olivier in france Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 You know they charge a toll on the Welland Canal around the Falls? The 6 locks and 2 guard locks that exist there? You think being in Canada has something to do with that? What really surprise me here is that the US have kept all those waterways in the public sector. With so many thing private in the US it's a little surprising for me. I had not thought about it but we worked in the same field for a while: During my junior and senior years in college i worked part time at the Compagnie Nationale du Rhone HQs in Lyon. This is the public company that manage all the infrastructures on the Rhone bassin. (was working for their environmental division finding new markets for their production excess of wild plants seeds that they produced themselves to revegetalize the river banks after works...)
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 What really surprise me here is that the US have kept all those waterways in the public sector. With so many thing private in the US it's a little surprising for me. I had not thought about it but we worked in the same field for a while: During my junior and senior years in college i worked part time at the Compagnie Nationale du Rhone HQs in Lyon. This is the public company that manage all the infrastructures on the Rhone bassin. (was working for their environmental division finding new markets for their production excess of wild plants seeds that they produced themselves to revegetalize the river banks after works...) Depends on tonnage and commerical cargo... The waterways in Wisconsin used to be Corps run, they were passed to the I think the WI DNR back some time ago... 1980's?? And there is a push afloat to use a middle-man in what amounts to gov't contractors... The commerical towing industry is really opposed... They have a direct line to the USACE now... Why would they want to go through a contractor? Chicago Harbor Lock (downtown on the Chicago River) has been run by contract personnel since the Corps took over operations from the Chicago Sanitary District back in the early 1970's... They do a ton of passenger boats, but aren't nearly as busy with commercial cargo... Not even a million tons a year... Compared to our 10 or so million (which increases as you go down river) on the Calumet and 1,000's of empties... Pleasure boats have always been high in this area with both locks here exceeding well over 25-30k a year that transit... On crowded summer weekends it is not uncommon to be running non-stop the entire weekend 24/7, with 50 or more small vessels in the lock chamber a pop... Of course we are open 24/7/365, ice and all... Downtown in the Loop on the Chicago River the city is expanding the "river walk" on both sides, basically making the river narrower... Commercial cargo interests have said when that is finsished, they will basically give up must commercial cargo through the downtown stretch... That leads me to BFLO... You can't live on condos and tourism alone, not even in a huge town like Chicago... See the problem? There always has to be a core base commercially.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 !@#$'em. Just take it from the mouth of the St. Lawerence. You'll get it before they do!! You do realize that the mouth of the St. Lawrence is at the Atlantic Ocean and there by salty? The Great Lakes are fed by a number of source rivers but empties at the St. Lawrence. PTR
erynthered Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 You do realize that the mouth of the St. Lawrence is at the Atlantic Ocean and there by salty? The Great Lakes are fed by a number of source rivers but empties at the St. Lawrence. PTR Maybe if you would have read just a little bit more of the thread LIKE 16 MORE POSTS, you would have seen that I was corrected and admitted my error. Your redundancy is irritating. Go away Flea. http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1048482
RayFinkle Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 !@#$'em. Just take it from the mouth of the St. Lawerence. You'll get it before they do!! You do realize that the mouth of the St. Lawrence is at the Atlantic Ocean and there by salty? The Great Lakes are fed by a number of source rivers but empties at the St. Lawrence.
erynthered Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 You do realize that the mouth of the St. Lawrence is at the Atlantic Ocean and there by salty? The Great Lakes are fed by a number of source rivers but empties at the St. Lawrence. Stern sucks. It's been 15 years since he was funny. I hate him but I love to diss him on message boards.
ConradDobler Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Err... Um... Back to the original topic? The will be no diversion of fresh water from WNY until the cost of that diversion can be underwritten by WNY taxpayers. See NYPA Robert Moses plant vs. WNY electric rates. If it ain't a lose-lose proposition, we ain't interested.
Wacka Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 Everybody is forgetting that it a a joint ownership between the US and Canada. They would have to sign off on it also.
olivier in france Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 Everybody is forgetting that it a a joint ownership between the US and Canada. They would have to sign off on it also. well it looks like (according to the link of "endzonecrew"'s post ) Ontario and Quebec have or will sign...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 Everybody is forgetting that it a a joint ownership between the US and Canada. They would have to sign off on it also. Ha! Like I said... It is already happening now... I divert more water in 15 minutes than a family of four can use in 10 years! Going the other way you say? You should have seen it a couple of weeks ago when rain caused our lower pool below the dam to be higher than the lake (5 feet higher... Normally 2 lower)... Normally in those cases, we button up the dam and close the lock and let them handle it down river... But, this time we had over 10 inches of rain... For one of the first times ever we actually sent the water BACK to lake... Yep... And man was it a cesspool of pollution... I think they are still trying to figure out exactly how much pollution entered the lake... I am all for sending it back... But at what cost? Polluting 4/5th's of the GL's? Think about... Lake Michigan and Lake Huron are the same elevation above mean sea level... Water leaves Lake Michigan and totally refreshes itself about every 100 years... Lake Erie takes about 10 years! Now, look at the map... This end is the "gall bladder"... And when we dump it back... It is like bile backing up. Be prepared for more beach closings, mass pollution, etc.. etc.. Also... Last time I looked... Lake Michigan is ALL in the US... I think the US Supreme court has set diversion at Chicago (Michigan v. Illinois... 1969, 1996) at about 3,600 cubic feet per second. I am all for enviro concerns... But, they better be careful and not go off half-cocked... They better think about ALL the situations or we will end up with side sypmtoms! Side effects? You rememebr zebra mussles and other exotics were basically brought here by enviro policies that mandated clean ballast water... Living things live better in clean water... Just my 2 cents.
olivier in france Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 Ha! Like I said... It is already happening now... I divert more water in 15 minutes than a family of four can use in 10 years! Going the other way you say? You should have seen it a couple of weeks ago when rain caused our lower pool below the dam to be higher than the lake (5 feet higher... Normally 2 lower)... Normally in those cases, we button up the dam and close the lock and let them handle it down river... But, this time we had over 10 inches of rain... For one of the first times ever we actually sent the water BACK to lake... Yep... And man was it a cesspool of pollution... I think they are still trying to figure out exactly how much pollution entered the lake... I am all for sending it back... But at what cost? Polluting 4/5th's of the GL's? Think about... Lake Michigan and Lake Huron are the same elevation above mean sea level... Water leaves Lake Michigan and totally refreshes itself about every 100 years... Lake Erie takes about 10 years! Now, look at the map... This end is the "gall bladder"... And when we dump it back... It is like bile backing up. Be prepared for more beach closings, mass pollution, etc.. etc.. Also... Last time I looked... Lake Michigan is ALL in the US... I think the US Supreme court has set diversion at Chicago (Michigan v. Illinois... 1969, 1996) at about 3,600 cubic feet per second. I am all for enviro concerns... But, they better be careful and not go off half-cocked... They better think about ALL the situations or we will end up with side sypmtoms! Side effects? You rememebr zebra mussles and other exotics were basically brought here by enviro policies that mandated clean ballast water... Living things live better in clean water... Just my 2 cents. The pollution you talk about is mainly rejects from the Chicago metro area water system? So basically today all that "used" water is send into the Mississipi river bassin?
EndZoneCrew Posted September 26, 2008 Author Posted September 26, 2008 You rememebr zebra mussles ... Like this beach in Michigan?
Fan in San Diego Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 See this is why Buffalo is so messed up, instead of telling us to go !@#$ ourselves the business response should be.....how much? Yes, a good business man would ask how much are you willing to pay us for the water? Which partly explains why Buffalo is still struggling.
Fan in San Diego Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 I think it makes more sense to divert water from the flood zones of the missisipi over to the Coloroado river where it already travels to California.
olivier in france Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 I think it makes more sense to divert water from the flood zones of the missisipi over to the Coloroado river where it already travels to California. yeah let's make travel all that comes out of the restrooms of Chicagoans all the way to SoCal!!
Philly McButterpants Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 That line is one of the best. Sam Kinison had a great schtick on that issue. See? this is sand. You know what it's going to be a hundred years from now? F*ckin' SAND!! Great bit . . . Linky Thingy
inkman Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 Wasn't it something along the lines of "There wouldn't be world hunger if you people lived where the FOOD IS!" I do recall a time when we tried to help some folks move to where the food is. Not so good...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 The pollution you talk about is mainly rejects from the Chicago metro area water system? So basically today all that "used" water is send into the Mississipi river bassin? Yes. They reversed the flow of the rivers here back in the early 1900's... Just as there were in BFLO and other areas, cholera epidemics were rampant. The are two ways to handle the water... Dilute it or treat it... Actually both goes on today. Think of us like the siphon hose on top of a watering can... Skimming the water off the side. The main water leaving the lakes is below lake Ontario... Everywere else around the lakes, water basically enters the lakes, not leaves. Like the "skimmer" on the top wall of a pool. My concern is... If they pass a strict diversion law... They better plan for and have vision for other angles... Especially here. I am all for limiting the amount of water leaving, but at what cost?... We act as a very important "filter" for this end of the lake. If laws are close minded and have no tolerance for any diversion... The harm could be worse for the lakes... When they finally stop all diversion for navigation... I can possibly see them engineering something like up in Seattle? Handle the water back like they do with the seawater from entering Lake Washington? Here it would be complicated because how would they handle the pollution? Something will: give navigation or enviro. I am glad I will be comfortably retired by then!
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 I think it makes more sense to divert water from the flood zones of the missisipi over to the Coloroado river where it already travels to California. You want toxic water... I will more than be happy to send it to you!
Recommended Posts