Mickey Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Flutie was not considered a good QB before coming to a VERY GOOD Bills team. He was in fact playing in the CFL. It is funny how a QB can look MUCH BETTER when surrounded by better players. Actually, that VERY GOOD Bills teams wasn't really all that good. They had struggled with Todd Collins and Billy Joe Idiot which prompted us to get RJ at a significant cost. He was the starter and I think we lost our first 3 or 4 until he got hurt well into a game against SF. Flutie then started and we ran off a string of victories so that when RJ was ready to play again, Flutie had won the job. The time between Kelly and Flutie was a bad, bad time for us. Give Flutie his due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 May argue? There were a number of RJ supporters that did in fact carry forth that argument. That does not mean they were any more right than the JP HATERS are today. You realize that just because some fans don't want to waste another year on Losman doesn't make them haters. They just realize that the odds of Losman failing again are much higher than him succeeding. If anything, you come across as hater because you seem to want Edwards to fail to valid your argument on Losman. This kinda of logic completely baffles me if you are truly a Bills' fan. You will never find a post before last year when I didn't support Losman 100%. Unfortunately, his career (despite how many excuses people have for him) is filled with more failure than success. I wish the guy nothing but the best. However, I really don't think after seeing him play for the last 3 years that he will ever be an every game starter in the NFL. I guess this makes me a hater though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 What are you talking about? Flutie was an elite QB in the CFL. The CFL, obviously, is not the NFL but is still a pro football league that has produced some great QBs (Moon, Theisman, and to a lesser extent, Jeff Garcia). Losman was a raw QB out of Tulane. Again, until Losman goes to another league and lights it up, then returns to the NFL, this is a dumb and completely invalid comparison. Flutie was playing in the CFL, not by choice, but because he could not get a job on ANY NFL team, after his stint in Chicago because he was not considered to be any good. The other QB's you named were also playing in the CFL, not by choice, but because they were deemed not good enough to play in the NFL, until a team finally gave them a chance, like Buffalo did with Flutie. There have been a number of "elite" CFL QB's who never were given the chance to play in the NFL. Like Flutie in Chicago, JP has played on some terrible teams. I think it is a fair comparison because we will never know if JP COULD be a good QB when surrounded by a good team, the same way no one knew if Flutie would be a good QB until he was finally on a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Flutie was playing in the CFL, not by choice, but because he could not get a job on ANY NFL team, after his stint in Chicago because he was not considered to be any good. The other QB's you named were also playing in the CFL, not by choice, but because they were deemed not good enough to play in the NFL, until a team finally gave them a chance, like Buffalo did with Flutie. There have been a number of "elite" CFL QB's who never were given the chance to play in the NFL. Like Flutie in Chicago, JP has played on some terrible teams. I think it is a fair comparison because we will never know if JP COULD be a good QB when surrounded by a good team, the same way no one knew if Flutie would be a good QB until he was finally on a good team. You gotta stop making up things. Losman inherited a 9-7 football team that featured Moulds (coming off a 1,000 yard season) Lee Evans, Josh Reed, and Roscoe Parrish. That is way more talent than Edwards had last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 You realize that just because some fans don't want to waste another year on Losman doesn't make them haters. They just realize that the odds of Losman failing again are much higher than him succeeding. If anything, you come across as hater because you seem to want Edwards to fail to valid your argument on Losman. This kinda of logic completely baffles me if you are truly a Bills' fan. You will never find a post before last year when I didn't support Losman 100%. Unfortunately, his career (despite how many excuses people have for him) is filled with more failure than success. I wish the guy nothing but the best. However, I really don't think after seeing him play for the last 3 years that he will ever be an every game starter in the NFL. I guess this makes me a hater though. I can respect someones opinion if they don't think JP has what it takes to be a good QB. I don't know if JP will ever be a good QB or not myself yet. I just don't think he has been given a fair shot YET. I have REPEATEDLY stated I DO NOT WANT TO SEE TRENT FAIL. If he does, it will be another WASTED season for the Bills, because JP will be GONE next year. I think what makes a person a HATER is the fact they run him down & just want him gone (doesn't matter if the Bills get nothing for him or have NO ONE to REPLACE him.) These are the same type of people that wanted Flutie gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Give Flutie his due. So what happened when Flutie went to SD? He went from "just winning" to "just losing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I can respect someones opinion if they don't think JP has what it takes to be a good QB. I don't know if JP will ever be a good QB or not myself yet. I just don't think he has been given a fair shot YET. I have REPEATEDLY stated I DO NOT WANT TO SEE TRENT FAIL. If he does, it will be another WASTED season for the Bills, because JP will be GONE next year. I think what makes a person a HATER is the fact they run him down & just want him gone (doesn't matter if the Bills get nothing for him or have NO ONE to REPLACE him.) These are the same type of people that wanted Flutie gone. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 So what happened when Flutie went to SD? He went from "just winning" to "just losing." This is a Bills' board, right? I couldn't care less about what him did in SD. All I know is that when he was the Bills' starting QB, twice we went to the playoffs and having been back since. The curse of Fluite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Friends Call Me Tebucky Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Flutie was an adequate QB that had a terrific defense. In hindsight everybody either loves or hates him...the truth, to me, is that he was somewhere in between. The only real difference between the Bills with Flutie, and the season after he was benched in favor of Rob Johnson was that their special teams suffered a collapse of epic proportions. The injury to Cowart, and losing Smith and Thomas didn't help him much either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 You gotta stop making up things. Losman inherited a 9-7 football team that featured Moulds (coming off a 1,000 yard season) Lee Evans, Josh Reed, and Roscoe Parrish. That is way more talent than Edwards had last season. Come on, thats just ridiculous. Losman came to the Bills as a 4-5 year project with a lot of talent. While QB's like Garrard and McNair sat the bench their first few years, the Bills foolishly tossed Bledsoe overboard and rushed the guy project in after missing most of his rookie season with a broken leg. Unlike the previously mentioned QB's, Losman was asked to produce early, despite not being ready. We should have sucked it up, kept Bledsoe and let JP sit the bench. By the way, Moulds hasn't has a productive season in quite some time and Parrish is a punt returner who occasionally will make a play on offense. Soon, everyone will be calling for Edwards head, despite the fact he shouldn't have even sniffed the field yet. I guess Bills fans tend to be bored, and need change in the starting lineup and roster to stay entertained............. Two good young quarterbacks gone to waste, what a shame. By the way, Flutie didn't win those games- the best defense in the NFL did. Flutie did for our offense what Trent Dilfer did for Baltimore- provided a stabilizing veteran presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenbar Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Come on, thats just ridiculous. Losman came to the Bills as a 4-5 year project with a lot of talent. While QB's like Garrard and McNair sat the bench their first few years, the Bills foolishly tossed Bledsoe overboard and rushed the guy project in after missing most of his rookie season with a broken leg. Unlike the previously mentioned QB's, Losman was asked to produce early, despite not being ready. We should have sucked it up, kept Bledsoe and let JP sit the bench. By the way, Moulds hasn't has a productive season in quite some time and Parrish is a punt returner who occasionally will make a play on offense. Soon, everyone will be calling for Edwards head, despite the fact he shouldn't have even sniffed the field yet. I guess Bills fans tend to be bored, and need change in the starting lineup and roster to stay entertained............. Two good young quarterbacks gone to waste, what a shame. By the way, Flutie didn't win those games- the best defense in the NFL did. Flutie did for our offense what Trent Dilfer did for Baltimore- provided a stabilizing veteran presence. I loved his bootleg winner against JAX....I remeber lots of games he made key third down runs and great third down conversions to keep drives going..He willed our offense to wins...Our Defense was great but you still have to score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I loved his bootleg winner against JAX....I remeber lots of games he made key third down runs and great third down conversions to keep drives going..He willed our offense to wins...Our Defense was great but you still have to score Flutie<RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Come on, thats just ridiculous. Losman came to the Bills as a 4-5 year project with a lot of talent. While QB's like Garrard and McNair sat the bench their first few years, the Bills foolishly tossed Bledsoe overboard and rushed the guy project in after missing most of his rookie season with a broken leg. Sorry, but there is so much nonsense in this post as I have ever seen. First of all, who in the hell drafts a QB in the 1st round as a 4 to 5 year project now??? No 1st rounder now sits more than 2 years. There is too much money involved in 1st round QBs, it is impossible to not let them play to see what they have. McNair was drafted and sat behind Chris Chandler, who had 2 solid seasons before McNair took over. Garrad sat the bench because he was an after thought after they drafted Leftwich. Unlike the previously mentioned QB's, Losman was asked to produce early, despite not being ready. We should have sucked it up, kept Bledsoe and let JP sit the bench. By the way, Moulds hasn't has a productive season in quite some time and Parrish is a punt returner who occasionally will make a play on offense. Again, more nonsense. Moulds had a 1,000 yard season the year before and finished with 800 yards+ during the 2005 season, which saw his numbers increase significantly with Kelly Holcomb under center. Parrish was a 4th receiver on that team. He was a number # 3 on this year's. Soon, everyone will be calling for Edwards head, despite the fact he shouldn't have even sniffed the field yet. I guess Bills fans tend to be bored, and need change in the starting lineup and roster to stay entertained............. Two good young quarterbacks gone to waste, what a shame. Again, in this league now, you don't have time to develop QBs. It is a win now league. Especially when a team hasn't made the playoffs in 10 years. Edwards outplayed Losman in camp and Losman lost his job to TE on two separate occasions. The coaches, who have their jobs riding on this season, believe TE gives the Bills the best chance to win. You really think Dick Jauron could give 2 craps what Adam on Two Bills Drive says about the QB position??? No offense, but your opinion to him is worthless. So, Edwards is ready to play. By the way, Flutie didn't win those games- the best defense in the NFL did. Flutie did for our offense what Trent Dilfer did for Baltimore- provided a stabilizing veteran presence. And for your final piece of misinformation, you go historical. Flutie had a almost 2 td to int ratio (20-11) in his first year as a Bills' starter. If you do that in this league, it means you had a really good season. Your brilliant connection with Dilfer (who had a 12 td to 11 int ratio) is completely (again nothing personal) stupid. The Ravens had one of the best historically defenses of all time. To further illustrate how completely wrong you are about the defense carrying Flutie, check this out http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/ In 1998, the Bills' defense finished 15th in points against and 6th in yards allowed. However, the offense (led by Flutie) finished 7th in points scored and 6th in yards. But according to Adam on TBD, the defense carried Flutie. How could the defense carried Flutie if they statistically outplayed them??? Again, nothing personal but don't call out someone posts if you can backup your argument. It will just make you look foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 You people STILL arguing Flutie/RJ are just a WEE BIT LATE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 You people STILL arguing Flutie/RJ are just a WEE BIT LATE. It's been a crappy 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 It's been a crappy 10 years. And it is June 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Again, more nonsense. Moulds had a 1,000 yard season the year before and finished with 800 yards+ during the 2005 season, which saw his numbers increase significantly with Kelly Holcomb under center. Parrish was a 4th receiver on that team. He was a number # 3 on this year's. Again, in this league now, you don't have time to develop QBs. It is a win now league. Especially when a team hasn't made the playoffs in 10 years. Edwards outplayed Losman in camp and Losman lost his job to TE on two separate occasions. The coaches, who have their jobs riding on this season, believe TE gives the Bills the best chance to win. You really think Dick Jauron could give 2 craps what Adam on Two Bills Drive says about the QB position??? No offense, but your opinion to him is worthless. So, Edwards is ready to play. I don't care if the fans don't have patience for a QB to develop, and neither should the front office. The fans will continue to come, like the robots they are. What else is there to do up there other than watch the Bills? Holcomb was a veteran QB at that point. When the fans give up on Edwards, I hope the Bills tell the fans to stick it- literally.....and the fans will still come, because there is nothing else for them to do except play darts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I don't care if the fans don't have patience for a QB to develop, and neither should the front office. The fans will continue to come, like the robots they are. What else is there to do up there other than watch the Bills? Holcomb was a veteran QB at that point. When the fans give up on Edwards, I hope the Bills tell the fans to stick it- literally.....and the fans will still come, because there is nothing else for them to do except play darts Well there is the Canadian Ballet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Edwards threw a pic to POZ, but also had a beautiful pin-point pass to Josh Reed. He will be fine! DOOOOMED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Well there is the Canadian Ballet. I don't mean to ba a %^$^$ but man, I remember when I was kid- what the heck happened up there....its sad what has happened to that town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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