IMO, at this point if Lynch is guilty, he's gotta go

[X. Benedict]

If this thread is any indication of what the jury pool may look like, the man is better off keeping silent.

[LynchMob23]

Is the desire to remove Lynch from the roster a backlash of the "Bills Character" issue? Because players have done far worse and never got caught (or when they got caught let go quickly) or is this an "I'm morally superior to NFL Players, Lynch in particular" issue?

 

Because either way it doesn't make sense. We know only what is in the press and what people have assumed based on that. As someone in another post stated, what if the driver was a fringe player or draftee?

 

Or, for those of you who desire Lynch to be cut, what if the occupants of the vehicle were Evans, Lynch, McCargo and Poz? You really want all four of them cut, because if the evil Mr. Lynch hit this schoolteacher as she was trying to cross her class (as some are now displaying this woman metaphorically speaking) those guys would be just as guilty for not coming forward.

[KD in CA]

Answer: I don't drink and drive, but if I hit someone with a car I would not leave them for dead to start with. No insurance, suspended license....unlicensed operator.....no such circumstance would allow me to leave some stranger for dead in the street. That is beyond F'd up. We all know why he would do it, but they are all the wrong reasons.

 

Oh boy, another "left for dead" post! I guess it's hard to get the outrage amped up if you say "left for slightly shaken up", huh?

 

 

It's you that needs help from a counselor.

You actually believe that rational people will struggle not to cheer when he scores a td for the Bills ?

He could score 1000 td's and there wouldn't be a cell in my body cheering for him or wanting to.

 

Football is way too high on your priority list.

 

Apparently self indulgent moral outrage is a little too high on your priority list.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

It's pathetic isn't it ?

Do you believe the lack of intelligence out there ?

It's hard for me to except how twisted these fanatics are.

 

 

Nice variation on the "your stupid" post!

[X. Benedict]

Nice variation on the "your stupid" post!

never exclude the twisted.

[Lurker]

Seriously, though -- I'm with you guys, but I'm really enjoying the back-and-forth pissing matches in this thread. Very entertaining. We really need a popcorn smiley.

Pissing on one another is all this place does anymore. A hip wader or raincoat smiley would be more appropriate, given the proclivities of most posters.

[LynchMob23]

Great Post by LifetimeBillsfan on the 'zone: (apologies if cross board quotes/reposting is not allowed)

 

 

"It appears to me that those who are calling for Marshawn Lynch to talk to the Buffalo PD or the DA or make a statement about the incident that occurred with his SUV haven't watched many episodes of "Law and Order", "The First 48" or "Homicide: Life On The Streets", let alone ever been "Mirandized".

 

The Miranda Warning is a statement that the police are required to read/state whenever they place a person under arrest. Part of that warning states: "You have a right to remain silent. Anything that you say can and will be used against you in a court of law...."

 

The Miranda Warning also states that you have a right to an attorney. If you ask for an attorney, all questioning by the police must cease until your attorney is present--in order to protect your right against self-incrimination. And, the first thing that any criminal defense attorney will tell his/her client is not to say anything to the police (or anyone else for that matter).

 

Why? Because "anything that you say can and will be used against you in a court of law".

 

Not "for" you. "Against" you.

 

This is the case whether you are innocent or guilty. But, especially if you have done something, anything in violation of the law.

 

If you do talk to the police, they can say anything--including lie to you outright--in an effort to get you to make an incriminating statement--that can then be used against you in a court of law.

 

If you have any sense at all, you say absolutely nothing unless instructed to do so by your attorney. Why? Because your lawyer is there to represent your interests and can speak for you. Also, because your attorney knows the law and you do not. Because your lawyer knows what can be said without incriminating you and how to say it and you do not. And, because "anything that you say can and will be used against you in a court of law".

 

In order for you to be convicted of a criminal offense, the police and DA must have sufficient proof to convince a judge or a jury of your peers (usually drawn from the local community) that you committed the offense that they allege "beyond a reasonable doubt". The burden of proof in a civil case being, "by a preponderance of the evidence", is not as great.

 

In most states, NY State being one I believe, there is a requirement of pre-trial "discovery" placed on the prosecution. That is a requirement that the prosecution must show the defense all of the evidence that it intends to present at trial before the trial begins.

 

"Discovery" gives the defense attorney a chance to not only see the evidence, but be in a position to advise his/her client as to whether the prosecution has a strong enough case to be likely to get a conviction. In which case, the attorney may advise his/her client to accept a plea arrangement with the DA that avoids a trial and, usually, will result in a lesser charge and/or sentence than would likely be the result if the case were to go to trial.

 

Whereas the police can lie or say anything that they want during an interview or interrogation, the law does not allow the DA's office to hide or lie about the evidence that it has and intends to use at trial during the "discovery" phase of a criminal proceeding. If the DA's office does lie or deliberately attempt to deceive the defense during "discovery", any conviction obtained as a result can be overturned on appeal and the attorneys involved risk being censured. So, it is not something that the DA's office is likely to attempt to do, particularly in a high-profile case.

 

So, how does all of this apply to the Marshawn Lynch case?

 

First of all, it appears that Lynch immediately did the smart thing and "lawyered up". That means that the Buffalo police cannot interview or interrogate him unless his attorney is present. Apparently it took his attorney a couple of days to arrive in Buffalo.

 

Second, it appears that Lynch's attorney gave Marshawn the advice that any good criminal attorney would give him, telling him not to speak with anyone about the incident. Why? Because "anything that he says can and will be used against him in a court of law"!

 

Third, it appears that Lynch is following his attorney's advice and not saying anything.

 

Fourth, Lynch is under no obligation to speak with the police or the DA's office voluntarily, with or without his attorney present. Because--do I have to say it again?--anything that he says can and will be used against him in a court of law. If the police want to interrogate him, they can formally invite his attorney to bring him in or they can simply bring him in themselves. But, they cannot ask him to answer any questions without his lawyer being present.

 

Fifth, it appears that Lynch's lawyer does not want Marshawn to talk with the police, who can lie through their teeth if they want to about what they have on Marshawn, until he has first discussed the case with the DA and at least informally discovered what the police and the DA have on Lynch at this point. Apparently, Lynch's attorney spoke with DA Clark on Friday and will be meeting with him again (Monday, I believe the Buffalo News reported).

 

Now, let me stop here for a moment to comment:

 

1.) Whether he was driving the SUV that hit the woman or not, there are a lot of reasons why Lynch and his attorney may not want him to meet with the police or even issue a statement before it is absolutely necessary. Remember, anything that he says can and will be used, if not against him, against someone else. Also, the police can say whatever they want to him to induce him to say something that can then be used against him--or someone else.

 

2.) So, why should Lynch say anything to the police or to anyone at this point? For PR's sake? If Lynch was anywhere near that SUV that night--whether he was the driver, a passenger, or loaned the car to someone else--forget about PR: Lynch's public image is going to be damaged no matter what, this is an issue of someone possibly going to jail and/or being sued for a lot of money. Any attorney worth his salt would tell Marshawn to keep his mouth shut and issue no statements whatsoever until absolutely necessary. Whatever repairs can be made to his public image can be made afterwards--and are more likely to be made if he is able to play football and not while spending time in jail or on the suspended list.

 

3.) While Marshawn is keeping his mouth shut and not talking to the police or the DA, his attorney is talking to the DA. And, they are not talking about the weather in Buffalo at this time of year. If he is doing his job as well as he appears to be from what has been reported, Lynch's lawyer is talking with the DA about what the police have on his client, what kind of charges they want to file, and perhaps even about a possible plea arrangement that might allow his client to avoid jail time and a suspension by the NFL commissioner (he may even be making discreet inquiries about how the NFL office would react to Lynch pleading out to various charges).

 

These being lawyers and, in the case of the DA, politicians, there may even be some discussions about how much publicity the DA wants to get out of this case and what would be the best settlement for the DA politically as well.

 

4.) The Bills may not have said anything publicly about the incident or Marshawn's involvement, but they have millions of dollars invested in him and in any other players who may have been with him. That being the case, you can bet that they have been talking, behind the scenes, with the DA and Lynch's lawyer as well. The last thing the Bills want to see happen is Lynch being taken on a "perp walk" in front of the local media or have their lockerroom atmosphere destroyed because Lynch names a fellow teammate as the one driving the car or says that it was the teammates who were his passengers who urged him to flee the scene of the accident, etc.

 

As it stands now, without any tests proving that he was legally impaired by alcohol at the time of the accident, at worst, Marshawn Lynch stands to be charged with a single count of leaving the scene of an accident if the police and DA can produce enough evidence that he was the driver. It is a Class A misdemeanor that can possibly be pled down to a lesser charge as a first offense. No jail time. Probably no suspension by the NFL as a first offense, either.

 

Yes, his reputation and public image will be harmed. Yes, his character will be called into question. But, those are things that can be repaired, at least somewhat, and often are forgotten if not repeated. Yes, he will likely be sued by the woman who was injured and will probably have to pay her a hefty amount of cash. But, money can be replaced. Time cannot.

 

If Lynch says anything more than he has before he is charged (or afterwards for that matter), if he agrees to meet with the police and refuses to answer their questions, etc., he would be opening himself--and/or possibly a couple of his teammates as well--up to a variety of other charges that could cost him FAR more than what he stands to lose at this point. Depending on who else may have been in his SUV when it struck the woman, that could also have a disastrous impact on the Bills lockerroom as well.

 

I think it is safe to say that Lynch, his attorney, the Bills and even the DA and Buffalo Police Department know this. And, they are going to try to resolve this case in a way that will allow all of the parties involved to come out of it with the least amount of damage and the most amount of favorable publicity that they can.

 

Now, undoubtedly, there are some who will question whether this is "right" or not. "Right" has nothing to do with it. It isn't about what is "right" or moral. It is about the law and how the application of the law works in this country and in the State of New York.

 

Bills fans can question what is right or wrong in this instance. They can debate whether Lynch was driving or not; whether he was legally impaired or drunk at the time of the accident; who was in the car with him; why he didn't stop after hitting the woman, if he was driving; etc., etc., etc. None of that matters.

 

Cold as it may sound, the only thing that matters is what the Buffalo PD and the DA's office can prove in a court of law and what they cannot. And, as Marshawn Lynch's attorney undoubtedly knows, it does not behoove Lynch to say or do anything that would give them anything more that they can use against him in a court of law than they are able to get from other sources.

 

Like it or not--and you may very well not like it at all--that is how the law works. And, it is before the law and not the court of public opinion that this case will ultimately be resolved."

[mcjeff215]

Great Post by LifetimeBillsfan on the 'zone: (apologies if cross board quotes/reposting is not allowed)

 

 

"It appears to me that those who are calling for Marshawn Lynch to talk to the Buffalo PD or the DA or make a statement about the incident that occurred with his SUV haven't watched many episodes of "Law and Order", "The First 48" or "Homicide: Life On The Streets", let alone ever been "Mirandized".

 

....

 

Like it or not--and you may very well not like it at all--that is how the law works. And, it is before the law and not the court of public opinion that this case will ultimately be resolved."

 

Pin it. Close the rest. Wonderful.

[bills44]

Great Post by LifetimeBillsfan on the 'zone: (apologies if cross board quotes/reposting is not allowed)

 

 

"It appears to me that those who are calling for Marshawn Lynch to talk to the Buffalo PD or the DA or make a statement about the incident that occurred with his SUV haven't watched many episodes of "Law and Order", "The First 48" or "Homicide: Life On The Streets", let alone ever been "Mirandized".

 

The Miranda Warning is a statement that the police are required to read/state whenever they place a person under arrest. Part of that warning states: "You have a right to remain silent. Anything that you say can and will be used against you in a court of law...."

 

The Miranda Warning also states that you have a right to an attorney. If you ask for an attorney, all questioning by the police must cease until your attorney is present--in order to protect your right against self-incrimination. And, the first thing that any criminal defense attorney will tell his/her client is not to say anything to the police (or anyone else for that matter).

 

Why? Because "anything that you say can and will be used against you in a court of law".

 

Not "for" you. "Against" you.

 

This is the case whether you are innocent or guilty. But, especially if you have done something, anything in violation of the law.

 

If you do talk to the police, they can say anything--including lie to you outright--in an effort to get you to make an incriminating statement--that can then be used against you in a court of law.

 

If you have any sense at all, you say absolutely nothing unless instructed to do so by your attorney. Why? Because your lawyer is there to represent your interests and can speak for you. Also, because your attorney knows the law and you do not. Because your lawyer knows what can be said without incriminating you and how to say it and you do not. And, because "anything that you say can and will be used against you in a court of law".

 

In order for you to be convicted of a criminal offense, the police and DA must have sufficient proof to convince a judge or a jury of your peers (usually drawn from the local community) that you committed the offense that they allege "beyond a reasonable doubt". The burden of proof in a civil case being, "by a preponderance of the evidence", is not as great.

 

In most states, NY State being one I believe, there is a requirement of pre-trial "discovery" placed on the prosecution. That is a requirement that the prosecution must show the defense all of the evidence that it intends to present at trial before the trial begins.

 

"Discovery" gives the defense attorney a chance to not only see the evidence, but be in a position to advise his/her client as to whether the prosecution has a strong enough case to be likely to get a conviction. In which case, the attorney may advise his/her client to accept a plea arrangement with the DA that avoids a trial and, usually, will result in a lesser charge and/or sentence than would likely be the result if the case were to go to trial.

 

Whereas the police can lie or say anything that they want during an interview or interrogation, the law does not allow the DA's office to hide or lie about the evidence that it has and intends to use at trial during the "discovery" phase of a criminal proceeding. If the DA's office does lie or deliberately attempt to deceive the defense during "discovery", any conviction obtained as a result can be overturned on appeal and the attorneys involved risk being censured. So, it is not something that the DA's office is likely to attempt to do, particularly in a high-profile case.

 

So, how does all of this apply to the Marshawn Lynch case?

 

First of all, it appears that Lynch immediately did the smart thing and "lawyered up". That means that the Buffalo police cannot interview or interrogate him unless his attorney is present. Apparently it took his attorney a couple of days to arrive in Buffalo.

 

Second, it appears that Lynch's attorney gave Marshawn the advice that any good criminal attorney would give him, telling him not to speak with anyone about the incident. Why? Because "anything that he says can and will be used against him in a court of law"!

 

Third, it appears that Lynch is following his attorney's advice and not saying anything.

 

Fourth, Lynch is under no obligation to speak with the police or the DA's office voluntarily, with or without his attorney present. Because--do I have to say it again?--anything that he says can and will be used against him in a court of law. If the police want to interrogate him, they can formally invite his attorney to bring him in or they can simply bring him in themselves. But, they cannot ask him to answer any questions without his lawyer being present.

 

Fifth, it appears that Lynch's lawyer does not want Marshawn to talk with the police, who can lie through their teeth if they want to about what they have on Marshawn, until he has first discussed the case with the DA and at least informally discovered what the police and the DA have on Lynch at this point. Apparently, Lynch's attorney spoke with DA Clark on Friday and will be meeting with him again (Monday, I believe the Buffalo News reported).

 

Now, let me stop here for a moment to comment:

 

1.) Whether he was driving the SUV that hit the woman or not, there are a lot of reasons why Lynch and his attorney may not want him to meet with the police or even issue a statement before it is absolutely necessary. Remember, anything that he says can and will be used, if not against him, against someone else. Also, the police can say whatever they want to him to induce him to say something that can then be used against him--or someone else.

 

2.) So, why should Lynch say anything to the police or to anyone at this point? For PR's sake? If Lynch was anywhere near that SUV that night--whether he was the driver, a passenger, or loaned the car to someone else--forget about PR: Lynch's public image is going to be damaged no matter what, this is an issue of someone possibly going to jail and/or being sued for a lot of money. Any attorney worth his salt would tell Marshawn to keep his mouth shut and issue no statements whatsoever until absolutely necessary. Whatever repairs can be made to his public image can be made afterwards--and are more likely to be made if he is able to play football and not while spending time in jail or on the suspended list.

 

3.) While Marshawn is keeping his mouth shut and not talking to the police or the DA, his attorney is talking to the DA. And, they are not talking about the weather in Buffalo at this time of year. If he is doing his job as well as he appears to be from what has been reported, Lynch's lawyer is talking with the DA about what the police have on his client, what kind of charges they want to file, and perhaps even about a possible plea arrangement that might allow his client to avoid jail time and a suspension by the NFL commissioner (he may even be making discreet inquiries about how the NFL office would react to Lynch pleading out to various charges).

 

These being lawyers and, in the case of the DA, politicians, there may even be some discussions about how much publicity the DA wants to get out of this case and what would be the best settlement for the DA politically as well.

 

4.) The Bills may not have said anything publicly about the incident or Marshawn's involvement, but they have millions of dollars invested in him and in any other players who may have been with him. That being the case, you can bet that they have been talking, behind the scenes, with the DA and Lynch's lawyer as well. The last thing the Bills want to see happen is Lynch being taken on a "perp walk" in front of the local media or have their lockerroom atmosphere destroyed because Lynch names a fellow teammate as the one driving the car or says that it was the teammates who were his passengers who urged him to flee the scene of the accident, etc.

 

As it stands now, without any tests proving that he was legally impaired by alcohol at the time of the accident, at worst, Marshawn Lynch stands to be charged with a single count of leaving the scene of an accident if the police and DA can produce enough evidence that he was the driver. It is a Class A misdemeanor that can possibly be pled down to a lesser charge as a first offense. No jail time. Probably no suspension by the NFL as a first offense, either.

 

Yes, his reputation and public image will be harmed. Yes, his character will be called into question. But, those are things that can be repaired, at least somewhat, and often are forgotten if not repeated. Yes, he will likely be sued by the woman who was injured and will probably have to pay her a hefty amount of cash. But, money can be replaced. Time cannot.

 

If Lynch says anything more than he has before he is charged (or afterwards for that matter), if he agrees to meet with the police and refuses to answer their questions, etc., he would be opening himself--and/or possibly a couple of his teammates as well--up to a variety of other charges that could cost him FAR more than what he stands to lose at this point. Depending on who else may have been in his SUV when it struck the woman, that could also have a disastrous impact on the Bills lockerroom as well.

 

I think it is safe to say that Lynch, his attorney, the Bills and even the DA and Buffalo Police Department know this. And, they are going to try to resolve this case in a way that will allow all of the parties involved to come out of it with the least amount of damage and the most amount of favorable publicity that they can.

 

Now, undoubtedly, there are some who will question whether this is "right" or not. "Right" has nothing to do with it. It isn't about what is "right" or moral. It is about the law and how the application of the law works in this country and in the State of New York.

 

Bills fans can question what is right or wrong in this instance. They can debate whether Lynch was driving or not; whether he was legally impaired or drunk at the time of the accident; who was in the car with him; why he didn't stop after hitting the woman, if he was driving; etc., etc., etc. None of that matters.

 

Cold as it may sound, the only thing that matters is what the Buffalo PD and the DA's office can prove in a court of law and what they cannot. And, as Marshawn Lynch's attorney undoubtedly knows, it does not behoove Lynch to say or do anything that would give them anything more that they can use against him in a court of law than they are able to get from other sources.

 

Like it or not--and you may very well not like it at all--that is how the law works. And, it is before the law and not the court of public opinion that this case will ultimately be resolved."

 

Nice to see someone has common sense.

[Bmwolf21]

Pissing on one another is all this place does anymore. A hip wader or raincoat smiley would be more appropriate, given the proclivities of most posters.

You're not kidding. The offseason really brings them out of the woodwork, doesn't it...

[KD in CA]

Great Post by LifetimeBillsfan on the 'zone:

......

 

Well that may pass for ok on the 'Zone, but fortunately over here we have posters with much higher standards. Folks here would not stoop to the level of doing anything in their own self interest like seeking legal counsel or preparing a defense. Rather they would march right into the police station and offer a full confession, waiving a jury trial and asking to be immediately imprisoned for a lengthy sentence so as to make restitution for brutally and savagely leaving the girl for dead seven stitches.

 

 

In all seriousness, are there any lawyers here than can comment intelligently on the typical punishment in such a case? As the post above opines, isn't jail time pretty unlikely for a first offense misdemeanor?