ndirish1978 Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I actually do like most of their posts, so this gets a nod from me. http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/05/...ewis-overrated/
stuckincincy Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Maybe it's just me - but isn't it better to have a rated coach instead of an underrated coach?
keepthefaith Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I actually do like most of their posts, so this gets a nod from me. http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/05/...ewis-overrated/ He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach.
ans4e64 Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach. Well then you saw how is aweful talent overachieved and performed adequately in almost every circumstance.
generaLee83 Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach. Completely agreed. I actually think he's overrated which is pretty terrible considering his career losing record as a coach. Jauron got way too much credit for the Bills 7-9 season last year. It was his poor decision making which prevented this team from being 9-7 and possibly even 10-6.
keepthefaith Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Completely agreed. I actually think he's overrated which is pretty terrible considering his career losing record as a coach. Jauron got way too much credit for the Bills 7-9 season last year. It was his poor decision making which prevented this team from being 9-7 and possibly even 10-6. If there's an underrated coach on the Bills staff, my vote goes to Perry Fewell.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Maybe it's just me - but isn't it better to have a rated coach instead of an underrated coach? That's right. Jauron may be seen as underrated because people consider external factors as the reason for his lack of success. What they don't take into account is that in his second go as a full time NFL head coach, the talent he has lacked in some areas on the field is IMO a concession to him. Perception is reality to NFL players, and he brings a lot of losing seasons to the table. That kind of stuff undermines him to vets who want a guy who just gets results. Exit cynical vets or ones who've had success elsewhere. And his reputation as a players coach to a fault means that he needs self motivated, accountable guys in that lockerroom who won't take advantage of his tendency to make excuses for his players. Exit guys like McGahee. A "rated" coach can deal with more types of personalities and win. In essence, they've built this team around Jauron so it's hard for me to call him underrated.
Pyrite Gal Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach. To me the concept of over or under-rated is based less upon raw results and is more a statement of how a team (the buck ultimately stops with the field guy in charge whether he is given more credit or more blame than he deserves) performs versus expectations. The simple fact is that Jauron can coach teams to a below average result (let's say 7-9) but if the conventional wisdom is that the team will actually end up with a significantly below average result (lets say 5-11) then if this happens on a recurring basis he can easily be judged to be under-rated. The "ratings" of the conventional wisdom can also be influenced by outside of normal coaching factors such as injuries suffered or turmoil in the GM/business side of the team. I think that the below average results of the teams coached by Jauron do often exceed the expectations of the conventional wisdom. In the end the awarding of the soubriquet or over or under-rated has as much to do with the "extenuating circumstances" or excuses being treated as reasons as it has to do with the raw results achieved. By this measure Jauron can easily be seen as under-rated due to these realities where the notion calls for viewing excuses as reasons: Chicago- The thing which makes it hard to judge him as under-rated in this case is that he actually is generally rated quite highly by the NFL and most viewers because he got NFL Coach of the Year honors for the 13-3 record. Still this any way you cut it outstanding results achieved is a key to his being judged over or under-rated in the future because the result is the result (however, this shows how random the "over/under-rated" tag can be as some are impressed by the team routinely racking up the great record with a bunch of last second wins while others see the last second nature wins as demonstrating somehow that Jauron is not that good of an HC). To me the result is the result and Jauron deserves plaudits for his team consistently winning games by narrow margins as at least in a few of these cases a game decision made by the HC was ONE of the critical factors which had to have gone right in order for the Bears to win. When one adds to the reality of this result, the reality that Jauron was inherited by a GM who wanted to hire his own guy as HC, this strikes me as the foundation of Jauron having been the HC of a team which produced an outstanding record, but him getting the boot as soon as a poor record allowed rather than him getting a mulligan for the result. It certainly is an "excuse" which does not change at all what the result was. However, we are dealing with the relative judgment of whether he is over or under rated and this mere excuse becomes a reason since we are into the relative. Did Jauron do better than the conventional wisdom estimated? No, not really but the conventional wisdom was so high because Jauron achieved an extraordinary result as HC (whether it was his doing primarily or not is not as important as the results were extraordinarily high at 13-3). However, he is given the benefit of the doubt for this one as they simply did achieve extraordinary results initially with him and when he got canned it was without him getting the benefit of the mulligan extraordinary results usually gives an HC. DET- Here, he took on a job as interim and by definition the previous HC failed so badly he got canned from this extraordinarily bad team. Jauron exceeded the conventional wisdom here because the extraordinarily bad team responded to the switch. They did NOT achieve extraordinary results under him, but (particularly since idiot Millen was still there as GM) even simply showing up and being judged as playing hard exceeded the conventional wisdom for this horrible DET team. BILLs- Like it or not the conventional wisdom was based upon the reality of a 5-11 record racked up under MM/TD in 05. Even in the face of the housecleaning which went on with folks like Mr. BabyMomma and quality older guys like Fletch and quality injured players like TKO the team achieved a result significantly above the CW of 7-0. If Jauron's squad had produced results based on how folks "rated" them even getting worse before they got better and finishing 4-12 would not have been a good thing at all but would not have been an extraordinary departure from where Jauron might have been rated to do. Even with last year, though the CW may well have not unreasonably demanded that he improve on his 7-9 record. The simple fact that this team easily led the NFL in players on the IR is a mere excuse which becomes a reason in assessing whether he was over or under rated. Overall, I care most about the real world and results. I expect Jauron to show reasonable improvement over last year's 7-9 record and he at least should compete if not make the playoffs in 08 or he will need a reason not to be canned IMHO (and actually if the team looks good, improves, and/or has some bad breaks which cost them the playoffs I easily can see sticking with a Jauron who fails to make the playoffs in 08 IF he team is headed in the right direction). However. actual results and whether an HC is over or under rated are two different things. Even more poorly the posts which claim falsely that Jauron has done nothing (like it or not he was coach of the year when his team went 13-3) are simply wrong as they seem to fail to understand that there is a difference between results expectations. Whether Jauron is over/under rated has more to do directly with expectations than results.
Steely Dan Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach. A lot of HC's would have ended up with a 2-14 record after enduring what the Bills did last year. 'Nuff said. Completely agreed. I actually think he's overrated which is pretty terrible considering his career losing record as a coach. Jauron got way too much credit for the Bills 7-9 season last year. It was his poor decision making which prevented this team from being 9-7 and possibly even 10-6. The excuses are over for him. Unless seventeen more players get hurt and five or six are opening day starters he has to make the playoffs. I think they will.
keepthefaith Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 A lot of HC's would have ended up with a 2-14 record after enduring what the Bills did last year. 'Nuff said. The excuses are over for him. Unless seventeen more players get hurt and five or six are opening day starters he has to make the playoffs. I think they will. Really? name some, and I won't accept Hank Bullough or Kay Stevenson. Actually, Jauron is alot like Kay. Nice guy who'll finish last, but he's really nice.
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 A lot of HC's would have ended up with a 2-14 record after enduring what the Bills did last year. 'Nuff said. Hypothetically, if the Bills were in the AFC South, for example, their record last year might not have been much more than 2-14 or 3-13. Really? name some, and I won't accept Hank Bullough or Kay Stevenson. Actually, Jauron is alot like Kay. Nice guy who'll finish last, but he's really nice. Would you accept Rich Kotite?
generaLee83 Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 A lot of HC's would have ended up with a 2-14 record after enduring what the Bills did last year. 'Nuff said. I think it's crazy to have that type of confidence in such a speculation.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Hypothetically, if the Bills were in the AFC South, for example, their record last year might not have been much more than 2-14 or 3-13. Hypothetically, if the Bills were in the NFC West, for example, their record last year might not have been much less than 12-4 or 11-5. Hypothetically speaking, it is extremely dumb to compare things hypothetically.
Steely Dan Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Really? name some, and I won't accept Hank Bullough or Kay Stevenson. Actually, Jauron is alot like Kay. Nice guy who'll finish last, but he's really nice. Lovie Smith, Lane Kiffin, Cam Cameron, Eric Mangini, Scott Linehan, Mike Nolan, Mike Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Herman Edwards, Mike Martz, Jim Mora Jr., Rod Marinelli, Brian Billick and Joe Gibbs.
keepthefaith Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Would you accept Rich Kotite? Hmmmm..... I think Rich would have gotten more wins because he would have stuck with JP all year.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Completely agreed. I actually think he's overrated which is pretty terrible considering his career losing record as a coach. Jauron got way too much credit for the Bills 7-9 season last year. It was his poor decision making which prevented this team from being 9-7 and possibly even 10-6. Obviously, the Dallas game was ultimately decided by a few questionable plays at the end. However, if some recovers an onside kick, they game is over. That's on the players. Also, who had the Bills winning that game? We had a rookie QB in his 2nd start, and UDFAs at MLB, corner, and FS (a receiver making the switch to FS) against an undefeated Super Bowl contender. Who even had the Bills being close in that game??? Everything in life is perspective. Is the glass half full or is it half empty. Of course, you can be a bitter fan and come to a Bills board and jsut talk about how much Jauron sucks. However as a Bills fan, I can enjoy this offseason and be excited that this is the best roster Jauron has ever had. I can look at the positives of last season and just picture what a healthy team (guys like Poz, Stroud, McKelvin, etc.) could do. But I guess I'm just a loser for that kinda of talk.
keepthefaith Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Lovie Smith, Lane Kiffin, Cam Cameron, Eric Mangini, Scott Linehan, Mike Nolan, Mike Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Herman Edwards, Mike Martz, Jim Mora Jr., Rod Marinelli, Brian Billick and Joe Gibbs. I think most of these guys can coach circles around "Captain Conservatism". Most, but not all. ".
Steely Dan Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Lovie Smith, Lane Kiffin, Cam Cameron, Eric Mangini, Scott Linehan, Mike Nolan, Mike Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Herman Edwards, Mike Martz, Jim Mora Jr., Rod Marinelli, Brian Billick and Joe Gibbs. I think most of these guys can coach circles around "Captain Conservatism". Most, but not all. ". Last years records: Bills - 7-9 Panthers - 7-9 Bears - 7-9 Bengals - 7-9 Bronco's - 7-9 Saints - 7-9 Detroit - 7-9 Ravens - 5-11 49ers - 5-11 Falcons - 4-12 Cheifs - 4-12 Jets - 4-12 Raiders - 4-12 St. Louis - 3-13 Miami - 1-15 13 teams had the same or worse records than Buffalo last year. The Bills were one of the youngest teams in the NFL last year and had 17 injuries, the most in the league and that also included Kevin Everett's catastrophic injury in the first game, and they still finished the same or better than 13 teams that had much better situations all year. Some of those HC's I left off the list but looking at it now I probably should have put them on the list too. 'Nuff said.
ax4782 Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Would you accept Rich Kotite? Hmmmm..... I think Rich would have gotten more wins because he would have stuck with JP all year. I see. So outside factors do matter in evaluating a coach, so long as they are the factors that you are primarily concerned with? The fact is the realities of football, like injury and overall team talent play a huge role, not only in the team's overall success, but also in the decisions that a coach reasonably has open to him. To suggest that Jauron is completely responsible for every bad team he has been forced to coach is ridiculous. I think being able to get that team last year motivated to play as well as they did speaks volumes. Not only did he get them to play, they were in the playoff race until Week 15. Not too many other teams with that number of injuries would have been able to say that. And IMO, all of you who think that Jauron is such a terrible coach, I wonder what you would have said had they actually made the playoffs last year, hypothetically speaking?
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Hypothetically, if the Bills were in the NFC West, for example, their record last year might not have been much less than 12-4 or 11-5. Really? Was the NFC West so much inferior to the high-powered AFC East? Let's see, the NFC West played the NFC South and the AFC North. So really, you're saying the Bills would've won 5 more games because they'd, I guess, sweep the NFC West, which would only get them to 9-7. So the other 3 games would have to come against the AFC North (which they went 2-2 against) the NFC South (they went 1-3 against the NFC East; Atlanta and Carolina arguably nets 1 more win; we're up to 10), or wins against the 2 free opponents (which they whiffed on going 0-2). On the other hand, this is optimistic and a few bumps in the road puts the Bills right back to hovering at around 8-8 with all the rest of the middling also-rans. Hypothetically speaking, it is extremely dumb to compare things hypothetically. Tell that to the people that keep posting the Bills wouldn't have won more than 3 games without Jauron.
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