Dibs Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Not meaning to throw gasoline on a flame, but let me posit a scenario. We're talking about (a) Jauron and (b) Edwards being the key to the upcoming season. Fair enough. Let's stop treating them as though they're separate outcomes, because they're not. Here comes the twister..... What happens if JP simply lights up training camp? What happens if he shows an uncanny ability to get rid of the ball under pressure? What happens if his "short game" improves? What happens if he shows the same laser-lock long bombs he showed LAST training camp? Let's make it MORE interesting. Maybe....just maybe....Trent takes a step back. Not "sucks", just "takes a step back", such that there is a clear, uninterrupted ray of light between the two quarterbacks. (Side note - I know this post will result in the usual vomit of "JP sucks", or "I'll fuggin' kill myself". Serious posters only need apply). JP lit it up in training camp last year. You know it. I know it. What if it happens THIS year? You're Jauron, and you have an "Oh, schit" on your hands. Won't THAT tell you a few things about the coach? About the direction of the team? And, again, please refrain from the "Oh, God, if JP takes the helm there will be a return to world communism, starvation, and locusts". Put some thought into it. Those things could happen......but the likelihood at this point is to say that success depends on TE(if you were to be picking 2 factors). IIRC it was actually TE that made people sit up & take notice of his performances in the pre-season.....not so much JPL.
AKC Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 We're talking about (a) Jauron and (b) Edwards being the key to the upcoming season. Fair enough. What happens if JP simply lights up training camp? What happens if he shows an uncanny ability to get rid of the ball under pressure? What happens if his "short game" improves? What happens if he shows the same laser-lock long bombs he showed LAST training camp? Or (G)god forbid if the media and almost every casual fan of the game's obsession with QB is looney, and the QB is actually the 7th or 14th or maybe only 18th most important player on most NFL teams, do you have another scenario about what position the real fight for the success of the 2008 Bills might be built upon?
Pyrite Gal Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Well, yes, it is rather ironic. The reason I lost confidence over the Dallas game was exactly as you point out: just run the ball a couple times. Simple.It's right there in front of them, and they still found a way to mess it up. It is also another example of the coaching staff just simply not getting it done. You're comments are hardly a glowing endorsement of D.J.. He can't win being conservative, and doesn't play it conservative when he should. Don't blame me. BTW, this is not a discussion of chance, or a probability experiment. If it were, chances are the Bills would have been back to the playoffs by now. They haven't been, and have one of longest current playoff droughts in the NFL. You are write you deserve no blame. The fault here lies with the one common denominator through the end of the Butler era and the TD era. The one common denominator with the end of the Phillips reign, the GW error, and the Eminem episode which is none other than Ralphie. He deserves great praise for his efforts keeping the Bills here and changing course from the old ways to open his wallet for Bruce Smith and the gang. However, just as it would be silly to ignore the great things he did for the Bills because of his mistakes handling the end of the Butler era and managing TD, it also would be silly to ignore his mistakes because of the good things he did. If there is any blame to be given the buck stops with the top man.
Dibs Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 ......the QB is actually the 7th or 14th or maybe only 18th most important player on most NFL teams......
Bill from NYC Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 What happens if JP simply lights up training camp? What happens if he shows an uncanny ability to get rid of the ball under pressure? What happens if his "short game" improves? What happens if he shows the same laser-lock long bombs he showed LAST training camp? Let's make it MORE interesting. Maybe....just maybe....Trent takes a step back. Not "sucks", just "takes a step back", such that there is a clear, uninterrupted ray of light between the two quarterbacks. (Side note - I know this post will result in the usual vomit of "JP sucks", or "I'll fuggin' kill myself". Serious posters only need apply). JP lit it up in training camp last year. You know it. I know it. What if it happens THIS year? You're Jauron, and you have an "Oh, schit" on your hands. Won't THAT tell you a few things about the coach? About the direction of the team? And, again, please refrain from the "Oh, God, if JP takes the helm there will be a return to world communism, starvation, and locusts". Put some thought into it. Funny, but substitute "Rob Johnson" for JP and there were literally thousands of posts such as this back in the day. I know because some of them were mine. JP has a strong arm and he is a good runner. Still, he is a failure as we speak, to the extent that he seems to have little to no trade value, and is frequently mentioned on lists of first round bust quarterbacks. The fact that a rookie, with no weapons, could come right in and outplay Losman says a ton. And, if all of that isn't enough, JP popped off to the press about the coaching staff after a game. Do you think that Jauron appreciates this? In any event, I think that I will chalk up your scenario to the "anything is possible but don't hold your breath" category.
Bill from NYC Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Wouldn't "sucks" actaully be a step forward? Trent does need work; I admit this. Still, for you to ever like him he will have to get better at throwing balls into the stands, and pretending that he is a firstbaseman throwing infield practice between innings. As bad as you think Trent is, just how bad is Losman to have lost his job to him?
Pyrite Gal Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Funny, but substitute "Rob Johnson" for JP and there were literally thousands of posts such as this back in the day. I know because some of them were mine. JP has a strong arm and he is a good runner. Still, he is a failure as we speak, to the extent that he seems to have little to no trade value, and is frequently mentioned on lists of first round bust quarterbacks. The fact that a rookie, with no weapons, could come right in and outplay Losman says a ton. And, if all of that isn't enough, JP popped off to the press about the coaching staff after a game. Do you think that Jauron appreciates this? In any event, I think that I will chalk up your scenario to the "anything is possible but don't hold your breath" category. I think JP's trade value is not so much based on an assessment of an absolute measure of his talent but a convergence of the fact he has not set the world on fire with racking up Ws and that in the off-season he can be had as an FA without giving anything up in trade value at all. Why trade value for a player who is talented but MAY not prove to be your deliverance in the short term when you can get him for a contingency contract and whatever the market dictates in the near short-term. My sense is that if things go according to the Bills plans (Edwards secures the job with good play on the field this season) then JP gets to sort through the market looking for: 1. A team that needs a QB (likely tons of them) 2. A team with an offense that fits his style (good blockers on a team with a mobile pocket and more of a free lance opportunistic style (more like the Packers or Cowboys style than the Bills) 3. With the cap room to either pay him a deal contingent production or a one year prove yourself deal (after the last CBA there is lots of cap room out there) My guess is that teams see little value in trading for a player who MAY or MAY not yield short term benefits (he has never had success with the Bills so there is some risk) whom you can get without giving up trade value for him soon if you want him.
ieatcrayonz Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Trent does need work; I admit this. Still, for you to ever like him he will have to get better at throwing balls into the stands, and pretending that he is a firstbaseman throwing infield practice between innings. As bad as you think Trent is, just how bad is Losman to have lost his job to him? Trent came in when clean up the city boy was hurt. When you consider the FACT that Trent put up more points against his opponents than anyone on their schedule except the teams they had played already how could you pull him? Plus he pretty much singlehandedly beat Dallas until the special teams and defense blew it. JP didn't lose his job any more than the guy who "lost" his job to Lou Gehrig. I think his name was Wally Knight. Gehrig had a good glove just like Trent.
Beerball Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Trent came in when clean up the city boy was hurt. When you consider the FACT that Trent put up more points against his opponents than anyone on their schedule except the teams they had played already how could you pull him? Plus he pretty much singlehandedly beat Dallas until the special teams and defense blew it. JP didn't lose his job any more than the guy who "lost" his job to Lou Gehrig. I think his name was Wally Knight. Gehrig had a good glove just like Trent. Pipp
ieatcrayonz Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Wally Ooooooh. I knew it had something to do with someone named Gladys. The Gladys here is not as efficient of a worker as her sister Ginny, but Ginny is pretty immobile at this point what with the size of that Werther's Original. Are you still not willing to help a friend in need?
Beerball Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Ooooooh. I knew it had something to do with someone named Gladys. The Gladys here is not as efficient of a worker as her sister Ginny, but Ginny is pretty immobile at this point what with the size of that Werther's Original. Are you still not willing to help a friend in need? You are forgetting my diabetes?
ieatcrayonz Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 You are forgetting my diabetes? I'm pretty sure of these things: 1. Werther's Originals have high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. 2. You always ate the ones Ginny gave to you so kindly. What is the hesitation now? This whole thing is your fault because you swept up the wrong area. 3. I can't say number three because it will seem inappropriate even though it is not. Let me try to word it in a non-offensive manner. You can dissolve it without ingesting it.
Pyrite Gal Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Trent came in when clean up the city boy was hurt. When you consider the FACT that Trent put up more points against his opponents than anyone on their schedule except the teams they had played already how could you pull him? Plus he pretty much singlehandedly beat Dallas until the special teams and defense blew it. JP didn't lose his job any more than the guy who "lost" his job to Lou Gehrig. I think his name was Wally Knight. Gehrig had a good glove just like Trent. There is plenty of "credit" to be shared for losing the Dallas game. Definitely the D get a huge deserved share for not stopping a desperate 'Boys offense on several late drives and the ST (with some helpful clock work by the officials) blew plays like recovering an onside kick. However, Edwards get gets his fair share of the blame for throwing an INT when we were in the redzone and most of all Fairchild and DJ were ironically way too aggressive when they attempted to stick a fork in the 'Boys by throwing the ball deep in their territory when three runs not only would have burned clock when we lost on a play with less than 10 seconds left and the chip shot FG we would have had after the runs would almost certainly have won the game for us. Laying credit for coming close to a win which was made for us by the D forcing a ton of turnovers and also trying to exempt the offense for its fair share of the blame for the loss is not credible.
ieatcrayonz Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 There is plenty of "credit" to be shared for losing the Dallas game. Definitely the D get a huge deserved share for not stopping a desperate 'Boys offense on several late drives and the ST (with some helpful clock work by the officials) blew plays like recovering an onside kick. However, Edwards get gets his fair share of the blame for throwing an INT when we were in the redzone and most of all Fairchild and DJ were ironically way too aggressive when they attempted to stick a fork in the 'Boys by throwing the ball deep in their territory when three runs not only would have burned clock when we lost on a play with less than 10 seconds left and the chip shot FG we would have had after the runs would almost certainly have won the game for us. Laying credit for coming close to a win which was made for us by the D forcing a ton of turnovers and also trying to exempt the offense for its fair share of the blame for the loss is not credible. I hate it when we disagree sweetie but we have to on this one. Trent basically showed America all night that he was the next Joe Montana and Bill Walsh even said so. Then Fairchild forces him to throw a ball that requires a strong arm . What did he expect? That was not Trent's fault. He was just following orders. Trent was great all night which shows by the Bills point total. Nuff said.
Adam Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 WRONG: You answers are incorrect. Thank you for playing. Next contestant. Sorry, but he is RIGHT. Reality sometimes hurts, I know......
San-O Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 Sorry, but he is RIGHT. Reality sometimes hurts, I know...... Well, I think 'he' is a she, but: WRONG: This is a three part question, please respond appropriately. (Think The McLaughlin Group)
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 27, 2008 Posted May 27, 2008 I think JP's trade value is not so much based on an assessment of an absolute measure of his talent but a convergence of the fact he has not set the world on fire with racking up Ws and that in the off-season he can be had as an FA without giving anything up in trade value at all. Why trade value for a player who is talented but MAY not prove to be your deliverance in the short term when you can get him for a contingency contract and whatever the market dictates in the near short-term. My sense is that if things go according to the Bills plans (Edwards secures the job with good play on the field this season) then JP gets to sort through the market looking for: 1. A team that needs a QB (likely tons of them) 2. A team with an offense that fits his style (good blockers on a team with a mobile pocket and more of a free lance opportunistic style (more like the Packers or Cowboys style than the Bills) 3. With the cap room to either pay him a deal contingent production or a one year prove yourself deal (after the last CBA there is lots of cap room out there) My guess is that teams see little value in trading for a player who MAY or MAY not yield short term benefits (he has never had success with the Bills so there is some risk) whom you can get without giving up trade value for him soon if you want him. Your best post ever.
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 I think JP's trade value is not so much based on an assessment of an absolute measure of his talent but a convergence of the fact he has not set the world on fire with racking up Ws NFL personnel people will not look at the wins at all. They understand this is a team sport. They will however look at the tape of Losman and observe that he has flaws to his game as well as talent. They then have to determine if his flaws are correctable with proper coaching and if his talent fits with the systems they want to run. and that in the off-season he can be had as an FA without giving anything up in trade value at all. Yep. Why trade value for a player who is talented but MAY not prove to be your deliverance in the short term when you can get him for a contingency contract and whatever the market dictates in the near short-term. Said another way, why give up draft picks and time to try and develop a guy in-house on a 1 year contract when you already probably have some young QBs on the roster? And, yes, unless JP does a new deal, he'll hit the market next year from whatever team trades for him. My sense is that if things go according to the Bills plans (Edwards secures the job with good play on the field this season) then JP gets to sort through the market looking for: 1. A team that needs a QB (likely tons of them) 2. A team with an offense that fits his style (good blockers on a team with a mobile pocket and more of a free lance opportunistic style (more like the Packers or Cowboys style than the Bills) 3. With the cap room to either pay him a deal contingent production or a one year prove yourself deal (after the last CBA there is lots of cap room out there) My guess is that teams see little value in trading for a player who MAY or MAY not yield short term benefits (he has never had success with the Bills so there is some risk) whom you can get without giving up trade value for him soon if you want him. Add to that that there is still a strong motivation for teams to develop their own guys rather than try the salvage route of taking players left on the scrap heap by other teams and trying to pump new life into their flagging careers. Even more so when the guy is a 1st round QB, since an NFL executive will be more likely to contort himself into a pretzel than suffer the ignominy of associating his team with a "mega-bust QB".
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