Anyone remember the Psychic thread?

[Gene Frenkle]

I quoted the Amazing Randi above but he's not always right. You need to watch a show about police who use psychics. I would say about 99% of the people who claim to be psychic aren't. There really are psychic people in the world you need to open your mind to it.

 

The people I believe are psychic have images that come to mind but don't have a concrete idea of what they mean.

 

I saw one show where a psychic was called in to help locate a missing teenager and she took the police to a dirt road's end. About 200 yards away was a street of houses and when they filmed to show where she had taken them the teenager was in the last house on the street closest to the end of the dirt road. She couldn't tell them any more than the dirt road thing and the police never went door to door on the street asking questions but when the teenager was found they were in that house being held against their will. The cops are the main people interviewed for these shows.

 

Another one had a psychic stating that when the victim was found it would be in concrete and she saw a foot. When they found the body it was buried in concrete except for one foot sticking out.

 

Another psychic was able to give the police enough information about the criminal that it confirmed they were on the right track with one suspect and they were eventually able to prove he did it and get a conviction.

 

It's a very interesting ability. The reason psychics can't predict SB's or other things is that their gift doesn't work that way. They only get vague images that can help, someone, like the police if the client can tie the images together.

A million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare. People win the lottery, too, but that doesn't make them anything more than a statistical anomaly.

 

If somebody's got real psychic ability, why not claim the cash??? Nobody has - that's the beauty of the prize.

[Steely Dan]

A million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare. People win the lottery, too, but that doesn't make them anything more than a statistical anomaly.

 

If somebody's got real psychic ability, why not claim the cash??? Nobody has - that's the beauty of the prize.

 

So you believe the police call someone they believe is psychic and give them the facts of the case and they come that close and it's just random? They'd have to use a lot of psychics on each case to make your point valid. These police offices keep using the same psychic or recommending them because they keep being helpful over and over. If you are that closed minded about everything then I guess there is nothing that can make you rethink your beliefs or anyone who can teach you anything.

[Gene Frenkle]

So you believe the police call someone they believe is psychic and give them the facts of the case and they come that close and it's just random? They'd have to use a lot of psychics on each case to make your point valid. These police offices keep using the same psychic or recommending them because they keep being helpful over and over. If you are that closed minded about everything then I guess there is nothing that can make you rethink your beliefs or anyone who can teach you anything.

Then why isn't one of them $1,000,000 richer? It really is as simple as that.

 

People are stupid, and that includes some police departments. There is no documented study lending credence to the existence of psychic or paranormal ability. There is no science behind it, and when you take the subjective human element out of it, you're always left with nothing. Show me any one case of supposed psychic ability, no matter how convincing and I'll show you a bunch of cold-reading, generalities and hindsight revisionism. There is no case of a psychic ever saying something like 'you will find the missing person at this exact location' and actually getting it right. It's always 'oh, this must have been what the psychic meant when they said that general statement' - after the fact. It's all a bunch of BS.

 

I'm not closed-minded, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, not just a bunch of anecdotal evidence from people who want to believe.

[Steely Dan]

Then why isn't one of them $1,000,000 richer? It really is as simple as that.

 

People are stupid, and that includes some police departments. There is no documented study lending credence to the existence of psychic or paranormal ability. There is no science behind it, and when you take the subjective human element out of it, you're always left with nothing. Show me any one case of supposed psychic ability, no matter how convincing and I'll show you a bunch of cold-reading, generalities and hindsight revisionism. There is no case of a psychic ever saying something like 'you will find the missing person at this exact location' and actually getting it right. It's always 'oh, this must have been what the psychic meant when they said that general statement' - after the fact. It's all a bunch of BS.

 

I'm not closed-minded, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, not just a bunch of anecdotal evidence from people who want to believe.

 

Tell me exactly what the challenge entails.

[Dibs]

Tell me exactly what the challenge entails.

You beat me to it......so I looked it up.

 

Quickly, he has a preliminary test & then a formal test. These are under lab conditions & are determined by the nature of the supposed ability. Apparently nobody has ever passed the preliminary test.

 

Interestingly there are criteria for entry:

"First, he/she must have a “media presence,” which means having been published, written about, or known to the media in regard to his/her claimed abilities or powers. This can be established by producing articles, videos, books, or other published material that specifically addresses the person’s abilities."

 

Second, he/she must produce at least one signed document from an academic who has witnessed the powers or abilities of the person, and will validate that these powers or abilities have been verified.

 

Only claims that can be verified by evidence under proper observing conditions will be accepted. Also, JREF will NOT accept claims of the existence of deities or demons/angels, the validity of exorcism, religious claims, cloudbusting, causing the Sun to rise or the stars to move, etc. JREF will also NOT test claims that are likely to cause injury of any sort, such as those involving the withholding of air, food or water, or the use of illicit materials, drugs, or dangerous devices.

 

Seems to me that is it certainly set up to debunk public frauds since your normal person who may have some sort of 'ability' but doesn't seek to tell the world about it cannot enter.

It doesn't explain how rigorous the testing is either. I've always imagined that if there is paranormal ability(for the most of it) then it would not be a 100% type thing. Having watched some of the 'police psychic' shows, the psychics get some things spot on....some things a bit vague(but close)....and a few things totally wrong. In a laboratory test, if the criteria are set too firm....and the person giving away the $1,000,000 is setting the criteria of the test without independent assessment....it would be virtually impossible to pass the test.

[Steely Dan]

You beat me to it......so I looked it up.

 

Quickly, he has a preliminary test & then a formal test. These are under lab conditions & are determined by the nature of the supposed ability. Apparently nobody has ever passed the preliminary test.

 

Interestingly there are criteria for entry:

"First, he/she must have a “media presence,” which means having been published, written about, or known to the media in regard to his/her claimed abilities or powers. This can be established by producing articles, videos, books, or other published material that specifically addresses the person’s abilities."

 

Second, he/she must produce at least one signed document from an academic who has witnessed the powers or abilities of the person, and will validate that these powers or abilities have been verified.

 

Only claims that can be verified by evidence under proper observing conditions will be accepted. Also, JREF will NOT accept claims of the existence of deities or demons/angels, the validity of exorcism, religious claims, cloudbusting, causing the Sun to rise or the stars to move, etc. JREF will also NOT test claims that are likely to cause injury of any sort, such as those involving the withholding of air, food or water, or the use of illicit materials, drugs, or dangerous devices.

 

Seems to me that is it certainly set up to debunk public frauds since your normal person who may have some sort of 'ability' but doesn't seek to tell the world about it cannot enter.

It doesn't explain how rigorous the testing is either. I've always imagined that if there is paranormal ability(for the most of it) then it would not be a 100% type thing. Having watched some of the 'police psychic' shows, the psychics get some things spot on....some things a bit vague(but close)....and a few things totally wrong. In a laboratory test, if the criteria are set too firm....and the person giving away the $1,000,000 is setting the criteria of the test without independent assessment....it would be virtually impossible to pass the test.

 

I had already read that part and that was going to be my point. When I say I want to know exactly what it entails I mean I want to know the exact trial they are given. If it's predict the SB score or something like that it's a silly test. I have a feeling it's set up to be something even a true psychic couldn't pass. If you've watched one of those shows on Tru Tv you have to be impressed with the good one's.

 

People who've never seen a UFO are more likely to not believe in them. People who have seen one tend to believe. I'm not talking about a light moving around in the sky or people staring at Venus and because of an optical illusion it moves around. I mean something that can't be concretely explained and seen relatively up close. I'd also say about 99% of UFO sightings are BS but it is tough to explain when thousands of people see the same thing.

 

The one I saw was a black triangular craft with a red light in the center that could hover silently and when it moved off it flew completely silently too. It's very possible it was a defense dept. black program craft but a couple of things make me think not. One is it was hovering over a residential area about 1am and why would a government craft do that? If you want to test the silent hovering ability of the craft all you have to do is do it at an abandoned airfield. Second is if it is a defense dept. craft it waaaaaayyyyy beyond everything we publicly know about now. I just don't believe a huge leap like that is possible. Craft fitting the description of what I saw have been reported since the mid eighty's.

[bartshan-83]

I had a Bills-related psychic encounter once. My mom saw a psychic a few times several years back and she insisted that I come once just so I could experience it. I really didn't know what to ask her so I just asked about my future, school, etc. But as I was leaving, I couldn't resist and I asked her if the Bills would win the Super Bowl this year. It was late August 2000 and the Bills were coming off the Music City Rimjob and a Super Bowl was not entirely out of the question. Now this lady was from southeast PA, knew nothing about football or the Bills.

 

She says: "Sorry, it's not going to happen. I'm seeing problems with their coach...they will most likely fire him."

 

I smiled politely and walked out thinking "That crazy old bat...no way does Wade lose his job coming off consecutive playoff seasons. Psychic my ass."

 

[Captain Hindsight]

I went to a psychic just the other day. I knocked on the door and when I heard "Who is it?" in response to my knock, I left.

[Dibs]

I had already read that part and that was going to be my point. When I say I want to know exactly what it entails I mean I want to know the exact trial they are given. If it's predict the SB score or something like that it's a silly test. I have a feeling it's set up to be something even a true psychic couldn't pass. If you've watched one of those shows on Tru Tv you have to be impressed with the good one's.

 

People who've never seen a UFO are more likely to not believe in them. People who have seen one tend to believe. I'm not talking about a light moving around in the sky or people staring at Venus and because of an optical illusion it moves around. I mean something that can't be concretely explained and seen relatively up close. I'd also say about 99% of UFO sightings are BS but it is tough to explain when thousands of people see the same thing.

 

The one I saw was a black triangular craft with a red light in the center that could hover silently and when it moved off it flew completely silently too. It's very possible it was a defense dept. black program craft but a couple of things make me think not. One is it was hovering over a residential area about 1am and why would a government craft do that? If you want to test the silent hovering ability of the craft all you have to do is do it at an abandoned airfield. Second is if it is a defense dept. craft it waaaaaayyyyy beyond everything we publicly know about now. I just don't believe a huge leap like that is possible. Craft fitting the description of what I saw have been reported since the mid eighty's.

A couple of mates of mine witnessed a UFO.....never seen one myself though.

 

I have however had many psychic type experiences(as I would think most people have).

 

My most interesting anecdote would have to be my psychic cat. The family cat when I was a kid was IMO psychic.....though only at one specific time. We would occasionally(once every few months) have liver for dinner. Mittens(the cat) absolutely loved liver. It was her favourite food by a long shot. She would miaow incessantly when it was being prepared since she knew that she would be getting the offcuts.

 

As time went on though, an interesting thing started to happened. She started to carry on before Mum had taken the liver out of the freezer. Mum would rarely discuss with anyone what she was thinking of for dinner on each night. She would plan things in her head(as most do) & without any perceivable difference in her vocalizations or actions Mittens would start miaowing & jumping up on the bench only on those rare days that we were going to be having liver......with the liver having not been taken out of the freezer yet.

 

I tried to set up the situation.....discussing with Mum to have liver 'next Tuesday' & not to let on in any way......and sure enough.....next Tuesday.....half an hour before Mum goes to get the liver out of the freezer.....Mittens was up on the bench carrying on again.

[Gene Frenkle]

Human beings have an intrinsic need to believe. It's an evolutionary mechanism which, ironically, causes them to reject things like evolution while accepting things like psychic ability, UFOs and many conspiracy theories. It also causes them to contort scientific fact to meet a pre-conceived desirable world view.

 

Only by looking at things scientifically and with a truly open and critical mind will the mysteries of the universe be revealed. Magical thinking and beliefs get us no closer to understanding anything.

 

You say Randi's challenge is unfair to the psychics, but their extraordinary claims should require extraordinary proofs. Also, the challenge was only recently restricted to people with a 'media presence' and have a document from an academic because so many crackpots were applying for the challenge on the off chance that they might pass the test. He was getting bombarded with ridiculous requests, so he restricted it. Be assured, however, that if a person actually had such ability, they would become known to the media rather quickly and academics from all over the world would be lining up to verify their claims.

 

If these psychics are not just hitting on some lucky guesses amid many, many misses, then what's the problem? These results should be reproducible in a controlled environment, should they not?

[Steely Dan]

Human beings have an intrinsic need to believe. It's an evolutionary mechanism which, ironically, causes them to reject things like evolution while accepting things like psychic ability, UFOs and many conspiracy theories. It also causes them to contort scientific fact to meet a pre-conceived desirable world view.

 

Only by looking at things scientifically and with a truly open and critical mind will the mysteries of the universe be revealed. Magical thinking and beliefs get us no closer to understanding anything.

 

You say Randi's challenge is unfair to the psychics, but their extraordinary claims should require extraordinary proofs. Also, the challenge was only recently restricted to people with a 'media presence' and have a document from an academic because so many crackpots were applying for the challenge on the off chance that they might pass the test. He was getting bombarded with ridiculous requests, so he restricted it. Be assured, however, that if a person actually had such ability, they would become known to the media rather quickly and academics from all over the world would be lining up to verify their claims.

 

If these psychics are not just hitting on some lucky guesses amid many, many misses, then what's the problem? These results should be reproducible in a controlled environment, should they not?

 

Ok, let me know what you think the day you see a UFO or have actually watched an episode of "Psychic Detectives". There are a lot of things we don't know about the universe. I will believe my own eyes first. I'm not making quick decisions about these things. I'm weighing the evidence rather than just taking one stand and sticking to it.

[thebug]

Human beings have an intrinsic need to believe. It's an evolutionary mechanism which, ironically, causes them to reject things like evolution while accepting things like psychic ability, UFOs and many conspiracy theories. It also causes them to contort scientific fact to meet a pre-conceived desirable world view.

 

Only by looking at things scientifically and with a truly open and critical mind will the mysteries of the universe be revealed. Magical thinking and beliefs get us no closer to understanding anything.

 

You say Randi's challenge is unfair to the psychics, but their extraordinary claims should require extraordinary proofs. Also, the challenge was only recently restricted to people with a 'media presence' and have a document from an academic because so many crackpots were applying for the challenge on the off chance that they might pass the test. He was getting bombarded with ridiculous requests, so he restricted it. Be assured, however, that if a person actually had such ability, they would become known to the media rather quickly and academics from all over the world would be lining up to verify their claims.

 

If these psychics are not just hitting on some lucky guesses amid many, many misses, then what's the problem? These results should be reproducible in a controlled environment, should they not?

 

 

I knew you were going to say that! sign me up.

[Pete]

I have seen a UFO too. Fishing in the Long Island Sound late at night, it looked like the Arizona lights and they flew in formation. I was with two buddies and there were two other boats out there. The display lasted maybe 5 minutes. After the two other boats pulled up to us and said "holy sh--, did you see that?". There are many more dimensions then four- for all we know there could be thousands. It would be incredibly arrogant and myopic to think we know all dimensions and all there is know

[Gene Frenkle]

Ok, let me know what you think the day you see a UFO or have actually watched an episode of "Psychic Detectives". There are a lot of things we don't know about the universe. I will believe my own eyes first. I'm not making quick decisions about these things. I'm weighing the evidence rather than just taking one stand and sticking to it.

Nothing would make me happier than to see a UFO or some other paranormal phenomenon in my lifetime. Apparently my threshold for what qualifies as 'proof' is higher than yours, but that doesn't mean my mind is closed to any possiblity. Once again, the greater the claim, the greater the evidence I personally require.

 

I'll never convice you and I wouldn't even presume to try. It's something you'll have to think about, study and come to on your own. Or not. Believe what you will, but know that actual science is far more interesting and wonderful than any of the paranormal things you're talking about.

[stuckincincy]

Nothing would make me happier than to see a UFO or some other paranormal phenomenon in my lifetime.

 

Follow the retatta...