Hillary wins the popular vote in the Democratic primaries

[PastaJoe]

With another blowout win over Obama, this time in Puerto Rico, Hillary is assured of winning the popular vote total. The seating of all the delegates from Florida and Michigan means that those vote totals are now recognized as official. More people have voted for Hillary than any other person in the history of primaries. The last time the Democrats selected a nominee who didn't win the popular vote was 1972 when they picked McGovern, who was crushed in the general election by Nixon. Now it's time for the superdelegates to do the smart thing and not the easy thing, and follow the will of the majority of voters and support Hillary. Those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzAUJB7NDQ

[pBills]

So Obama leads in every way possible except popular vote (according to Clinton - she stated that before. Not counting caucus states and counting FL and MI before Saturdays decision). States won, delegates and superdelegates.

 

Once Obama wins both South Dakota and Montana Hillary should do the right thing and back out. Save some face, and maybe keep some of those militant supporters on the left side.

[pBills]

Popular Vote Debatable (from the Associated Press):

 

 

It's a debatable point.

 

Clinton counts the results of Michigan, a state that until Saturday had been denied delegates because it jumped ahead of other states in violation of Democratic Party rules. Though Clinton was on the ballot, Obama withdrew his name from contention in that primary. Clinton received 328,309 votes in Michigan to none for Obama.

 

Clinton's claim also includes estimates for caucuses in Iowa, Nevada, Maine and Washington state, where no official candidate popular vote is available. Obama won Iowa, Maine and Washington state. She also includes the results from Florida, where none of the Democratic presidential candidates campaigned in advance of its primary earlier this year because the Democratic Pary had declared its delegates ineligible. Clinton won more votes than Obama in Florida.

 

Without Florida and Michigan in the count, Obama leads Clinton by nearly 450,000 votes in the combined popular vote in primaries and caucuses where delegates were at stake.

 

Moreover, under Democratic Party rules, the popular vote does not determine who the nominee is; delegates do. On that count, Obama has 2,068 delegates, leaving him 50 shy of the number needed to secure the nomination, with two primaries remaining. Clinton has 1905.5, according to the latest tally by the AP.

[PastaJoe]

So Obama leads in every way possible except popular vote (according to Clinton - she stated that before. Not counting caucus states and counting FL and MI before Saturdays decision). States won, delegates and superdelegates.

 

Once Obama wins both South Dakota and Montana Hillary should do the right thing and back out. Save some face, and maybe keep some of those militant supporters on the left side.

 

Before Saturday, nay-sayers said FL and MI didn't count because the DNC didn't count them. Now that they have been counted, those popular votes are as valid as any other state. The fact remains that she has more popular votes than Obama. That's much more valid than awarding 55 Uncommitted delegates to Obama based on unreliable exit polls, and in fact taking away 4 delegates that should have gone to Clinton.

 

If Obama wants to end the race, he should offer the VP position to Clinton. Otherwise I support her decision to keep working to convince superdelegates to back her until she decides otherwise.

[PastaJoe]

Moreover, under Democratic Party rules, the popular vote does not determine who the nominee is; delegates do. On that count, Obama has 2,068 delegates, leaving him 50 shy of the number needed to secure the nomination, with two primaries remaining. Clinton has 1905.5, according to the latest tally by the AP.

 

I agree that in the end whoever gets the total required delegates to vote for them at the convention will be the nominee. But since neither will reach that number from pledged delegates, the superdelegates will be the deciders, and when it comes to tiebreakers the total popular vote and wins in key electoral college states trumps total number of states.

[pBills]

Before Saturday, nay-sayers said FL and MI didn't count because the DNC didn't count them. Now that they have been counted, those popular votes are as valid as any other state. The fact remains that she has more popular votes than Obama. That's much more valid than awarding 55 Uncommitted delegates to Obama based on unreliable exit polls, and in fact taking away 4 delegates that should have gone to Clinton.

 

If Obama wants to end the race, he should offer the VP position to Clinton. Otherwise I support her decision to keep working to convince superdelegates to back her until she decides otherwise.

 

 

 

I love when Hillary supporters say that. Fact is she (along with Dodd and Kucinich) didn't follow other candidates and remove their names from the ballot. Which she should have done. SO, if she would have followed the rules she agreed with - she wouldn't have been on the ballot either.

 

Not to sure a Clinton as VP thing would happen now because things have been so heated between them.

[Kelly the Dog]

Before Saturday, nay-sayers said FL and MI didn't count because the DNC didn't count them. Now that they have been counted, those popular votes are as valid as any other state. The fact remains that she has more popular votes than Obama. That's much more valid than awarding 55 Uncommitted delegates to Obama based on unreliable exit polls, and in fact taking away 4 delegates that should have gone to Clinton.

 

If Obama wants to end the race, he should offer the VP position to Clinton. Otherwise I support her decision to keep working to convince superdelegates to back her until she decides otherwise.

In that long lunch on Saturday, Obama's team had the votes for 50-50 split in delegates between him and Clinton. Obama's side decided themselves to give her the 69-59 advantage. That is what the committee then agreed to. He gave her 10 delegates when he didn't have to, 4 were not stolen from her.

 

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...31/1091448.aspx

 

From NBC's Chuck Todd

Per multiple sources inside the closed Rules and Bylaws Committee lunch, Obama actually had the votes to get a 50-50 delegate split out of Michigan -- but by just a vote or two.

 

However, it was decided to go with the 69-59 split to win a larger majority. That measure passed 19-8.

 

*** UPDATE *** Also, according to those with knowledge of the Michigan agreement, it is fair to claim Clinton the winner of Michigan. But they caution against counting her popular vote in the state.

[pBills]

I agree that in the end whoever gets the total required delegates to vote for them at the convention will be the nominee. But since neither will reach that number from pledged delegates, the superdelegates will be the deciders, and when it comes to tiebreakers the total popular vote and wins in key electoral college states trumps total number of states.

 

 

 

Superdelegates (I believe) will end this shortly after tomorrow. I believe before the decision on Saturday Obama had 323, already gained 6 more. After tomorrow, he should have to receive what 15-20 out of 205 to reach the magic number.

[KD in CA]

Wait a minute...I though PJ didn't care about vote totals and just wanted the super delegates to make the decision? Which by the way, they are about to do.

 

 

 

p.s. way to take the fuzzy math to a new level.

[/dev/null]

Superdelegates (I believe) will end this shortly after tomorrow. I believe before the decision on Saturday Obama had 323, already gained 6 more. After tomorrow, he should have to receive what 15-20 out of 205 to reach the magic number.

 

I think the Super Delegates will in effect (but not officially) end this Monday or before the polls close on Tuesday

 

You'll see Supers declaring for Obama before the polls close on Tuesday. Enough to put him 10 or so delegates away from the magic number. There's 31 delegates up on Tuesday (16 Montana and 15 SD) so he should be able to easily come away with that number of elected delegates

 

Then after the polls close on Tuesday Obama can give his big speech during Prime Time and thank the voters for putting him over the top

 

Politics + Theatrics

[Chilly]

I think the Super Delegates will in effect (but not officially) end this Monday or before the polls close on Tuesday

 

You'll see Supers declaring for Obama before the polls close on Tuesday. Enough to put him 10 or so delegates away from the magic number. There's 31 delegates up on Tuesday (16 Montana and 15 SD) so he should be able to easily come away with that number of elected delegates

 

Then after the polls close on Tuesday Obama can give his big speech during Prime Time and thank the voters for putting him over the top

 

Politics + Theatrics

 

I think that this is a possibility, for sure. The Democrats will want to look as smooth and graceful as possible, and of course, get as many snippets in the national media as possible. I would agree that this is a good way to do that. However, I see another possibility:

 

1.) Clinton lets Obama win, stays quiet besides giving a speech.

2.) Obama clearly leads delegates Tuesday night

3.) Clinton bows out Wednesday or Thursday, pushing the Dems back to the spotlight to highlight Clinton's exit.

 

By the way, Clinton is already cutting staffers that she would likely keep for a gen election run:

 

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/060...ding_staff.html

[Wacka]

This popcorn is good!

 

Lets have a steel cage death match in Denver!

[pBills]

I think that this is a possibility, for sure. The Democrats will want to look as smooth and graceful as possible, and of course, get as many snippets in the national media as possible. I would agree that this is a good way to do that. However, I see another possibility:

 

1.) Clinton lets Obama win, stays quiet besides giving a speech.

2.) Obama clearly leads delegates Tuesday night

3.) Clinton bows out Wednesday or Thursday, pushing the Dems back to the spotlight to highlight Clinton's exit.

 

By the way, Clinton is already cutting staffers that she would likely keep for a gen election run:

 

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/060...ding_staff.html

 

 

 

No matter what all three depend on Hillary... how SHE wants to either bow out or fight this at the next credential meeting and then maybe on to the convention. As much as I dislike her, and as much as I know the right has a million negative things to throw at her in a general election. The "Dream" ticket might be, and I mean MIGHT be the best way to unify the party before the general election.

[X. Benedict]

With another blowout win over Obama, this time in Puerto Rico, Hillary is assured of winning the popular vote total. The seating of all the delegates from Florida and Michigan means that those vote totals are now recognized as official. More people have voted for Hillary than any other person in the history of primaries. The last time the Democrats selected a nominee who didn't win the popular vote was 1972 when they picked McGovern, who was crushed in the general election by Nixon. Now it's time for the superdelegates to do the smart thing and not the easy thing, and follow the will of the majority of voters and support Hillary. Those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzAUJB7NDQ

 

 

A student of history, eh?

 

Repeating history would be doing what Kennedy did at the 1980 convention.

 

Besides that, when has a popular vote or the State of Puerto Rico tipped the balance in a Presidential Election?

[/dev/null]

By the way, Clinton is already cutting staffers that she would likely keep for a gen election run:

 

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/060...ding_staff.html

 

That doesn't exactly sound like "cutting them". Just sending them home.

 

The staffers involved are advance staffers who plan out campaign trips before the candidate arrives. With the primary season ending on Tuesday Hillary's campaign will either end (if Obama goes over the top) or shift gears from campaigning for the voters to campaigning for the Supers and party insiders.

 

If Hillary stays in "the race" after Tuesday she won't need to pay campaign workers as much as she'll have to pay her lawyers.

[KD in CA]

By the way, Clinton is already cutting staffers that she would likely keep for a gen election run:

 

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/060...ding_staff.html

 

Why bother? Why doesn't she just use them and then stiff them on payment like she has with small vendors all over the country?

[PastaJoe]

I love when Hillary supporters say that. Fact is she (along with Dodd and Kucinich) didn't follow other candidates and remove their names from the ballot. Which she should have done. SO, if she would have followed the rules she agreed with - she wouldn't have been on the ballot either.

 

Not to sure a Clinton as VP thing would happen now because things have been so heated between them.

 

Point of fact, there was no rule or agreement that said a candidate had to remove their name from the ballot. That was the candidate's own decisions; Obama knew he was going to lose and saw it as a way to invalidate the vote totals, and was pandering to the Iowa and New Hampshire voters who want to maintain their starter status.

 

 

In that long lunch on Saturday, Obama's team had the votes for 50-50 split in delegates between him and Clinton. Obama's side decided themselves to give her the 69-59 advantage. That is what the committee then agreed to. He gave her 10 delegates when he didn't have to, 4 were not stolen from her.

 

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...31/1091448.aspx

 

He didn't give Hillary anything, because he didn't have any votes in Michigan, and therefore no delegates. They were either votes for Hillary or for Uncommitted, and that's how they should have been apportioned to go to the convention. Then if they wanted to vote for Obama at the convention, they could. She was entitled to 4 more delegates based on the vote than what she got, and those went to Obama along with 55 others. If pledged delegates are just going to be given to the party's favorite son without regard to the popular vote, then why bother voting in primaries anymore?

[pBills]

June 2, 2008

Sources: Most uncommitted senators to endorse Obama

 

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Most of the seventeen Democratic senators who have remained uncommitted throughout the primaries will endorse Barack Obama for president this week, CNN has learned.

 

Sources familiar with discussions between Obama supporters and these senators tell CNN’s Gloria Borger that the senators will wait until after the South Dakota and Montana primaries to announce their support for Obama.

 

Two sources familiar with the sessions said the endorsements will come sometime later this week.

 

Obama supporters have been “pressing” for these superdelegates to endorse earlier in the week, but according to one source, “the senators don’t want to pound Hillary Clinton, and there is a sense she should be given a grace period.”

 

A series of meetings on the topic have been facilitated at different times by Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin, former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin. Durbin and Daschle are Obama supporters, while Harkin is uncommitted.

 

According to CNN’s Candy Crowley, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will remain uncommitted until Clinton officially drops out of the race.

[pBills]

Point of fact, there was no rule or agreement that said a candidate had to remove their name from the ballot. That was the candidate's own decisions; Obama knew he was going to lose and saw it as a way to invalidate the vote totals, and was pandering to the Iowa and New Hampshire voters who want to maintain their starter status.

 

 

 

 

He didn't give Hillary anything, because he didn't have any votes in Michigan, and therefore no delegates. They were either votes for Hillary or for Uncommitted, and that's how they should have been apportioned to go to the convention. Then if they wanted to vote for Obama at the convention, they could. She was entitled to 4 more delegates based on the vote than what she got, and those went to Obama along with 55 others. If pledged delegates are just going to be given to the party's favorite son without regard to the popular vote, then why bother voting in primaries anymore?

 

 

 

 

Oh my lord where are you getting such strong kool-aid? He knew he was going to lose and pulled out before it could happen? Wow, that makes sense. With that school of thought, he should never jumped in the Presidential race because Hillary had 20-point leads all across the country. Shouldn't he have just skipped 90% of the primaries and caucuses? And Point of fact is that Hillary signed upon the same agreement regarding Florida and Michigan... the ONLY reason it became a big deal to her is because she is and was losing. Only reason.

 

Just face it, her campaign royally screwed up. They believed that they would have this won by Super Tuesday. They didn't. Then they were instantly behind the eight-ball in organizing advance crews for each upcoming primary and for raising money. The other HUGE blunder was that because they expected to win - they did not care as much about the caucus states. That in itself killed her chances.

 

Regarding popular vote, as I posted earlier - that is completely debatable. Sounds like a bushism - fuzzy math.

[Chilly]

That doesn't exactly sound like "cutting them". Just sending them home.

 

The staffers involved are advance staffers who plan out campaign trips before the candidate arrives. With the primary season ending on Tuesday Hillary's campaign will either end (if Obama goes over the top) or shift gears from campaigning for the voters to campaigning for the Supers and party insiders.

 

If Hillary stays in "the race" after Tuesday she won't need to pay campaign workers as much as she'll have to pay her lawyers.

 

The implication here is if she actually thought she had a chance, she would be having them schedule trips around the country.