Obama = Windfall profit tax

[pBills]

So what's your take on domestic production? Why is it that the Democrats are blocking us from developing a long term solution by opening up ANWR and drilling off of the coast of Florida? If you're so sick of it, what are you doing about it other than b*tching on an internet message board?

 

The political games being played by 'your' side are having a detrimental impact on the future of our nation.

 

 

Again, most people do not like to or want to drill in the US. Ok, so we open up ANWR or the Gulf... then what? We pay $5.00-$6.00+ till the oil starts to come out and the we start refining??

 

I am bitching, but I am bitching how politicians are dwelling on the longterm instead of the here and now AND the longterm. Take care of what's going on now first.

 

Sorry if you didn't get that.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

I am not positive, but I believe it is because of the high cost of foreign oil. I am not an economist, but I think if we started to drill for our own oil, it would scare the hell out of OPEC, causing them to increase supply and drop prices. We have more than enough oil domestically to not even need them for at least 100 years, while we develop our alternative fuels. Unfortunately, the two parties are to stubborn to work together to achieve so simple a solution.

sorry to keep beating on you, but you're off by a few years. According to the DOE there's approximately 20,972,000,000 barrels of known crude reserves in the US. The DOE also says we use about 20,698,000 barrels a day, so that's roughly 7,554,770,000 barrels per year or 3 years supply. That might not count the newer discoveries, since they update it every year in December for the previous year, but unless next year's forecast is off the charts, we cannot sustain ourselves with domestic oil very long. That is not to say we shouldn't drill for new supplies...

 

And although he never answers a direct question, which leads me to believe he's bullshyting, OPEC's Secretary General Abdullah al-Badri says there's plenty of supply and the current price has nothing to do with supply and demand, that it's all about speculators. So, the concept of OPEC being afraid of US being energy independent is probably a pipe dream, because they will sell every single barrel they produce even if it never goes to us.

[SD Jarhead]

Again, most people do not like to or want to drill in the US. Ok, so we open up ANWR or the Gulf... then what? We pay $5.00-$6.00+ till the oil starts to come out and the we start refining??

 

I am bitching, but I am bitching how politicians are dwelling on the longterm instead of the here and now AND the longterm. Take care of what's going on now first.

 

Sorry if you didn't get that.

 

You sir are incorrect. A majority (57%) of Americans in a recent poll want us to start developing ANWR and offshore domestic sources.

 

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the Democrats BLOCKED oil development in ANWR back during the Clinton Administration. The point is, the sooner we can reduce our dependence on foreign sources through conservation, alternative fuels and domestic production, the better off we'll be.

 

Domestic production isn't a complete solution, but while YOUR political party obstructs progress we are another day away from independence.

 

You do understand why the Sierra Club pushed so hard to get the Polar Bear on the endangered species list don't you?

 

Lastly, I'll ask the question that no Liberal on this board will touch. How can Obama say with a clear conscience that he is for helping the working class families of this nation while he says he is comfortable with current oil prices? Is it just me or do his positions not align?

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

You sir are incorrect. A majority (57%) of Americans in a recent poll want us to start developing ANWR and offshore domestic sources.

 

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the Democrats BLOCKED oil development in ANWR back during the Clinton Administration. The point is, the sooner we can reduce our dependence on foreign sources through conservation, alternative fuels and domestic production, the better off we'll be.

 

Domestic production isn't a complete solution, but while YOUR political party obstructs progress we are another day away from independence.

 

You do understand why the Sierra Club pushed so hard to get the Polar Bear on the endangered species list don't you?

 

Lastly, I'll ask the question that no Liberal on this board will touch. How can Obama say with a clear conscience that he is for helping the working class families of this nation while he says he is comfortable with current oil prices? Is it just me or do his positions not align?

You are correct in that the most recent polls show Americans strongly in favor of drilling in ANWR and offshore, but that has NEVER been the case until recently, actually quite the opposite. So to say democrats blocked oil development without mentioning that the American people told them that's what they wanted, is being disingenuous. Yeah, I know, they're just dumb lemmings that are spoon fed liberal hogwash. But either you have to accept all of the polls or none, not just the most recent 1s.

 

I totally agree that if we conserve more, invest in alternative fuels and increase domestic supplies, the better off we'll be.

 

...And you're really getting a lot of mileage off Obama's gasoline price statement.

 

The question to Obama was whether Congress was actually working to keep prices from falling.

 

Here's the actual quote:

 

“I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is not a good thing. But if we take some steps right now to help people make the adjustment, first of all by putting more money into their pockets, but also by encouraging the market to adapt to these new circumstances more quickly, particularly US automakers, then I think ultimately, we can come out of this stronger and have a more efficient energy policy than we do right now,”

 

It's pretty clear what he meant was the huge impact caused by high prices is made even worse when they climb so quickly.

Yeah, he's comfortable with high gas prices and it's good for American families. Right

 

But nice job on the talking points...

[pBills]

You sir are incorrect. A majority (57%) of Americans in a recent poll want us to start developing ANWR and offshore domestic sources.

 

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the Democrats BLOCKED oil development in ANWR back during the Clinton Administration. The point is, the sooner we can reduce our dependence on foreign sources through conservation, alternative fuels and domestic production, the better off we'll be.

 

Domestic production isn't a complete solution, but while YOUR political party obstructs progress we are another day away from independence.

 

You do understand why the Sierra Club pushed so hard to get the Polar Bear on the endangered species list don't you?

 

Lastly, I'll ask the question that no Liberal on this board will touch. How can Obama say with a clear conscience that he is for helping the working class families of this nation while he says he is comfortable with current oil prices? Is it just me or do his positions not align?

 

 

Of course they do now, they are all getting killed at the pump. I have merely said that there is going to be fight no matter the polling numbers. Yes, MY political party did this and did that... blah, blah, blah. Should we really discuss all of the wonderful things the republicans have done or want to do? I am not a member of the Sierra Club so I don't know what they have done lately or what their plans are. Anything else? Oh yes... there's more.

 

When has Obama ever said he is fine with current oil prices? He has stated numerous times, a lot more than McSenile about building alternative fuel sources and to try to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.

[KD in CA]

You sir are incorrect. A majority (57%) of Americans in a recent poll want us to start developing ANWR and offshore domestic sources.

 

And it's only that low because the only people doing ANWR (aka ANWAR) surveys are the hippie groups and obviously anyone can slant a survey with fancy language.

 

Anyone trying to tell you that working class Democrats who are getting hammered by gas prices really give a sh-- about a tiny fraction of some frozen wasteland at the top of the world is either stupid or pushing an agenda. Not drilling for our own oil is the ultimate limousine liberal policy.

[SD Jarhead]

You are correct in that the most recent polls show Americans strongly in favor of drilling in ANWR and offshore, but that has NEVER been the case until recently, actually quite the opposite. So to say democrats blocked oil development without mentioning that the American people told them that's what they wanted, is being disingenuous. Yeah, I know, they're just dumb lemmings that are spoon fed liberal hogwash. But either you have to accept all of the polls or none, not just the most recent 1s.

 

I totally agree that if we conserve more, invest in alternative fuels and increase domestic supplies, the better off we'll be.

 

...And you're really getting a lot of mileage off Obama's gasoline price statement.

 

The question to Obama was whether Congress was actually working to keep prices from falling.

 

Here's the actual quote:

 

“I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is not a good thing. But if we take some steps right now to help people make the adjustment, first of all by putting more money into their pockets, but also by encouraging the market to adapt to these new circumstances more quickly, particularly US automakers, then I think ultimately, we can come out of this stronger and have a more efficient energy policy than we do right now,”

 

It's pretty clear what he meant was the huge impact caused by high prices is made even worse when they climb so quickly.

Yeah, he's comfortable with high gas prices and it's good for American families. Right

 

But nice job on the talking points...

 

Actually, it's not far from what John Kerry said last election- that a rise in the price of oil is a good thing (I'm para-phrasing). In all honesty, I really don't disagree. We have been spoiled for years with extremely low fuel and oil prices. I have lived abroad and know how much energy costs in places like Japan where they understand conservation and make it a way of life. There's a lot to be learned from other cultures. I don't think it is a preordained right to have cheap fuel here.

 

As someone who has lost close friends in Iraq, I know the true cost of oil from the Middle East. So don't give me the talking points BS. My problem lies with both parties. The Republicans for not having a coherent energy policy during the last eight years and the Democrats for blocking any steps taken toward weaning us off of foreign sources.

 

Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth. Quite frankly he's full of schit. And he doesn't get called on it. That's just my perspective. If you want to buy into the whole 'man of the people' BS, that's your choice, but I'm not buying it...

[pBills]

Actually Kerry warned of gas prices going much higher than we could ever expect. Bush and the cronies mocked.

 

Obama talks out both sides of his mouth... maybe, debatable. McCain just talks... it's just to bad nothing would change for the good with him.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

As someone who has lost close friends in Iraq, I know the true cost of oil from the Middle East. So don't give me the talking points BS.

Ok, sounds like we're not all that much different in opinions here.

 

When I said talking points, I meant Fox News and Senator McConnell slamming Obama misquoting him about high gas prices, nothing more...

[KD in CA]

Actually Kerry warned of gas prices going much higher than we could ever expect. Bush and the cronies mocked.

 

Yeah, ok. Big John has really been a leader in energy policy. How are those windfarms off Cape Cod coming along?

[EC-Bills]

Al Gore's Occidental Petroleum holdings are inconveniently doing quite well, thank you.

 

From what I read recently, that stock was suposedly sold off some time back when they closed his father's estate. Never fear though. Al is now part of a venture capitalist group for green technologies and likes to flaunt how he is donating his salary to green causes. Of course he neglects to detail what he is going to do with all the money from those stock options whenever some of those investments go public...

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

From what I read recently, that stock was suposedly sold off some time back when they closed his father's estate. Never fear though. Al is now part of a venture capitalist group for green technologies and likes to flaunt how he is donating his salary to green causes. Of course he neglects to detail what he is going to do with all the money from those stock options whenever some of those investments go public...

you've got some good points, but there hasn't been many IPOs lately, as in close to zilch. He makes money, and there's no reason why not to...

[pBills]

Yeah, ok. Big John has really been a leader in energy policy. How are those windfarms off Cape Cod coming along?

 

 

 

Never said he was a huge leader in Energy. But if you are going to mock, know that he was the one that said something should be done. Bush laughed it off.

[finknottle]

Let's add all of our oil to the world market now, while we are in an economic slowdown, so that the Chinese can buy it up to fuel their continued economic growth.

 

As long as our price at the pump drops a few pennies it will be worth it. We'll invent a magic substitute if we need it later on.

[SD Jarhead]

Let's add all of our oil to the world market now, while we are in an economic slowdown, so that the Chinese can buy it up to fuel their continued economic growth.

 

As long as our price at the pump drops a few pennies it will be worth it. We'll invent a magic substitute if we need it later on.

 

Dude, you're making no sense. Your argument is very simplistic. First of all, no one is suggested we could even get it 'right away'. And if we were to sell it on the world market, don't you think selling high is a good thing?

 

As for a magic substitute, that something you'll have to ask Pete and pbills about. That's what they're waiting for...

[Adam]

Actually Kerry warned of gas prices going much higher than we could ever expect. Bush and the cronies mocked.

 

Obama talks out both sides of his mouth... maybe, debatable. McCain just talks... it's just to bad nothing would change for the good with him.

I disagree. Obama will overtax the oil companies, and in essence the middle class which he is supposedly trying to help. McCain is for some digging- but not a lot. The threat of us getting our own oil would force OPEC to up production and lower costs. It would also help if we got back to using our reserve supply to force costs down. By the way- McCain is AGAINST drilling in ANWR from what I understand.

 

People do need to stop demonizing the oil companies though- the fact that they are doing so well isn't a bad thing- it may be what is propping up our economy. If the economy had no legs to stand on at all, things could be far worse. Taxing them is the final avenue if nothing else works.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

I disagree. Obama will overtax the oil companies, and in essence the middle class which he is supposedly trying to help. McCain is for some digging- but not a lot. The threat of us getting our own oil would force OPEC to up production and lower costs. It would also help if we got back to using our reserve supply to force costs down. By the way- McCain is AGAINST drilling in ANWR from what I understand.

 

People do need to stop demonizing the oil companies though- the fact that they are doing so well isn't a bad thing- it may be what is propping up our economy. If the economy had no legs to stand on at all, things could be far worse. Taxing them is the final avenue if nothing else works.

Either you're playing devil's advocate again or you've had too many Labatts. What you don't seem to understand is that OPEC sells every single barrel they produce. They don't need the US in any way shape or form, because China, India, and other developing countries will pick up the slack.

 

There is one thing they care about the USA... they don't want our economy (or the global economy for that matter) to go into the toilet, even if they are making money hand over foot, because it hurts them longer term as a result of the ripple effect to other countries, value of the dollar, all that.

 

We can argue back and forth about whether the oil companies are screwing us over; if they are just in an advantageous position because the cost of oil has shot up to record levels; or are they simply returning good shareholder value. But make no mistake, their record high prices are crippling the world economy and creating riots in some places. Costs for millions of things are going way up, because they are petroleum based (like any plastic for example) or transportation costs have skyrocketed. Oil isn't propping up the economy, it's strangling it.

 

There is some good news on the horizon... Saudi Arabia has called an important meeting of suppliers and consumers, because they realize it's a huge problem even if it isn't their fault. And they are increasing production, not because the demand is too high given the supply, but they know they have to do something because it's that serious.

[finknottle]

Dude, you're making no sense. Your argument is very simplistic. First of all, no one is suggested we could even get it 'right away'. And if we were to sell it on the world market, don't you think selling high is a good thing?

 

Now you are the one making no sense. If you believe prices are headed up over the next 50 years, then selling now is selling low.

 

If you believe they are going to come down, then why bother?

[Adam]

There is some good news on the horizon... Saudi Arabia has called an important meeting of suppliers and consumers, because they realize it's a huge problem even if it isn't their fault. And they are increasing production, not because the demand is too high given the supply, but they know they have to do something because it's that serious.

More oil alone won't bring gas prices down much though- we need more gas, which means the refineries have to get off their butts and produce more than the 81% of their capacity they have been producing.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

More oil alone won't bring gas prices down much though- we need more gas, which means the refineries have to get off their butts and produce more than the 81% of their capacity they have been producing.

Let's see, increasing the supply of oil won't bring down the cost of gas much, but refining more gasoline will? Wow, interesting economic theory. You should teach this stuff, you're that good!