GoodBye Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 AJ, in law enforcement there is what is known as the Force Continuum. 1) Officer Presence 2) Verbal Commands 3) Empty Hand Control 4) Intermediate Weapons 5) Lethal Force Due to variables you can go from Level 1 (officer presence) straight to Level 5 (lethal force) if the situation dictates it. Typically officers use the 1+1 principal, meaning they are always one level higher than the suspect. In the example you have given, the suspect has a taser (level 4). In that case the officer goes up one level to level 5 (lethal force). Now when the officer is allowed to use lethal force is another subject. Hopefully this answers your question. This is exactly right. I was trying to remember the 5 steps my sister told me at one time. She is in the academy just about to graduate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 I would love to know the rate of fatal shooting by police in Canada and Euro countries compared to the USA? I would guess we are higher than those countries. And if so, why ? We're a bunch of wusses who are scaredy cats who have to have guns to feel safe. So with these guns goes a lot of violence from some of the people who have them or illegally sell them. If Joe-Bob Neckred sells a gun of his to a friend this should be/or is an illegal sale. Because guns are plentiful in this country it's very easy for someone to get one. I think Michael Moore touched upon that exact issue in his "documentary" about gun control. I don't remember the name of it, and I don't really care for Michael Moore, but it was interesting. Bowling for Columbine. From reading the article, it sounds like the suspect freshly committed a misdemeanor or felony and was getting combative with police. You have to keep in mind that on an officer's belt he has a taser, pepermace, ASP, knife and a gun. When the suspect dry stunned the officer he could easily have grabbed another weapon off the officer's belt and used it on him or another officer. Trust me, officers do not want to shoot someone. You get taken off the road and put on a desk for 6 months while they investigate if it was a good shoot or not. Then you are almost guaranteed a civil lawsuit from the victim's* family no matter what the circumstances were. There are alot of different ways this situation could have worked out. If there was more of a reactionary gap the officers could have tried another intermediate weapon such as pepermace or ASP. They could have had a standoff and waited for more units to arrive. You can always 'what if' a situation to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 This is exactly right. I was trying to remember the 5 steps my sister told me at one time. She is in the academy just about to graduate. So what does she do with the handcuffs in her off time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBye Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 So what does she do with the handcuffs in her off time? How the should I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 How the should I know? You know yall talk about this stuff when you have all your girlfriends over for the slumber parties. Somewhere between the tickle fight and the showers. There's no reason to hide this from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 How the should I know? You know yall talk about this stuff when you have all your girlfriends over for the slumber parties. Somewhere between the tickle fight and the showers. There's no reason to hide this from us. What he said!! He just forgot the jello wrestling and boob comparing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Here's the protocol for someone being pulled over (told to me by a cop who's a friend). Pull off to the side of the road and place your hands on the steering wheel in sight of the officer. When he arrives roll down the window. This helps the officer know that you don't have anything in your hands where he can't see them. When I've been pulled over and had to get something out of my glove compartment some of the officers put a hand on their gun. This doesn't bother me because traffic stops are very dangerous for cops. I'm sure some A-Holes are offended but they are incredibly self centered and incredibly stupid. I've heard of a couple extra steps. First is to have your window already rolled down before they get to you. Second is to turn off the vehicle, and place the keys on the dash in their sight when they walk up. Also, make sure you pull over as far as you can so the cop is not having to stand in the traffic lane while dealing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 I've heard of a couple extra steps. First is to have your window already rolled down before they get to you. Second is to turn off the vehicle, and place the keys on the dash in their sight when they walk up. Also, make sure you pull over as far as you can so the cop is not having to stand in the traffic lane while dealing with you. Good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I've heard of a couple extra steps. First is to have your window already rolled down before they get to you. Second is to turn off the vehicle, and place the keys on the dash in their sight when they walk up. Also, make sure you pull over as far as you can so the cop is not having to stand in the traffic lane while dealing with you. I did all of that and he STILL shot at me when I quickly threw my keys in the ignition and sped off! What else do these guys want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBye Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 What he said!! He just forgot the jello wrestling and boob comparing. How much should I reveal...I wonder...? Hmmmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Dude, all I want to hear is someone in law enforcement tell me what their protocol is when there are three officers and one unarmed assailant. I'm sure that my ignorance, naivete, foolishness, and whatever else I'm exhibiting can be solved pretty quickly...I just want to know what they are trained to do in this sort of situation. They may not want to get into a fight with a possible drug addict due to the distinct possibility of blood transfer. I know that doesn't answer your protocol question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Jarhead Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I've heard of a couple extra steps. First is to have your window already rolled down before they get to you. Second is to turn off the vehicle, and place the keys on the dash in their sight when they walk up. Also, make sure you pull over as far as you can so the cop is not having to stand in the traffic lane while dealing with you. Throwing in a "Sir" or "Maam" won't hurt either. I can't tell you how many tickets I've gotten out of by being polite, making the officer feel that I was not a threat, and admitting when I knew I did something wrong. Also, if caught, pull over as soon as it is safe for the officer and yourself. It shows that you are concsious that you made a mistake and know better. Many officers will give you a break if you show a bit of humility and respect. Traffic cops seem to be less forgiving though as that is their purpose in life, but many officers will cut you some slack. I also suppose it doesn't hurt that I have a USMC sticker on my rig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 We're a bunch of wusses who are scaredy cats who have to have guns to feel safe. I'm sure your "bravery" will protect you from a criminal with a gun or knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I've heard of a couple extra steps. First is to have your window already rolled down before they get to you. Second is to turn off the vehicle, and place the keys on the dash in their sight when they walk up. Also, make sure you pull over as far as you can so the cop is not having to stand in the traffic lane while dealing with you. I have also been told that if you have a pistol permit and are carrying legally at the time of a traffic stop, you hand your permit to the officer with your license. It is a very responsible and calm way to inform the officer that you are legally armed. I have heard horror stories about people informing an officer that they have a gun and being drawn on and put on the pavement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Throwing in a "Sir" or "Maam" won't hurt either. I can't tell you how many tickets I've gotten out of by being polite, making the officer feel that I was not a threat, and admitting when I knew I did something wrong. Me too. In fact, all of them since I turned 30. It really isn't that hard. Cops are people too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 They may not want to get into a fight with a possible drug addict due to the distinct possibility of blood transfer. I know that doesn't answer your protocol question. Yeah, I imagine that's a pretty big fear for them...I know it would be for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 How much should I reveal...I wonder...? Hmmmmm... All of it baby! All of it! They may not want to get into a fight with a possible drug addict due to the distinct possibility of blood transfer. I know that doesn't answer your protocol question. There are diseases from blood transfer too. Throwing in a "Sir" or "Maam" won't hurt either. I can't tell you how many tickets I've gotten out of by being polite, making the officer feel that I was not a threat, and admitting when I knew I did something wrong. Also, if caught, pull over as soon as it is safe for the officer and yourself. It shows that you are concsious that you made a mistake and know better. Many officers will give you a break if you show a bit of humility and respect. Traffic cops seem to be less forgiving though as that is their purpose in life, but many officers will cut you some slack. I also suppose it doesn't hurt that I have a USMC sticker on my rig... I do all that and I've never just gotten a warning. I'm sure your "bravery" will protect you from a criminal with a gun or knife. So let's take a look at this. You're walking down the street and a guy comes up behind you with a gun or knife and sticks it in your back. What is your gun do for you then. It's going to be given to a criminal to keep him from killing you. I have lived 43 years, 10 in the city, and I've never been robbed. A guy approached me, once, and asked me to give him my wallet and I told him he could try to get it and he left. He didn't have a weapon and I'm 5'5" he was over six feet. The odds of your getting robbed are slim. Your odds of getting robbed where a gun would help you are slim to none. So yes if you believe that a situation will arise where a gun would help you then you're a wuss who must surround their car with several feet of bubble wrap in case you get into an accident which is a lot more likely. Maybe you're just a guy who gets a stiffy from shooting a gun and having that feeling of power from your big, bad gun! There is very little chance you'll ever need to legitimately use one. You'll certainly never need a semi-automatic gun. So keep quaking in your panties every time there's a knock at the door and use a good detergent to get out the stains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I do all that and I've never just gotten a warning. Do you have a Hillary Clinton bumper sticker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Do you have a Hillary Clinton bumper sticker? I don't put them on my car. Seriously, does anybody know someone who said I'm voting for candidate X because I saw a bumper sticker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I don't put them on my car. Seriously, does anybody know someone who said I'm voting for candidate X because I saw a bumper sticker? What I find funny are people that don't take them off after an election, especially if your candidate loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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