loyal2dagame Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 who is better? trent or jp, jp or trent, who cares. jp has not had many good/great weapons to use while he was the starter. and you know what, to bad for him. he lost the job and that's that. trent has a good chance to make it as he does have some good/great weapons to work with. good for him. he has the job and thats that. any players success is not solely based on skills, but timing of the players career (imo). would montana have been a hof player without rice, taylor,craig? would kelly have been a hof player without reed, thomas,lofton? would brady be as good as he is without the video camera? success in any sport is all timing. jp may have had a better career if he would have stayed in school and come out a year later. maybe with the weapons kelly had, vince ferragamo would have had a hof career(doubtful) too many people are still cought up in jp vs trent, trent vs jp and i cant understand why. the bills are quietly building a solid team at the perfect time. the pats* are getting to be very old, and i think it's only a matter of time before their older players start to break down, and their video camera has already run out of tape. the fish are in total chaos, and i feel this is the team tuna can not turn around. the jets are hit or miss every year for the last 5 or so seasons. not very consistant. i was a jp supporter, but have come to realize his timing may not have been right. trent's may be. too bad for one, good for the other, and if it works out, it'll be great for bills fans, if not, so be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 You had me at.... who is better? trent or jp, jp or trent, who cares. There is something to be said for timing, but to say "success in any sport is all timing" is ignorant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 what i meant about success are wins/losses that make a player go from average/good to great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 what i meant about success are wins/losses that make a player go from average/good to great ok my bad. it's tough to judge a player solely on wins and loses, especially in a team sport like football (although we do a lot of that here), but it is the bottom line. I agree though that winning would make an average QB appear to be great, when if that same QB was on a weaker team he would be a bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I think you are right in saying that this case has a lot to do with the timing of each QBs career and that timing in general affects sports players more than most fans will admit, but I think you took it too far. Speaking only of football, I would say that it is the skill positions players that are impacted the most by timing. If you have a QB, but no TE or WR, then that's poor timing. Vice-versa is true as well. Those positions are dependant on each other to play well. You could also say that if you can't pass the ball, then the running game isn't going to work, no matter how good your o-line is. There are exceptions, but generally if a defense stacks 8 in the box, the offense isn't going to run very effectively. With that said, I would say linemen on both sides of the ball are not influenced by timing for the most part. Of course it might depend on scheme (zone blocking vs smash mouth, tampa 2 vs two gap), but for the most part those guys are not dependant on other positions to make plays. In fact to a certian extent other positions are dependant on linemen to make plays and be good/great players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 If Barry Sanders had played for the Lions when they didn't have solid run blocking and a solid QB, we might not have ever heard of him... Seriously, some of the greats performed even without average support around them because of, you know, timing. Yes, life is a bit of a crapshoot. You make a good point that you need to consider the environment when judging an individual, especially in a team sport. But why conclude you therefore can't judge anything and don't care? If you're just saying you don't care (about JP) anymore, may be Trent's time is here, then I completely understand, and agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 re the barry sanders arguement in the title i said that most players are based on timing, not ALL players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCCEO Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Im pretty sure JP used all of his college eligibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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