Chilly Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Yeah, he's a politician. What's your point? Thats *exactly* my point: this idea that he's "different" from politicians isn't correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 He seems to tell people what they want to hear in certain situations, even if it contradicts previous statements. I don't really see how that makes him all that different from McCain or most candidates. I believe he does have deeply held beliefs. Most of these people are two-faced. Not all of them have strongly-held beliefs. The Clintons believe in nothing more than poll numbers, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I believe he does have deeply held beliefs. Most of these people are two-faced. Not all of them have strongly-held beliefs. The Clintons believe in nothing more than poll numbers, for example. I would disagree - I think the Clinton's do too, but they set those aside to chase poll numbers. In contrast, the image that Obama has developed for himself depends on him portraying some strongly held beliefs, so he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 I believe he does have deeply held beliefs. The ones he learned from Rev Wright, or the ones he showed when he threw him under the bus with grandma when they became a liability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 So he's a socialist. Show me a candidate that won't take my money and waste it, and I'll vote for that one. So are you saying Obama won't take your money and waste it? Or are you saying all the major party candidates will waste your money, so vote for the one that orates "unity" rather than some other rhetoric, even though there's no logical or empirical reason why orating on the nebulous concept of "unity" makes the rhetoric any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Thats *exactly* my point: this idea that he's "different" from politicians isn't correct. BINGO WAS HIS NAME-O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 The ones he learned from Rev Wright, or the ones he showed when he threw him under the bus with grandma when they became a liability? I love you PJ, but do you really not realize what a sham your political understanding is? Are you really that dense? Don't worry, I still heart you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 I love you PJ, but do you really not realize what a sham your political understanding is? Are you really that dense? Don't worry, I still heart you. I understand quite well that Obama cozied up to Wright to get street cred in Chicago when he was a local candidate, and then had to distance himself as a national candidate. But as said before, that just makes him the same old calculating politician that he and his supporters claim he isn't, and shoots down that claim of "change". To not realize that obvious fact would be dense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I understand quite well that Obama cozied up to Wright to get street cred in Chicago when he was a local candidate, and then had to distance himself as a national candidate. But as said before, that just makes him the same old calculating politician that he and his supporters claim he isn't, and shoots down that claim of "change". To not realize that obvious fact would be dense. Your avatar is missing a beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Your avatar is missing a beard so you want change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 So are you saying Obama won't take your money and waste it? Or are you saying all the major party candidates will waste your money, so vote for the one that orates "unity" rather than some other rhetoric, even though there's no logical or empirical reason why orating on the nebulous concept of "unity" makes the rhetoric any different? No, actually I was saying that it's disingenious to complain the specific way someone wants to waste your money when it's pretty much all waste. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...give me a candidate that'll cut the federal budget, start paying off the federal debt, and veto everything that comes out of Congress, and I'll support that candidate. Until then, they're all shades of the same leporous grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 The ones he learned from Rev Wright, or the ones he showed when he threw him under the bus with grandma when they became a liability? Your party is !@#$ing itself right up it's ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Obama doesn't talk outside of both sides of his mouth? In Florida, he's for NASA funding; outside of Florida, he's against it. He supported the good reverend, then had to denounce him after "shocking" comments (which weren't anything new). His talk doesn't match up with his plans on his website. Oh, and: http://www.slate.com//id/2189485 Have any links to stories substantiating any of that? As far as I can tell the only public comments he has made about NASA are that he wants to delay one program and divert funds to education. But he similarly supports other NASA programs. Same with his chatter vs. website. I don't see anything there terribly out of whack (or at all?) with what I hear him say in campaign speeches. That being said - I don't really expect too much from any politician, so when I see one who seems to lie on a full order of magnitude less than his opposition, I'm at least intrigued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 "Swing State" is now a set of racist code words for "white voters." Or as Hillary said, "hard working white voters." Amazing that the "progressive" Clintons would resort to racist campaign tactics huh? If she manages to steal the nomination from Obama, I think that many AAs would stay home and assure a repub victory. That said, it's a done deal. The only ones who think she has a chance are her, and perhaps you. I totally agree with you Bill... I am no fan of what Hillary is doing pandering to the racist element... And before anybody flames me... Look at the other states that have poorer working class whites that voted 180 degrees opposite KY and WV did. The funny thing is that Hillary is pandering to this crowd and than will go to the DNC and try and have an elitist ruling oveturn the nomination for Obama... Can you say holy hypocritical BatMan! Obama's tactics are brilliant... Don't even go there... Let Hillary do all the dirty work with the racist slobs in the Dem party that will most likely jump to McCain anyway (that must be a real badge of honor for John McCain! ) Obama is using Hillary as the b*tch she is... And she will have to heal the party... No quarter asked, none given... That is what she would do... And it infuriates her! Flame away Pasta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Have any links to stories substantiating any of that? As far as I can tell the only public comments he has made about NASA are that he wants to delay one program and divert funds to education. But he similarly supports other NASA programs. http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_spac...-delay-moo.html http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/12/0433208 Same with his chatter vs. website. I don't see anything there terribly out of whack (or at all?) with what I hear him say in campaign speeches. My biggest problem: he claims he is going to stop pork, but his website says he's only going to make it transparent. He claims he's for fiscal responsibility, yet he doesn't have ways to pay for all the things he wants to do. There were other examples I picked up on during the debates (including some of his being against negative campaigning while engaging in it) that I can't remember off-hand. One example not related to his website: He claims his ideas are for "change", but outside of a few exceptions, are similar to the Democratic party platform, and his voting record indicates that he typically always falls directly in like with them. That being said - I don't really expect too much from any politician, so when I see one who seems to lie on a full order of magnitude less than his opposition, I'm at least intrigued. Which is the image that Obama has created, quite frankly a pretty good one for the political environment (and is why McCain is also popular at the moment, though since he has a long political history he's at a disadvantage). Of course, the biggest part of the problem is that people keep voting for the same policy ideas from the same people, instead of voting for candidates outside of the mainstream and forcing the mainstream to change. 'Tis why I'm not going to vote for any of the "big 3". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Thats *exactly* my point: this idea that he's "different" from politicians isn't correct. Did he vote for the war? Then he is different than other politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Your party is !@#$ing itself right up it's ass. Actually it is the opposite... Hillary needs to stay in as long as possible... Best thing that can happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 The ones he learned from Rev Wright, or the ones he showed when he threw him under the bus with grandma when they became a liability? kind of response I would expect from a Hillary supporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Actually it is the opposite... Hillary needs to stay in as long as possible... Best thing that can happen! So all McCain has to say during the general: "What they said." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 So all McCain has to say during the general: "What they said." I have no problem with that... In the long run, what is happening will push people to make choices... Wrong or right. IMO, I am thinking right... Yet, like I said in the other thread, everything is for the best in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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