Hillary wins the popular vote in the Democratic primaries

[Chilly]

Hillary is only in the race for two reasons:

 

1: At best the VP nomination. Or at least a major cabinet role (Health Care reform maybe )

 

2: Most importantly, to get Obama campaign to help pay off her campaign's substantial debt. The Clinton's have loaned Hillary's campaign several million dollars of their own money

 

She hasn't been "in it to win it" for some time now

 

Could be another reason actually (which would take it to the convention) - try to sabotage Obama in 08, so she can be Clinton in 12

[pBills]

The 2012 logic I do not get either... only because it's not to often that a party will knock out their sitting President.

[Kelly the Dog]

Could be another reason actually (which would take it to the convention) - try to sabotage Obama in 08, so she can be Clinton in 12

That, to me, is simply impossible and not even a reasonable thing for her, or her people, or people here to ponder. In order for her to do that, she would have to publicly and privately sabotage him. Democrats are completely convinced this is their year and they will win. If they don't, and she privately and publicly sabotages it, she will get the full blame. It would be possible to publicly be shrewd enough to not make it appear you were sabotaging. It would be impossible to privately be shrewd enough.

 

Nobody wants to say it but this has been all about race and youth ever since Iowa. And the whole thing was almost over since then. It's remarkable that Hillary even stayed close.

 

As soon as Barack won, and black people everywhere started believing he could actually win, which they didn't before, he went from 60-70% of the black vote to 90%.

 

As soon as the college kids on the Internet realized that Barack could actually win, they went crazy and his money skyrocketed, and his registering the youth vote followed.

 

As soon as that happened, and Hillary didn't win Super Tuesday, and Barack went on the winning streak, this was completely over.

 

No one would say it, and no one will now, so I will: Everyone knew (excluding myopic Clinton psychophants) that the Superdelegates were not going to give their vote to Clinton if Barack had more pledged delegates. Impossible. They could say we're going to wait until it plays out all they wanted, but it was all complete and utter bullschit. Even if they wanted to, they knew they couldn't and knew they wouldn't.

 

If the black voters and young voters felt that this was hijacked, they sit, the Democratic party implodes and McCain wins. This is one of the only ways McCain wins. And nobody would say it. I understand why they couldn't and wouldn't but it doesn't mean it wasn't true. That's why the pundits everywhere said it was over before it was over. Hillary hasn't had a chance with the vast majority of the superdelegates for months. Even ones that may have wanted to side with her or legitimately couldn't make up their minds.

[pBills]

People wanted to hold on to hope for "their girl". Understandably so. She is a fiery, well educated and great politician. Problem with this campaign was that she and more importantly the people around her got cocky and expected to win. They believed it was in the bag and relaxed.

 

She should, and I believe she will concede tomorrow night or first thing Wednesday AM with a great speech something along the lines of "we ran a great campaign, we have shown that we are strong..." Basically a go team speech that includes her being 110% behind Obama.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

No one would say it, and no one will now, so I will: Everyone knew (excluding myopic Clinton psychophants) that the Superdelegates were not going to give their vote to Clinton if Barack had more pledged delegates. Impossible. They could say we're going to wait until it plays out all they wanted, but it was all complete and utter bullschit. Even if they wanted to, they knew they couldn't and knew they wouldn't.

 

If the black voters and young voters felt that this was hijacked, they sit, the Democratic party implodes and McCain wins. This is one of the only ways McCain wins. And nobody would say it. I understand why they couldn't and wouldn't but it doesn't mean it wasn't true. That's why the pundits everywhere said it was over before it was over. Hillary hasn't had a chance with the vast majority of the superdelegates for months. Even ones that may have wanted to side with her or legitimately couldn't make up their minds.

bingo! I think the reason the superdelegates didn't commit to Obama early was to get everyone to vote. If the average democrat knew Obama was in the bag, they'd think why bother. Now the SDs wait till the primaries are over, and make it official...

[pBills]

Hillary Clinton sees end of White House dream

By Toby Harnden in Troy, Michigan

Last Updated: 11:21PM BST 02/06/2008

 

Hillary Clinton is preparing what her aides, many of whom are being laid off, privately describe as a "valedictory" speech in New York as the final votes are cast in Democratic primaries.

 

Although Senator Clinton was still making her case aggressively to uncommitted super-delegates – the party officials in whose hands her fate lies – members of her advance staff who set up campaign events were recalled home and told their jobs were ending.

 

The former First Lady normally holds primary night "victory" events in a state that has just voted or is about to vote. But she is bracing herself for a double defeat in South Dakota and Montana and is instead heading for her home state of New York.

 

Five months to the day after Iowans braved snow and ice to attend their caucuses, the epic Democratic primary race will come to an end in the wide open spaces beneath the sun setting in the big sky of Montana.

 

Clinton sources said that although she was unlikely to concede the Democratic nomination to Senator Barack Obama or to endorse him, she recognised her dreams of returning to the White House were over until at least 2012. A concession speech in New York later in the week is a possibility.

 

Mr Obama needs the support of fewer than three dozen of the remaining 160 or so super-delegates still on the fence. With an insurmountable lead in the total of pledged delegates – those allocated by primary and caucus votes – he is expected to achieve that by Tuesday.

 

After the New York event, Mrs Clinton is due to return to Washington and spend the day conferring with her husband Bill, daughter Chelsea and senior aides at her headquarters in nearby Arlington, Virginia.

 

Mr Obama, in contrast, has already turned his attention to the general election against Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee. Anita Dunn, a senior Obama adviser, told ABC News he would not be waiting for Mrs Clinton to concede.

 

"He's not going to wait by the phone like a high-school girl waiting for a date."

 

He was campaigning in Troy, Michigan – a state whose primary contest was initially invalidated by the Democratic Party because it was held too early.

 

A safely Democratic state in recent elections, Mr Obama's advisers believe he has much ground to catch up there, particularly among the white working-class voters who have voted so heavily for Mrs Clinton in recent contests.

 

In Puerto Rico, which she won by a 36-point margin on Sunday, Mrs Clinton already appeared to be looking back wistfully at her campaign, which formally began early last year with her being considered the "inevitable" nominee.

 

"A lot of the people who have worked their hearts out for me in this primary season, they're not quitters in their own lives," she said.

 

"It's been a privilege and an honour to have met so many Americans, been to so many of the beautiful places in this country, and I feel like I'm doing it for the right reasons."

 

Mrs Clinton appeared close to tears as she described what she called "one of the most incredibly gratifying experiences" of her life – having her daughter, Chelsea, 28, campaigning for her.

[Chilly]

That, to me, is simply impossible and not even a reasonable thing for her, or her people, or people here to ponder. In order for her to do that, she would have to publicly and privately sabotage him. Democrats are completely convinced this is their year and they will win. If they don't, and she privately and publicly sabotages it, she will get the full blame. It would be possible to publicly be shrewd enough to not make it appear you were sabotaging. It would be impossible to privately be shrewd enough.

 

Didn't say it would work - said she *could* try it.

 

Nobody wants to say it but this has been all about race and youth ever since Iowa. And the whole thing was almost over since then. It's remarkable that Hillary even stayed close.

 

Erm, its remarkable that Hillary stayed close when Barack was attempting to forge a new coalition? No, its not. Its remarkable that Barack Obama was able to forge that new coalition successfully and squeak out a victory.

 

No one would say it, and no one will now, so I will: Everyone knew (excluding myopic Clinton psychophants) that the Superdelegates were not going to give their vote to Clinton if Barack had more pledged delegates. Impossible. They could say we're going to wait until it plays out all they wanted, but it was all complete and utter bullschit. Even if they wanted to, they knew they couldn't and knew they wouldn't.

 

If the black voters and young voters felt that this was hijacked, they sit, the Democratic party implodes and McCain wins. This is one of the only ways McCain wins. And nobody would say it. I understand why they couldn't and wouldn't but it doesn't mean it wasn't true. That's why the pundits everywhere said it was over before it was over. Hillary hasn't had a chance with the vast majority of the superdelegates for months. Even ones that may have wanted to side with her or legitimately couldn't make up their minds.

 

Quite frankly, I *still* feel that Clinton is the better candidate against McCain. Obama's campaign strategy is extremely risky, and Clinton would be wayyyy up against McCain in the electoral college. That said, there's no doubt it could very well work. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

The reason why the super delegates wouldn't go against Obama was not about winning this election, but because they see an opportunity to try to build more people into the party. The problem is I think they're voting for the candidate, not the party, so I'm not sure how well that's going to work out.

[Nanker]

Hillary's in Al Gore's shoes.

[PastaJoe]

So pasta, let me as you this. Even though Obama leads in all phases except popular vote (I'm giving you that one), you feel as though Hillary should take this to the convention and fight it out, drag it out? More less waste more time?

 

Does all phases include who does better with blue collar workers, and whose won the important swing states, and the Hispanic vote throughout the campaign? I don't think it's a waste of time to try to have the best candidate as the nominee, which I believe she clearly is. But obviously she's closer to the possiblities of convincing superdelegates to support her at the convention than I am, so I will defer and support whatever decision she makes. It would make it much easier for her supporters to concede and back Obama if she was part of the ticket. If he doesn't make the offer, then it becomes difficult.

[pBills]

Does all phases include who does better with blue collar workers, and whose won the important swing states, and the Hispanic vote throughout the campaign? I don't think it's a waste of time to try to have the best candidate as the nominee, which I believe she clearly is. But obviously she's closer to the possiblities of convincing superdelegates to support her at the convention than I am, so I will defer and support whatever decision she makes. It would make it much easier for her supporters to concede and back Obama if she was part of the ticket. If he doesn't make the offer, then it becomes difficult.

 

 

 

Ok, so each candidate hits a certain demographic better than the other. I do not believe that she is best candidate simply because she can pull some white workers. However, she is (obviously) pretty damn tough. Believe me the Labor community will be behind the democratic nominee. Especially when GM is now stating that they are closing even more plants. Things need to change. In regards to the superdelegates, I would expect Obama to upwards 340 or slightly more by the close of polls tonight.

 

I do agree with you about making it easier on her supporters if she was part of the ticket. Good or bad she is such a polarizing political figure. Bad thing for her is that there are other possible female candidates for VP, as well as others that would entice the white workers.

 

I am glad to know that you are going to back Obama if she concedes. We (Dems) need to get this thing moving towards the goal in November.

[PastaJoe]

Ok, so each candidate hits a certain demographic better than the other. I do not believe that she is best candidate simply because she can pull some white workers. However, she is (obviously) pretty damn tough. Believe me the Labor community will be behind the democratic nominee. Especially when GM is now stating that they are closing even more plants. Things need to change. In regards to the superdelegates, I would expect Obama to upwards 340 or slightly more by the close of polls tonight.

 

I do agree with you about making it easier on her supporters if she was part of the ticket. Good or bad she is such a polarizing political figure. Bad thing for her is that there are other possible female candidates for VP, as well as others that would entice the white workers.

 

I am glad to know that you are going to back Obama if she concedes. We (Dems) need to get this thing moving towards the goal in November.

 

 

I believe the blue collar workers she gets are more likely to cross over to McCain than the black voters than he gets, so they are the key demographic. And I've seen stats that show he would lose more voters to McCain than the number of Obama supporters who would sit home if it's her, since Obama supporters are more liberal. But we can agree to disagree.

 

I didn't say I'd back Obama if she concedes, I said if she concedes AND she's part of the ticket. For him to choose another women, when there clearly isn't another as qualified except Diane Feinstein, would be a big disrespect.

[pBills]

I believe the blue collar workers she gets are more likely to cross over to McCain than the black voters than he gets, so they are the key demographic. And I've seen stats that show he would lose more voters to McCain than the number of Obama supporters who would sit home if it's her, since Obama supporters are more liberal. But we can agree to disagree.

 

I didn't say I'd back Obama if she concedes, I said if she concedes AND she's part of the ticket. For him to choose another women, when there clearly isn't another as qualified except Diane Feinstein, would be a big disrespect.

 

 

 

Yes, there are stats that show those "dems" leaving the party for McCain. I am having a hard time believing this go around. After all McCain has never really come out and said anything positive for American Labor. The one thing that Obama brings to the table in a large way is the independents and swing vote republicans.

 

So if he doesn't choose Hillary - would you vote for McCain? If so, I find that to be kind of sad.

 

 

 

Other female options for VP (from Huffington):

 

Kathleen Sebelius

Talk about reaching across the aisle. This Kansas governor convinced a Republican to leave his party, become a Democrat, and run as her lieutenant governor. Kansas is rife with stories of Republicans undergoing conversions, and Sebelius gets a good amount of credit for this.

 

Pro: Another Red-state governor with an excellent post-partisan record. Having a female VP could be a strong ticket.

 

Con: Sebelius didn't wow anyone with her response to the State of the Union, which raises questions about how she would do on the national stage. And her location in Kansas doesn't add much that Obama doesn't already get from Illinois.

 

 

Janet Napolitano

Another popular Western governor, Napolitano has settled into a second term in McCain's very red home state. She also backed Obama early in the race.

 

Pros: She has proven her executive capacity in Republican territory, as well as the Southwest, which will help sway Obamicans. A female candidate could also help reunite the Democrats.

 

Con: Her stance on immigration could prove costly among Hispanic voters.

[GG]

Breaking news - Hillary to acknowledge the obvious tonight.

 

Pasta Joe to don black for a month.

 

No linky yet.

[KD in CA]

Breaking news - Hillary to acknowledge the obvious tonight.

 

Pasta Joe to don black for a month.

 

No linky yet.

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_el_pr/clinton

[PastaJoe]

So if he doesn't choose Hillary - would you vote for McCain? If so, I find that to be kind of sad.

 

As I've said before, I can't vote for McCain because of his policies. Maybe the McCain of 2000, but not his 2008 version. The question is whether I'll vote for Obama.

[pBills]

As I've said before, I can't vote for McCain because of his policies. Maybe the McCain of 2000, but not his 2008 version. The question is whether I'll vote for Obama.

 

 

Fair enough. I would hope that you vote Democrat - after all their policies do not differ that much.

[Kelly the Dog]

As I've said before, I can't vote for McCain because of his policies. Maybe the McCain of 2000, but not his 2008 version. The question is whether I'll vote for Obama.

If Hillary won, wouldn't you expect the vast majority of Obama voters to side with her?

 

I'm really not criticizing you here for your feelings. I think I understand it. It's not too unlike a long Bills season where they lost in the Super Bowl in a hard fought close game like the Giants. People need some time, perhaps a lot, to decompress.

 

I just feel like once everything sinks in... the campaigns go through the general election cycle... the debates happen... and November nears... the vast majority of the bitterness will be overcome with a desire to have 90% of Hillary's policies and perspective in the White House instead of John McCain's.

 

I don't feel like you're obligated to vote for Obama, obviously, I just think that most of the people in the exit polls that said they wouldn't vote for the other candidate were saying that in the heat of battle. Many truly felt it. Many were just telling that to the questioners because if they didn't it would look worse for their candidate (on both sides, that wasn't a Hillary voter comment at all). These voters, IMO, will likely feel a little differently a week from now, then a month from now, and by the election will see a clear, less emotional choice between McCain and Obama.

 

This is another major reason why I think the general election polls are off quite a bit right about now.

[PastaJoe]

If Hillary won, wouldn't you expect the vast majority of Obama voters to side with her?

 

I'm really not criticizing you here for your feelings. I think I understand it. It's not too unlike a long Bills season where they lost in the Super Bowl in a hard fought close game like the Giants. People need some time, perhaps a lot, to decompress.

 

I just feel like once everything sinks in... the campaigns go through the general election cycle... the debates happen... and November nears... the vast majority of the bitterness will be overcome with a desire to have 90% of Hillary's policies and perspective in the White House instead of John McCain's.

 

I don't feel like you're obligated to vote for Obama, obviously, I just think that most of the people in the exit polls that said they wouldn't vote for the other candidate were saying that in the heat of battle. Many truly felt it. Many were just telling that to the questioners because if they didn't it would look worse for their candidate (on both sides, that wasn't a Hillary voter comment at all). These voters, IMO, will likely feel a little differently a week from now, then a month from now, and by the election will see a clear, less emotional choice between McCain and Obama.

 

This is another major reason why I think the general election polls are off quite a bit right about now.

 

 

To echo your analogy, right now I feel like Norwood just missed the kick and some Giant fans are waving "We're #1" fingers in my face. So ask me again in a week.

[Bishop Hedd]

Breaking news - Hillary to acknowledge the obvious tonight.

 

Pasta Joe to don black for a month.

 

No linky yet.

 

 

That AP report is now being refuted by the Clinton camp.

[DC Tom]

To echo your analogy, right now I feel like Norwood just missed the kick and some Giant fans are waving "We're #1" fingers in my face. So ask me again in a week.

 

 

Awww, c'mon...have a little faith. There's no reason a little bit of incovenient reality should get in the way of your wacky-ass delusions, not now when you've ignored SO much reality to get us to this point. She could still court her pro-anti-gun demographic and pull out an upset as an independent. Obama could be assassinated before the convention. The superdelegates could still all change their minds at once and put her on the ticket because "she won the popular vote". The election's not over until November, so buck up, Don't Stop Believin', and keep those "Clinton 08" flags flying high!