BBfan4lifeJH81 Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Will we have two starting corners only or will we switch them in to keep them fresh. Like the D-line. Have Mcgee. James, Mckelvin, Greer at outside then have Corner at the nickel? I think its a good idea to keep switching them in to keep them fresh or just have 3 outside corners and switch one in Then have one of those four at nickel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ax4782 Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 I don't know of any other team that uses a rotational system at the CB position. That being said, we have four very capable guys that can start at the position. McGee and McKelvin could rotate at the LCB and Greer and James could rotate at the RCB. Then, you are also covered in the event of a serious injury (knock on wood). So, I could see them using that scheme, particularly with James where Buffalo plays against tall starting receivers. James is a very good match up against Randy Moss due to James' size. However, I am excited to see how McKelvin fares against him if he gets reps in that game this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 I don't know of any other team that uses a rotational system at the CB position. That being said, we have four very capable guys that can start at the position. McGee and McKelvin could rotate at the LCB and Greer and James could rotate at the RCB. Then, you are also covered in the event of a serious injury (knock on wood). So, I could see them using that scheme, particularly with James where Buffalo plays against tall starting receivers. James is a very good match up against Randy Moss due to James' size. However, I am excited to see how McKelvin fares against him if he gets reps in that game this season. Why do people keep saying James can match up with Moss because of his size? Have they forgotten that there's no way in hell James can stay with Moss? Just because James is tall, doesn't mean he can cover the best receiver in the game. In red zone situations, maybe. But I guarantee if James is our number 1 option to cover Moss all over the field we will get burned. Height only matters when you can stay with the guy and are jumping for a ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Why do people keep saying James can match up with Moss because of his size? Have they forgotten that there's no way in hell James can stay with Moss? Just because James is tall, doesn't mean he can cover the best receiver in the game. In red zone situations, maybe. But I guarantee if James is our number 1 option to cover Moss all over the field we will get burned. Height only matters when you can stay with the guy and are jumping for a ball. James was a very solid #1 CB for the Giants for a few years and went up against the best. I am sure he covered TO and he probably has covered Moss. The problem with James the past couple years is he has had a hard time staying healthy. If healthy and fully recovered James is a very nice addition to our secondary. As far as Randy Moss goes- he has had one very good year in the past 4. If you keep hitting Moss he hears footsteps. I want to see our secondary very physical- like the Giants secondary last year. That will stop Moss more then anything IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 I don't know of any other team that uses a rotational system at the CB position. That being said, we have four very capable guys that can start at the position. McGee and McKelvin could rotate at the LCB and Greer and James could rotate at the RCB. Then, you are also covered in the event of a serious injury (knock on wood). So, I could see them using that scheme, particularly with James where Buffalo plays against tall starting receivers. James is a very good match up against Randy Moss due to James' size. However, I am excited to see how McKelvin fares against him if he gets reps in that game this season. Folks seem to demonstrate a limited understanding of how the CB is often used in our D. Our base D is a version of the Cover 2 often referred to as the Tampa 2 around the NFL. It is based on the Cover 2 scheme which Indy and Chicago rode to SB berths in the 2006 season which made this all the rage in a league which often imitates success. My sense is that it is still the rage as no one really is going to pretend that they can easily ape either the NE system or have the # 1 pass rush in the NFL because these are not scheme but player fixes. In the traditional Cover 2, the CB responsibility is only short-zone pass coverage (it varies but basically a max of 12-15 yards downfield), run contain on outside runs and sometimes the CB blitz. In the Tampaesque model we run a fast MLB like a Pos or a Fletcher is essential because this player has deep zone coverage on passes up the middle. This frees up the safeties to do mostly outside coverage and they only have a third of the field rather than half the field to worry about. Fewell is on record saying the Bills run the Cover 2 about 25% of the time (it is unclear exactly what he meant by this but I think he was saying that the break down is the traditional cover 2 a quarter of the time, the base D Tampa 2 about a third of the time, and the remainder is made up of switches where we run a more conventional coverage scheme where the CB in fact does cover the WR all over the field and plays in the redzone or we are running the prevent D where the CB is running coverage which differs from both the Cover 2 variation and traditional coverage. What I think having a near-elite player at CB does for us is that we now will be well positioned to play a conventional coverage scheme if we want. I think our base D will still be the Tampa 2, but it is nice to have the flexibility. At any rate, Moss is so good that most teams will double cover him or zone up to cover him (particularly in the red zone) rather than rely on any single player to cover him alone all over the field all day. If one chose this approach you are probably going to get burned. I view McKelvin as a nice addition to increase possibilities against pass-haopy teams in NE and Miami. However, the key will be in order not to get burned by Moss will be to get such good penetration from Stroud and the DTs, nice moves by Schobel and the DEs, and sneaky successful surprise blitzes by Mitchell and the LBs or by the DBs that we simply pressure Brady badly and put him on his butt a few times, The key to good pass coverage on NE is not gonna be the CBs' but the DTs' work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 James was a very solid #1 CB for the Giants for a few years and went up against the best. I am sure he covered TO and he probably has covered Moss. The problem with James the past couple years is he has had a hard time staying healthy. If healthy and fully recovered James is a very nice addition to our secondary. As far as Randy Moss goes- he has had one very good year in the past 4. If you keep hitting Moss he hears footsteps. I want to see our secondary very physical- like the Giants secondary last year. That will stop Moss more then anything IMO James is a nice depth addition for our defense, but he has never and will never be a #1 corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 James is a nice depth addition for our defense, but he has never and will never be a #1 corner. If you do not believe James was #1 on the Giants, who was #1 over James? Disclaimer- I live in CT and watch a lot of Giants and Jets games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 If you do not believe James was #1 on the Giants, who was #1 over James? Disclaimer- I live in CT and watch a lot of Giants and Jets games. The #1 was Will Allen. It doesn't really matter who was number one 4 years ago on the Giants, if you think James is a #1 thats going to be the answer for covering Moss then you are sadly mistaken about the amount of talent James has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Will we have two starting corners only or will we switch them in to keep them fresh. Like the D-line. Have Mcgee. James, Mckelvin, Greer at outside then have Corner at the nickel? I think its a good idea to keep switching them in to keep them fresh or just have 3 outside corners and switch one in Then have one of those four at nickel Nobody rotates corners because there is more than one on the field frequently. Not having your best guy on the field at that position is just a bad idea. No team has four starting caliber corners and the dropoff in talent is pretty high. Even if you think Buffalo has four starting corners. They rotate D lineman because they are bigger and heavier and not in the shape corners are. Lineman are trained for quick burst of speed in a short area. Why do people keep saying James can match up with Moss because of his size? Have they forgotten that there's no way in hell James can stay with Moss? Just because James is tall, doesn't mean he can cover the best receiver in the game. In red zone situations, maybe. But I guarantee if James is our number 1 option to cover Moss all over the field we will get burned. Height only matters when you can stay with the guy and are jumping for a ball. I can't think of one corner who can cover Moss one on one. With McKelvin being a rookie look for Whitner sliding to his side fairly often. If James can shutdown Moss one on one I'll be very surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Folks seem to demonstrate a limited understanding of how the CB is often used in our D. Our base D is a version of the Cover 2 often referred to as the Tampa 2 around the NFL. It is based on the Cover 2 scheme which Indy and Chicago rode to SB berths in the 2006 season which made this all the rage in a league which often imitates success. My sense is that it is still the rage as no one really is going to pretend that they can easily ape either the NE system or have the # 1 pass rush in the NFL because these are not scheme but player fixes. In the traditional Cover 2, the CB responsibility is only short-zone pass coverage (it varies but basically a max of 12-15 yards downfield), run contain on outside runs and sometimes the CB blitz. In the Tampaesque model we run a fast MLB like a Pos or a Fletcher is essential because this player has deep zone coverage on passes up the middle. This frees up the safeties to do mostly outside coverage and they only have a third of the field rather than half the field to worry about. Fewell is on record saying the Bills run the Cover 2 about 25% of the time (it is unclear exactly what he meant by this but I think he was saying that the break down is the traditional cover 2 a quarter of the time, the base D Tampa 2 about a third of the time, and the remainder is made up of switches where we run a more conventional coverage scheme where the CB in fact does cover the WR all over the field and plays in the redzone or we are running the prevent D where the CB is running coverage which differs from both the Cover 2 variation and traditional coverage. What I think having a near-elite player at CB does for us is that we now will be well positioned to play a conventional coverage scheme if we want. I think our base D will still be the Tampa 2, but it is nice to have the flexibility. At any rate, Moss is so good that most teams will double cover him or zone up to cover him (particularly in the red zone) rather than rely on any single player to cover him alone all over the field all day. If one chose this approach you are probably going to get burned. I view McKelvin as a nice addition to increase possibilities against pass-haopy teams in NE and Miami. However, the key will be in order not to get burned by Moss will be to get such good penetration from Stroud and the DTs, nice moves by Schobel and the DEs, and sneaky successful surprise blitzes by Mitchell and the LBs or by the DBs that we simply pressure Brady badly and put him on his butt a few times, The key to good pass coverage on NE is not gonna be the CBs' but the DTs' work. Towards the 2nd half of the year, I noticed our corners playing A LOT more man coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 No. Nobody does a CB rotation. McGee is entrenched at CB. Greer played really well last year and will be the starter in camp, nut McKelvin will probably beat him out in camp, if not then early in the season. McKelvin is ready to play now. We are deep at CB now, camp will be a battle of corners, with Will James, Youboty, and Corner in the mix too. But my best guess would be McKelvin and McGee as the starters, while Greer or James pull nickel duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Friends Call Me Tebucky Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Only a moron would try to match James/Peterson on Randy Moss intentionally. The guy might be a nice addition, but it's going to be as a 3rd or 4th CB. Just because he's a little taller than the other corners doesn't mean he can cover better than them. If you want to stick James on Moss in the red zone, he'll just run slants instead of fades. Greer is one inch shorter, and runs a hell of a lot better. Moss doesn't kill teams by catching 5 yard TD passes, he burns them with 65 yard bombs. In a Cover 2 it theoretically doesn't matter that much...but if it's man to man, I'll take my chances with the smaller corners with speed to cover Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBfan4lifeJH81 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 I cant wait to see Moss when he catches a 65 yard bomb then Whitner comes over and lays him out just after he catches it. Its gonna look sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I cant wait to see Moss when he catches a 65 yard bomb then Whitner comes over and lays him out just after he catches it. Its gonna look sweet. Does Moss drop the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBfan4lifeJH81 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 Does Moss drop the ball? He will when Donte hits him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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