we would have been had we simply achieved to par. Because teams simply don't go from where we were last year according to my stated facts above to playoff contention. It just doesn't happen.

Nevermind. I should have kept it at "we'll agree to disagree and see how the season plays out."

[BillsVet]

The question should be: How much team talent does Dick Jauron need to make the playoffs?

 

At some point, a coach has to raise the level of play for their team. I know that if someone cites lack of talent as a reason for not making the playoffs that few will buy it.

[krazykat]

I agree too- but how much can you expect out of Edwards and Hardy at this stage of their career- they are two key players and both are bound to make mistakes that cost us games. I am more into how we play this season than how many W's. If I think we look like a better team than last year, thats good for me at this stage.

 

We do have some talent, but it needs more experience.

The guys doing the rebuild, Jauron and Marv who was supposed to have all this wisdom, should have thought about that back during the offseason of 2005, not now.

 

They should have had plans A, B, and C in place. They had plan A with Losman who got a shot with a fraction of what Edwards now has. He failed, they drafted Edwards, not JP is PO'd and wants out, and they have absolutely nothing behind Edwards so that when he makes a mess this season they have anything to fall back on.

 

Does this strike you as good planning, vision, and foresight and a good way to manage/run a team?

 

They're time is up. They've purchased the ingredients, gotten several mulligans; 1. '05 not rebuilding, '06 rebuilding; 2. Two OCs, 3. Two QBs, maybe more.

 

They now need to prepare a meal with what they have. Many of us thought that hiring Jauron was the wrong move in spades. The team and it's drone minions insisted that Jauron didn't get a fair shake and in spite of his history as a losing coach they said it was all immaterial. Well, here we are, we've had more of the same and if he can't produce a winner this year, then it's time to move on.

 

At some point excuses have to end. Edwards doesn't have to play like Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, or Brady, but he does have to do a little bit more than lead the team to continual goose-eggs offensively. I think that's more than fair, don't you think!

 

As to Hardy, the team's sole offensive improvement this offseason means that they saw no real issues with an offense that scored less than any other team in the league last year, had fewer plays from scrimmage than any other team in the league last year, had the 2nd to last 1st Downs, the 2nd to last 3rd down conversions, 3rd to last in points per game overall as a team, and 3rd to last in yards per game too. Well I have issues with it. I also think that what they did last year was clearly overrated.

 

Anyway, if they need more experience, they had two years to amass it. And how many of our starters don't "have experience?" Our entire OL does. Our TEs do. Our WRs do other than the rookies. Edwards and Lynch are in their second seasons.

 

On defense our entire DL has plenty of experience as does Crowell and Mitchell. Only Poz doesn't. In the D backfield both Whitner and Simpson are in their third seasons and McGee is a rookie. So I'm not all that sure what you mean here.

[krazykat]

The question should be: How much team talent does Dick Jauron need to make the playoffs?

 

At some point, a coach has to raise the level of play for their team. I know that if someone cites lack of talent as a reason for not making the playoffs that few will buy it.

He definitely needs more than good coaches do.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The question should be: How much team talent does Dick Jauron need to make the playoffs?

 

At some point, a coach has to raise the level of play for their team. I know that if someone cites lack of talent as a reason for not making the playoffs that few will buy it.

 

I wonder: are people really going to be thrilled to back into the playoffs and get destroyed? I seem to recall a 62-7 playoff game that left a coach in the ditch once upon a time.

[VOR]

I wonder: are people really going to be thrilled to back into the playoffs and get destroyed? I seem to recall a 62-7 playoff game that left a coach in the ditch once upon a time.

Baby steps. Getting into the playoffs, however it happens, will be a good thing. And that wasn't the first year the Fins made the playoffs under JJ. It was another year of more of the same.

[dave mcbride]

I wonder: are people really going to be thrilled to back into the playoffs and get destroyed? I seem to recall a 62-7 playoff game that left a coach in the ditch once upon a time.

Ahem ... at least they won the week before (20-17 v. Seattle).

[Sisyphean Bills]

These things are usually ugly before they get resolved. Hopefully Peters is on time to camp and the differences get worked out at some point. With 3 years to go on his deal, he's not in the best position to sit.

What was Peters 2nd contract for? Aren't the Bills significantly below the cap?

 

If I was JP's agent, I'm not sure I'd be thrilled with the Bills. The secret is out. Peters is an elite player. Yes, the Bills extended him and gave him a raise over his absolute bargain basement UDFA contract. But, then they went out and threw money at two veteran OL players, neither one of which is in Peters class, and paid them more (I assume it is more). And Peters plays the money position on the line!

[Sisyphean Bills]

Baby steps. Getting into the playoffs, however it happens, will be a good thing. And that wasn't the first year the Fins made the playoffs under JJ. It was another year of more of the same.

The year before was, IIRC, 48-3 on the playoff exit.

 

The point is that just squeaking into the playoffs from a weak division or on a weak schedule doesn't necessarily disguise a team's true weaknesses quite as well as being near 0.500 and "almost playoff eligible" does. Because when they go up against the more complete, more talented teams in the playoffs, they get crushed.

 

Apparently, the possibility of watching the Patriots/Chargers/Colts score a touchdown every time they get the ball in a nationally televised playoff game doesn't get me as jacked up as others.

[obie_wan]

Funny, I have come to the same conclusion about you. Jauron has made the most of what he has here, and that hasn't been much.

 

For years, Butler and Donahoe fiddled with the QB situation, frittering away high draft picks while our offensive and defensive lines collapsed. Early in the decade, we had a wealth of offensive weapons, then Mr. smoke and mirrors (Donahoe) let them all go and changed the focus to defense. We had the continuity of Levy/Phillips for over a decade, now we are playing musical chairs with our coaching staff. With very few exceptions, every time you change coaches, you start over and are nothing more than an expansion team.

 

Jauron has had two rough seasons in which their has been terrible offenses and defenses. He has squeezed everything he can out of the roster and then some in order to get 14 wins out of the team. If Wilson is smart, he will ignore the fans and Jauron won't even be on the hot seat. It is also stupidity that John Fox is on the hot seat in Carolina. Then again, it is easier to believe you have talent and fire the coach if you don't know how things work in reality.

 

The reason the Bills look and play like an expansion team is somewhat self-inflicted.

 

Although with loads of cap room, Marv and Dick voluntarily let go a lot of players who could have been kept as they transitioned to the new approach. However, by gutting the team, they created too many holes to fill in one or even 2 off-seasons. Now if they don't make the playoffs yet again, the team could be starting over one more time with not much to show for it.

[Sisyphean Bills]

In the Dallas game the D may have done something to help the offense, but it sure didn't stop the Cowboys from putting up almost 400 yards, after turning the ball over 6 times and still scoring 24 points.

The Cowboys game is a real case study. The Cowboys are a very talented team -- many think the most talented team in the NFC, in fact. And the half-fullians could use the fact that it took a miracle finish for the Cowboys to knock off the Bills as positive evidence that the Bills are blossoming into an upper echelon team, ready for the playoffs.

 

On the other hand, one could ask: how often does a team that is +6 in turnover margin in an NFL game lose? The odds are extremely long; it is profoundly rare. Because, in order to accomplish this amazing feat, the other team has to be superior in all phases of the game: they have to mentally tougher, better prepared to deal with adversity and adjust on the fly -- making up a gameplan in real time; they have to have a defense that can shut it down on a short field; they have to have special teams that can keep the TOs from hurting them too badly on field position; and, they have to have an offense that is so superior that 6 major mistakes can be overcome with more than 6 major positive plays.

[keepthefaith]

The reason the Bills look and play like an expansion team is somewhat self-inflicted.

 

Although with loads of cap room, Marv and Dick voluntarily let go a lot of players who could have been kept as they transitioned to the new approach. However, by gutting the team, they created too many holes to fill in one or even 2 off-seasons. Now if they don't make the playoffs yet again, the team could be starting over one more time with not much to show for it.

 

The sky is not falling yet. A new season will soon be upon us and the coaches and players have a great opportunity to put the added talent and experience to work. There are fewer places to hide and the results will speak for themselves.

[BillsVet]

Baby steps. Getting into the playoffs, however it happens, will be a good thing. And that wasn't the first year the Fins made the playoffs under JJ. It was another year of more of the same.

 

How many years in the free agency era of the NFL must a team have to rebuild? Buffalo's been doing it since Donahoe was fired, and reasonable fans would like to see something this decade.

 

We all know on paper how difficult the AFC might be this season. One team always rises out of nowhere, but I have a sinking feeling that Buffalo will go 9-7, miss the postseason, and some fans around here will call this progress and demand DJ have another season.

[Adam]

We all know on paper how difficult the AFC might be this season. One team always rises out of nowhere, but I have a sinking feeling that Buffalo will go 9-7, miss the postseason, and some fans around here will call this progress and demand DJ have another season.

Hey, I understand the frustration, but you can't build a team on frree agency. It just won't work. Donahoe tried it and failed miserably. He gave us an offense with no defense, then gutted the offense and gave us a decent defense. Not to mention what we could have done with the draft picks given up for Johnson, Bledsoe and Losman. Tell me you wouldn't have taken a few seasons of Todd Collins or Doug Flutie if we could have gotten some good linemen. Then Mike Williams turned into our biggest bust since JD Williams and we also took a punt returner in the second round.

 

Build up a core through the draft and don't break the bank for a free agent until they are one of the final pieces. We are making progress, we just need to get our young players experience. By the way, I am so happy that Fletcher and Clements are no longer on the team.

 

On the coaching issue, what do you want out of a coach. The team plays hard for him, they are more disciplined than they have been in years- penalties are down most of the time. They have been in position to take the ball away. What else does a coach do? Guys have to make more plays than the other team and the coach can't really control that.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Hey, I understand the frustration, but you can't build a team on frree agency. It just won't work. Donahoe tried it and failed miserably. He gave us an offense with no defense, then gutted the offense and gave us a decent defense. Not to mention what we could have done with the draft picks given up for Johnson, Bledsoe and Losman. Tell me you wouldn't have taken a few seasons of Todd Collins or Doug Flutie if we could have gotten some good linemen. Then Mike Williams turned into our biggest bust since JD Williams and we also took a punt returner in the second round.

 

Build up a core through the draft and don't break the bank for a free agent until they are one of the final pieces. We are making progress, we just need to get our young players experience. By the way, I am so happy that Fletcher and Clements are no longer on the team.

 

Building the core through the draft is the key. It is exactly how the Chargers, Colts, and Patriots were built. (Although the Patriots do a good job of adding spare parts in FA, typically, as well.) Oh, and I'll toss in the Giants as well. This emphasizes several things.

 

A) The FO must have a viable blueprint for what they want to build in the first place. Just playing spin the wheel each off-season and trying to score marketing flash isn't a blueprint or a plan.

 

B) A team needs a core. A core is a group of players that are the leaders of the team. "The navy is run by its chiefs."

 

C) The draft is the best way to go. Its not about pinching the pennies and winning the battle for "team with the most cap space" -- it's about drafting, developing, and retaining talent so that your franchise doesn't go through 10 year droughts of losing, ineptness, and chasing butterflies. Every team whiffs on draft picks, but successful teams don't make a habit of wasting their picks with nothing to show for it year in and year out. It's like that commercial where the guy buys a painting in an auction house and before he sits back down he wants to sell it. That's not building for the future or investing in your people. That's being a fool.

[obie_wan]

Building the core through the draft is the key. It is exactly how the Chargers, Colts, and Patriots were built. (Although the Patriots do a good job of adding spare parts in FA, typically, as well.) Oh, and I'll toss in the Giants as well. This emphasizes several things.

 

A) The FO must have a viable blueprint for what they want to build in the first place. Just playing spin the wheel each off-season and trying to score marketing flash isn't a blueprint or a plan.

 

B) A team needs a core. A core is a group of players that are the leaders of the team. "The navy is run by its chiefs."

 

C) The draft is the best way to go. Its not about pinching the pennies and winning the battle for "team with the most cap space" -- it's about drafting, developing, and retaining talent so that your franchise doesn't go through 10 year droughts of losing, ineptness, and chasing butterflies. Every team whiffs on draft picks, but successful teams don't make a habit of wasting their picks with nothing to show for it year in and year out. It's like that commercial where the guy buys a painting in an auction house and before he sits back down he wants to sell it. That's not building for the future or investing in your people. That's being a fool.

 

Until that blue print puts some emphasis on the OL, this team will continue to go no-where.

 

over the last 10 years, only 3 picks in the top 4 rounds (44 picks) on the OL.

 

they were forced to overspend big bucks just to field an OL- yet they close the checkbook when it comes to their best and most important LT - which they lucked into.

 

Theyw have no bonafide player on the roster who can step in at either OT spot if needed.

[VOR]

Theyw have no bonafide player on the roster who can step in at either OT spot if needed.

Name the teams who do. Now.