What's the deal with Bills in Toronto tickets?

[Lv-Bills]

Just for giggles I went on Ticketmaster to see what was left. $175 upper deck seats still available. Here we are weeks after they went on sale, 180,000 people supposedly signing up, and half the stadium is still for sale? Something tells me Mr. Rogers may have overestimated his market. Maybe he figured since people pay stupid money for Leafs tickets, they would do the same for the NFL.

 

I hope Ralph got his money upfront.

 

PTR

It's hilarious, I've gotten like 4 emails telling me to buy tickets, and this was from the 180,000 person lottery. LOL. What a joke. 53,000 seats should be gone in no time.....especially a novelty like this.

 

Long live the CFL.

[Lv-Bills]

That is funny, but I think the OP still has a valid point.

 

With the Bills on the verge of reaching a season tickets sales record, one would think that if demand for the Toronto games was very high, that the advance sales would reflect that.

No, one would think the demand was VERY high, because the Rogers folks have said demand was VERY HIGH. That's why it's a joke. 53,000 seats. Come on. Maybe they were a little misleading about the so called "high demand". Usually when an event is in high demand, you don't have to tell someone it's in high demand.

[yall]

Gordie or Dougie?

 

Both.

[PromoTheRobot]

I wrote a quick e-mail to Allen Wilson at the Buffalo News to get his take. He feels like all tickets will be sold by kickoff. But he didn't say how...will they be sold as they are now, in expensive packages, or sold in marked-down single game tickets?

 

PTR

[Ned Flanders]

will they be sold as they are now, in expensive packages, or sold in marked-down single game tickets?

And if, if the game does not sell out, is it blacked out in WNY?

[eball]

I wrote a quick e-mail to Allen Wilson at the Buffalo News to get his take. He feels like all tickets will be sold by kickoff. But he didn't say how...will they be sold as they are now, in expensive packages, or sold in marked-down single game tickets?

 

PTR

And they will. Folks just don't like having 3 or 8 game packages shoved down their throats. Why the hell do I want to pay now for a ticket I may or may not use in 2012?

 

It was a moronic idea, and they're lucky they convinced ANY fools to buy into it.

 

As soon as the 2008 tickets are offered one game at a time, they'll sell very quickly -- and they probably won't have to lower the prices.

[Pyrite Gal]

"It changes nothing for Buffalo, as the Bills in WNY are as good as gone no matter what." - PTR before he started this thread.

Actually it changes nothing for Buffalo not because the Bills are as good as gone, but simply because it can either be good for the prospects of the Bills remaining in Buffalo depending upon a bunch of things that lots of folks have their opinion about what will happen in the future, but really no one besides Ralph (who has a ton of influence over the course of future events, but ultimately even he will like most dead people have severe limits on his future control of life after he dies).

 

Among the variables which will determine a lot and despite the declarations of folks on TSW that their opinions are stone cold truth, no one has a clear idea of these factors.

 

1. When will Ralph die.

 

Ultimately this the major driver on the course of future events and no one really has a solid idea of whether he will last one year, five years, or even more. Ralph has pretty consistently sworn the Bills will remain in Buffalo while he is alive. This seems to be as close to a determining decision as we have got. However, who knows how long it will be until he shuffles off this mortal coil and actually what the state of the international economy will be when he leaves this life. Will the current likely buyers be in the same fiscal condition several years from now? Will the world be suffering from a global depression or recession that changes the outcomes markedly? What unknowns will emerge at some point which will influence future choices significantly.

 

Perhaps the only thing certain about this is only how wrong those who claim that of course a particular outcome will happen are quite likely wrong or have no way of reading the future to claim any certainty credibly.

 

Sure folks legitimately can have opinions but for these opinions to be credible at all they need to be stated with the huge caveats of uncertainty rather than insistence they are stone cold certain.

 

2. How has Ralph set up his will to guide disposal of his assets?

 

Ralph has let folks know his family (and thus most likely heirs) have no interest in running the team. It is generally assumed that the family will inherit the Bills and will be forced to sale the team to pay inheritance taxes.

 

However, there is no guarantee that this conventional wisdom is true with any level of certainty which guarantees a particular outcome without knowing how Ralph's estate will deal with this asset in his will. The devil is in the details and we do not even know for sure where Ralph's desires will fall on the scale between Joe Robbie seeming to plan to live forever and doing little even basic estate planning which forced the sale of the asset. On the other hand, if Ralph chooses, he can leave this asset to am irrevocable trust run by a not-for-profit allowing his heirs to escape owing anything but allowing the team to remain in Buffalo in a Green Bayesque mode which the NFL bans but actually would have limited ability to stop if it were the estate wish of a dead man.

 

Unless folks know for sure what Ralph's wishes are in terms of disposing of this asset for his family (if he is like a Warren Buffet for example he has expressed the since that actually leaving huge assets to his family is a bad thing and while he will set up his heirs to live comfortably and maintain their drive to use the significant assets he will leave them to build additional fortunes he simply has given away the vast majority of his assets to the public good in the form of the Bills Gates Foundation.

 

Everyone knows what they would do with the Bills but really have no idea what Ralph will do with this asset.

 

3. What is the NFL's plan?

 

Some seem to want to treat this as merely Ralph's decision. While it is true that Ralph's desires which will be reflected beyond the grave in his will are actually not the only important consideration here. Ultimately, the entire NFL will get to approve any sale so Ralph's wishes are not the only thing (and that again generally is an unknown besides him staying the Bills will remain in Buffalo while he lives) but actually the league will have a pretty strong say in who buys the team.

 

Ironically this will actually give Buffalo fans some leverage as the threat of anti-trust action proved to be enough for Cleveland that even though the individual owner Modell flew the coop for the highest bidder, Cleveland won the right o a franchise. If Schumer/Clinton et al, are vehement enough in threatening the NFL's antitrust waivers local officials will have difficult to ignore abilities the NFL will find hard to diss and impossible to ignore.

 

Add to this that the major drive for the NFL is likely to want to make as much money as they can. Particularly since the public NFL strategy is to expand into foreign markets, the approach which would seem to make the most money for the NFL is not one of moving the Bills to Toronto and throwing away the already definite asset of 50,000+ season tickets, but instead to yes set-up a new franchise in Toronto, but like the NHL which does quite fine operating the Maple Leafs and Sabres at the same time, there would seem to be few reasons why the NFL cannot have its cake and eat it too by setting up a new franchise in Toronto while also maintaining the Bills in Buffalo.

 

Why chose either or when you can possibly have both.

 

The situation has not changed in that no one really knows.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Actually it changes nothing for Buffalo not because the Bills are as good as gone, but simply because it can either be good for the prospects of the Bills remaining in Buffalo depending upon a bunch of things that lots of folks have their opinion about what will happen in the future, but really no one besides Ralph (who has a ton of influence over the course of future events, but ultimately even he will like most dead people have severe limits on his future control of life after he dies).

 

Among the variables which will determine a lot and despite the declarations of folks on TSW that their opinions are stone cold truth, no one has a clear idea of these factors.

 

1. When will Ralph die.

 

Ultimately this the major driver on the course of future events and no one really has a solid idea of whether he will last one year, five years, or even more. Ralph has pretty consistently sworn the Bills will remain in Buffalo while he is alive. This seems to be as close to a determining decision as we have got. However, who knows how long it will be until he shuffles off this mortal coil and actually what the state of the international economy will be when he leaves this life. Will the current likely buyers be in the same fiscal condition several years from now? Will the world be suffering from a global depression or recession that changes the outcomes markedly? What unknowns will emerge at some point which will influence future choices significantly.

 

Perhaps the only thing certain about this is only how wrong those who claim that of course a particular outcome will happen are quite likely wrong or have no way of reading the future to claim any certainty credibly.

 

Sure folks legitimately can have opinions but for these opinions to be credible at all they need to be stated with the huge caveats of uncertainty rather than insistence they are stone cold certain.

 

2. How has Ralph set up his will to guide disposal of his assets?

 

Ralph has let folks know his family (and thus most likely heirs) have no interest in running the team. It is generally assumed that the family will inherit the Bills and will be forced to sale the team to pay inheritance taxes.

 

However, there is no guarantee that this conventional wisdom is true with any level of certainty which guarantees a particular outcome without knowing how Ralph's estate will deal with this asset in his will. The devil is in the details and we do not even know for sure where Ralph's desires will fall on the scale between Joe Robbie seeming to plan to live forever and doing little even basic estate planning which forced the sale of the asset. On the other hand, if Ralph chooses, he can leave this asset to am irrevocable trust run by a not-for-profit allowing his heirs to escape owing anything but allowing the team to remain in Buffalo in a Green Bayesque mode which the NFL bans but actually would have limited ability to stop if it were the estate wish of a dead man.

 

Unless folks know for sure what Ralph's wishes are in terms of disposing of this asset for his family (if he is like a Warren Buffet for example he has expressed the since that actually leaving huge assets to his family is a bad thing and while he will set up his heirs to live comfortably and maintain their drive to use the significant assets he will leave them to build additional fortunes he simply has given away the vast majority of his assets to the public good in the form of the Bills Gates Foundation.

 

Everyone knows what they would do with the Bills but really have no idea what Ralph will do with this asset.

 

3. What is the NFL's plan?

 

Some seem to want to treat this as merely Ralph's decision. While it is true that Ralph's desires which will be reflected beyond the grave in his will are actually not the only important consideration here. Ultimately, the entire NFL will get to approve any sale so Ralph's wishes are not the only thing (and that again generally is an unknown besides him staying the Bills will remain in Buffalo while he lives) but actually the league will have a pretty strong say in who buys the team.

 

Ironically this will actually give Buffalo fans some leverage as the threat of anti-trust action proved to be enough for Cleveland that even though the individual owner Modell flew the coop for the highest bidder, Cleveland won the right o a franchise. If Schumer/Clinton et al, are vehement enough in threatening the NFL's antitrust waivers local officials will have difficult to ignore abilities the NFL will find hard to diss and impossible to ignore.

 

Add to this that the major drive for the NFL is likely to want to make as much money as they can. Particularly since the public NFL strategy is to expand into foreign markets, the approach which would seem to make the most money for the NFL is not one of moving the Bills to Toronto and throwing away the already definite asset of 50,000+ season tickets, but instead to yes set-up a new franchise in Toronto, but like the NHL which does quite fine operating the Maple Leafs and Sabres at the same time, there would seem to be few reasons why the NFL cannot have its cake and eat it too by setting up a new franchise in Toronto while also maintaining the Bills in Buffalo.

 

Why chose either or when you can possibly have both.

 

The situation has not changed in that no one really knows.

You are DREAMING. Ralph has said the team will be SOLD to the HIGHEST BIDDER upon his death PERIOD.