Hillary wins another swing state

[Wacka]

Get the popcorn ready!

[blzrul]

In Michigan Obama took his name off the ballot, it wasn't required, because he knew he was going to lose and wanted a way to discredit Clinton's projected win. He still told voters to vote Uncommitted, and of those votes, not all can be claimed by him since many may have been for Edwards. And I was always for a revote in both states, as was Hillary, but Obama's representatives blocked it, because they knew it was politically advantageous to disinfranchise those voters.

Not sure what you're smoking but BOTH candidates agreed not to campaign in MI and FL BEFORE the primaries because it was made quite clear that the primaries were illegal and would not count. They signed an agreement. Saying so-and-so won isn't accurate. You have no way of knowing who didn't vote...the die-hards sure, but not the indepdents and undecideds. I wouldn't have bothered if I knew in advance my vote wouldn't count - unless I was a diehard who wanted to make a statement. If the DNC felt that there was a fair way of counting those results with any degree of comfort that they were accurate, it would have been done. All discussions went back to "revote".

 

It was not Obama's people who blocked it. Howard Dean said "go for it" to the states but told the states THEY would have to pay for it, not the DNC. At that point the discussion fizzled away. The states didn't want to pony up the $10m it could have cost and they couldn't agree on an expeditious way to vote in time for the convention.

[yall]

So many people with so many mistakes, I don't know where to start.

 

Well you got that part right.

 

Let's see, Ohio, Penn., WV, Florida, Michigan, and Kentucky are racist because they're swing states that went for Hillary. White people voting for Hillary are racist because she's white, black people voting for Obama because he's black aren't racist. Women vote for Hillary because she's a woman, men vote for Obama because he's inspirational, not because he's a man. So much for consistancy.

 

Way to miss the point. Obama ins't complaining about who or who does not vote for him. Clinton and her people do. Get it?

 

If she gets the nomination by getting enough superdelegates to vote for her, which is the requirement since neither can win with pledged delegates, she's stealing it, even though Obama hasn't won it yet. But if Obama gets the nomination by convincing enough superdelegates to vote for him, he's not stealing it, even if she gets more popular votes.

 

Again - she doesn't have more popular votes. She doesn't have more pledged deligates. She doesn't have more superdeligates. She loses by every metric. So yeah, if she did somehow get the nod, she would be stealing it. Don't worry though PJ - she won't get it.

 

In Michigan Obama took his name off the ballot, it wasn't required, because he knew he was going to lose and wanted a way to discredit Clinton's projected win. He still told voters to vote Uncommitted, and of those votes, not all can be claimed by him since many may have been for Edwards. And I was always for a revote in both states, as was Hillary, but Obama's representatives blocked it, because they knew it was politically advantageous to disinfranchise those voters.

 

He took his name off the ballot because it was the right thing to do. All of the other candidates did it as well. Except for the one shady one. I suppose they all knew Clitnon was gonna win though, right? Which begs the question, if they knew the will of the voters, why even bother to run against Clinton? Why have an election at all? Everyone in the Democratic party obviously wanted her to be president. And by everyone I mean the minority of voters, deligates and superdeligates.

 

Your horse lost. It's over.

[Alaska Darin]

Not sure what you're smoking but BOTH candidates agreed not to campaign in MI and FL BEFORE the primaries because it was made quite clear that the primaries were illegal and would not count. They signed an agreement. Saying so-and-so won isn't accurate. You have no way of knowing who didn't vote...the die-hards sure, but not the indepdents and undecideds. I wouldn't have bothered if I knew in advance my vote wouldn't count - unless I was a diehard who wanted to make a statement. If the DNC felt that there was a fair way of counting those results with any degree of comfort that they were accurate, it would have been done. All discussions went back to "revote".

 

It was not Obama's people who blocked it. Howard Dean said "go for it" to the states but told the states THEY would have to pay for it, not the DNC. At that point the discussion fizzled away. The states didn't want to pony up the $10m it could have cost and they couldn't agree on an expeditious way to vote in time for the convention.

In fairness to Joe, it's just as accurate as his "the Republicans in Florida pushed through legislation to change the primary date". You know, ignoring that the Democrats in the state voted unanimously for the measure.

 

These are the people in your party...

[UConn James]

And I was always for a revote in both states, as was Hillary, but Obama's representatives blocked it, because they knew it was politically advantageous to disinfranchise those voters.

 

Those states disenfranchised themselves.

 

They were told the consequences of pushing up their primary date --- the loss of their delegates at the convention --- and did it anyway (and as AD has pointed out numerous times, this was unanimous and bipartisan).

 

If the DNC now allows the votes to be counted and for the delegates to seat, it's a slap in the face to the system that was created to bring a geographically diverse range of results early in the process. Fla and Mich. flouted that, going against that Midwestern axiom of "don't think you're important because you're not." If they are seated, what's to stop, say, New York or Texas from having their primaries on Oct. 1? You cannot reward someone for cutting in line. It encourages others to do the same.

 

Seriously, the leapfrogging for attention has risen to new heights of stupidity. They couldn't get a re-vote worked out in time, under the proper circumstances fair to everyone or cost. A revote would have been ideal, but responsibility lies with the state leaders, and ultimately in our representative democracy, on the people who elected them. If those states' citizens are displeased with how their state leaders voted, they should watch how they vote in their state elections.

 

Maybe next time all this moving up primary dates won't won't be chaotic and stupid and rife with "We're better than you, so we're going first"... but don't count on it.

[Live&DieBillsFootball]

Hillary reminds me of the Black Knight in "The Holy Grail"

 

Black Knight: None shall pass.

Arthur: What?

Black Knight: None shall pass.

Arthur: I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight, but I must cross this bridge.

Black Knight: Then you shall die.

Arthur: I command you as King of the Britons to stand aside!

Black Knight: I move for no man.

Arthur: So be it!

 

 

Arthur cuts off the Black Knight's left arm.

 

Arthur: Now stand aside, worthy adversary.

Black Knight: 'Tis but a scratch.

Arthur: A scratch? Your arm's off!

Black Knight: No, it isn't.

Arthur: Well, what's that then?

Black Knight: I've had worse.

Arthur: You liar!

Black Knight: Come on you pansy!

 

Arthur cuts off the Black Knight's right arm.

 

 

Arthur: Victory is mine! We thank thee Lord, that in thy mercy...

 

 

Black Knight: Come on then.

Arthur: What?

Black Knight: Have at you!

Arthur: You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine.

Black Knight: Oh, had enough, eh?

Arthur: Look, you stupid bastard, you've got no arms left.

Black Knight: Yes I have.

Arthur: Look!

Black Knight: Just a flesh wound.

Arthur: Look, stop that.

Black Knight: Chicken! Chicken!

Arthur: Look, I'll have your leg. Right!

 

 

Arthur cuts off the Black Knight's leg.

 

 

Black Knight: Right, I'll do you for that!

Arthur: You'll what?

Black Knight: Come 'ere!

Arthur: What are you going to do, bleed on me?

Black Knight: I'm invincible!

Arthur: You're a loony.

Black Knight: The Black Knight always triumphs! Have at you! Come on then.

 

Arthur cuts off the Black Knight's other leg.

 

 

Black Knight: All right; we'll call it a draw.

Arthur: Come, Patsy.

Black Knight: Oh, oh, I see, running away then. You yellow bastard! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!

 

[Sketch Soland]

Hillary reminds me of the Black Knight in "The Holy Grail"

 

 

:lol:

[PastaJoe]

Not sure what you're smoking but BOTH candidates agreed not to campaign in MI and FL BEFORE the primaries because it was made quite clear that the primaries were illegal and would not count. They signed an agreement. Saying so-and-so won isn't accurate. You have no way of knowing who didn't vote...the die-hards sure, but not the indepdents and undecideds. I wouldn't have bothered if I knew in advance my vote wouldn't count - unless I was a diehard who wanted to make a statement. If the DNC felt that there was a fair way of counting those results with any degree of comfort that they were accurate, it would have been done. All discussions went back to "revote".

 

It was not Obama's people who blocked it. Howard Dean said "go for it" to the states but told the states THEY would have to pay for it, not the DNC. At that point the discussion fizzled away. The states didn't want to pony up the $10m it could have cost and they couldn't agree on an expeditious way to vote in time for the convention.

 

They signed an agreement not to campaign. It was the DNC that said the delegates wouldn't be seated. The candidates didn't agree to that, that's what they were told. Even if the delegates aren't seated, the people did vote and their votes are on record.

 

Private donations were lined up to pay for the revotes in both states. Money wasn't the issue. The governors said they were willing to allow revotes, but they wanted all parties to agree that it should take place. If they did they would have revoted in June. Hillary agreed, the DNC agreed, but Obama wouldn't agree.

[Chilly]

Where do you get this stuff? So I guess Edwards did the same thing? What about the other candidates? Only Hillary was on the ballot against party rules.

 

There could have been a re-vote in Florida, they ran out of the time... they could not decide on who would pay for it. I know this because I designed the re-vote ballot, the firm I work with had it ready to go to print. We just needed a final approval or clearance. Obviously never came.

 

Hey now, don't forget Gravel!

[Wacka]

Munching on my popcorn

[Chef Jim]

Hillary reminds me of the Black Knight in "The Holy Grail"

 

 

We just bought that movie and watched it this past weekend. Classic!!

 

I actually think this scene sums Hillary's situation up more:

 

The Dead Collector: Bring out yer dead.

[a man puts a body on the cart]

Large Man with Dead Body: Here's one.

The Dead Collector: That'll be ninepence.

The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.

The Dead Collector: What?

Large Man with Dead Body: Nothing. There's your ninepence.

The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.

The Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.

Large Man with Dead Body: Yes he is.

The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not.

The Dead Collector: He isn't.

Large Man with Dead Body: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.

The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm getting better.

Large Man with Dead Body: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.

The Dead Collector: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.

The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I don't want to go on the cart.

Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, don't be such a baby.

The Dead Collector: I can't take him.

The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel fine.

Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, do me a favor.

The Dead Collector: I can't.

Large Man with Dead Body: Well, can you hang around for a couple of minutes? He won't be long.

The Dead Collector: I promised I'd be at the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.

Large Man with Dead Body: Well, when's your next round?

The Dead Collector: Thursday.

The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I think I'll go for a walk.

Large Man with Dead Body: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Isn't there anything you could do?

The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel happy. I feel happy.

[the Dead Collector glances up and down the street furtively, then silences the Body with his a whack of his club]

Large Man with Dead Body: Ah, thank you very much.

The Dead Collector: Not at all. See you on Thursday.

Large Man with Dead Body: Right.

[stuckincincy]

They signed an agreement not to campaign. It was the DNC that said the delegates wouldn't be seated. The candidates didn't agree to that, that's what they were told. Even if the delegates aren't seated, the people did vote and their votes are on record.

 

Private donations were lined up to pay for the revotes in both states. Money wasn't the issue. The governors said they were willing to allow revotes, but they wanted all parties to agree that it should take place. If they did they would have revoted in June. Hillary agreed, the DNC agreed, but Obama wouldn't agree.

 

I'm glad to see that the humble chad isn't being blamed anymore. That's important when it comes to disenfranchisment.

 

Amazing and assured, since we have a Democratic Governor elected in OH in 2006, and despite OH election results being delayed across the State in '07, long lines, etc. - even in those still-Democratically controlled counties that were the hotbeds of the claimed disenfranchisement when there was a Republican Governor....well, all is, and now, fair.

 

All voting problems screamed about can be solved in a year, the evidence says.

[finknottle]

Where do you get this stuff? So I guess Edwards did the same thing? What about the other candidates? Only Hillary was on the ballot against party rules.

 

There could have been a re-vote in Florida, they ran out of the time... they could not decide on who would pay for it. I know this because I designed the re-vote ballot, the firm I work with had it ready to go to print. We just needed a final approval or clearance. Obviously never came.

 

First, it wasn't against party rules at all, and Kucinich was on the ballot too. Edwards and Obama pulled out as a tactical move, believing at the time that front-runner Clinton would have little to gain by winning and everything to lose by falling to 'undecided.' Their prominant backers in the state, including Rep John Conyers, publically called for their supporters to vote undecided.

 

As for the revote in Florida, I believe Clinton backers came up with the money. The effort was torpedoed by Obama supporters on the grounds that mailing ballots would disenfranchise those voters who were not home in the summer.

[finknottle]

They signed an agreement not to campaign. It was the DNC that said the delegates wouldn't be seated. The candidates didn't agree to that, that's what they were told.

 

A subtle and frequently distorted point. The candidates agreed to not campaign, and publically agreed to support the DNC. They did *not* go on record as saying they agreed with the particular judgement.

 

That's just common sense, politically. You don't make enemies unneccessarily and paint yourself into a corner.

[blzrul]

Here's something else interesting about the "redneck races". Draw your own conclusions:

 

"Even in a state Hillary Clinton appears to have won by 35 points, a majority of Kentucky voters say the New York senator attacked Barack Obama unfairly.

 

According to the exit polls, 54 percent of voters said Clinton launched unfair attacks on Obama, though that didn't seem to deter voters there from supporting Clinton — 55 percent of those who said Clinton attacked unfairly still voted for the New York senator.

 

Clinton faced a similar statistic in West Virginia last week. There she won by 41 points, but nearly 60 percent of voters said she made unfair attacks against the Illinois senator."

 

(CNN)

So does it mean that Clinton's people have enough of a conscience to recognize unfairness, but too little to care? Are they holding their nose and voting for the lesser of two evils? Are they rednecked bigots? Who knows. I don't think white people who vote for Hillary are bigots any more than I think that women who vote for Obama are turncoats. The media is really the only interested party to THAT insofar as they can stir up "news" about it.

[blzrul]

As for the revote in Florida, I believe Clinton backers came up with the money. The effort was torpedoed by Obama supporters on the grounds that mailing ballots would disenfranchise those voters who were not home in the summer.

Of course - a "revote" in order to insure integrity of the process and fairness to all had to meet those criteria. Given the time and logistics constraints it wasn't possible.

 

Republicans could understand that of course because it was based on "time" that they forced the 2000 election decision. Apparently if the election wasn't certified by a certain date, the world was going to explode. Or something like that. Good thing it didn't happen (until 9/11). But that's a different thread.

[Chef Jim]

Here's something else interesting about the "redneck races". Draw your own conclusions:

 

"Even in a state Hillary Clinton appears to have won by 35 points, a majority of Kentucky voters say the New York senator attacked Barack Obama unfairly. But seeing he's black it's ok.

 

You missed the rest of the quote.

[Kelly the Dog]

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

 

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"

 

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=zydzt

[yall]

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

 

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"

 

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=zydzt

 

She was against it before she was for it.

[Lakesider]

Note to BlueFire: Using the words Honestly and Hillary in the same post sets up an irreconcilable oxymoron....