Offical spam John Clayton until he aplogizes thread

[VOR]

So what if Ralph doesn't sell naming rights for (and I'm being generous here) $2M a year? What business is it of yours? How does it affect YOU as a fan? The answer is, it doesn't, so stop talking about it like it's taking money that's been taken away from you. Oh wait, it "embarrasses you." Grow a pair, children.

 

The new CBA was practically a death knell for the Bills. What gets me is that the owners were more than willing to give ~5% more to the players to "keep labor peace" despite the cries of the Wilson and Brown, but when it came to subsidizing the lower revenue teams, it was "we need to see more effort on your part." Gee Danny, Bobby, and Jerry, maybe if you hadn't taken it up the backside by the NFLPA, Ralph wouldn't have to be "whining," would he? What's even more funny is, after tapping into new revenue streams (i.e. Toronto), Ralph is getting blasted even more.

 

Enjoy the Bills while they last. The more time passes, the more I realize that Ralph WAS a fool for keeping the team in Buffalo so long in the face of a largely ungrateful bunch of fans, and that the Bills aren't long for the area once he dies.

[vegas55]

great and insightful article-still. For all of his whining and threats, the fact is that Wilson has made close to one billion dollars on this franchise. And fans complain all the time about the money athletes make!! How come there is never any of these complaints, threats to move franchise etc coming out of Green Bay?

[X. Benedict]

So what if Ralph doesn't sell naming rights for (and I'm being generous here) $2M a year? What business is it of yours? How does it affect YOU as a fan? The answer is, it doesn't, so stop talking about it like it's taking money that's been taken away from you. Oh wait, it "embarrasses you." Grow a pair, children.

 

The new CBA was practically a death knell for the Bills. What gets me is that the owners were more than willing to give ~5% more to the players to "keep labor peace" despite the cries of the Wilson and Brown, but when it came to subsidizing the lower revenue teams, it was "we need to see more effort on your part." Gee Danny, Bobby, and Jerry, maybe if you hadn't taken it up the backside by the NFLPA, Ralph wouldn't have to be "whining," would he? What's even more funny is, after tapping into new revenue streams (i.e. Toronto), Ralph is getting blasted even more.

 

Enjoy the Bills while they last. The more time passes, the more I realize that Ralph WAS a fool for keeping the team in Buffalo so long in the face of a largely ungrateful bunch of fans, and that the Bills aren't long for the area once he dies.

 

After the taxpayers have made the Buffalo Bills the largest form of pork spending for Erie county over the last 4 decades, I think gratitude is a small price to pay.

[VOR]

After the taxpayers have made the Buffalo Bills the largest form of pork spending for Erie county over the last 4 decades, I think gratitude is a small price to pay.

And this is different from other NFL cities...how? And the Bills' prices are the lowest in the NFL, so it's not like taxpayers are paying for a new $800M stadium and then being charged top-10 prices, like in Houston or Chicago.

[VOR]

How come there is never any of these complaints, threats to move franchise etc coming out of Green Bay?

[MarkAF43]

ummmmm why are we all getting upset over an article that was written 2 years ago?

this is kinda old news

 

 

 

From the website:

Updated: April 10, 2006, 12:10 PM ET

[Sisyphean Bills]

ummmmm why are we all getting upset over an article that was written 2 years ago?

this is kinda old news

 

 

 

From the website:

Updated: April 10, 2006, 12:10 PM ET

 

Apparently.

 

Just last week, I heard talking heads on the NFL network re-thinking the company spew on this issue -- that maybe the agreement was not so wonderful after all. Jerry Jones name came up as a guy who had pushed this deal hard and now even he wasn't backing it (although from the polar opposite reason as Ralph -- he doesn't want to share money from all his side deals with the rest of the NFL).

[Nanker]

Sorry, but I cannot go along w/ the angry mob on this one.

 

For all the talk of Buffalo having such a loyal fanbase, someone needs to explain to me how this very small market team (Green Bay) can continue to be successful and the Bills continue to struggle. Is the Green Bay community that much RICHer than the Buffalo area?

 

I do believe that if the Packers needed to sell the naming rights to Lambeau (haha!!), they would do so.

 

R. Rich, I think you missed the point. Green Bay is successful off the field because they've had a history of success on the field. They sell more jerseys, chotchkies, and other paraphernalia because of that on field success. The Bills had a taste of that in the 90's. Nobody - No Baaaa-Dee wears The Bills colors except the loyal and true fans. Green Bay is a community owned franchise and it will never be sold. It's a unique property. If their games were played in a sand lot that franchise would never relocate or be under threat of League pressure to move to LA. Even if The Ralph had more luxury boxes there isn't anyone that would buy them. Few would pay a seat license fee for a seasons tickets either. JMHO.

 

Maybe Ralph will sell the naming rights to Nick Tahou's for $50k and everybody would be happy.

[Nanker]

great and insightful article-still. For all of his whining and threats, the fact is that Wilson has made close to one billion dollars on this franchise. And fans complain all the time about the money athletes make!! How come there is never any of these complaints, threats to move franchise etc coming out of Green Bay?

 

Care to explain how Ralph has "made" close to a billion dollars on this franchise?

It may be worth that, but it's all on paper, and he's not selling.

So when his heirs cash it in - the guberment will be taking 45% of it in estate tax - and then some.

 

His daughters essentially will be forced to sell the club to pay the taxes (probably 300 - 400 Million Dollars - which even you might agree is a hefty tax bill) or if they decide to keep it they'll have to raise prices through the roof to pay for the debt they'll assume if they want to finance the estate tax - or they'll have to move the club to a more affluent city that has a population that isn't dirt poor and will pay more for the pleasure of parking their butts in the fabulous new municipal stadium that will be built on their behalf by local officials eager to bring the EN-EFF-EL to their town.

 

See it's simple. Ralph gets his salary till he dies, his heirs each get 200 million, the Feds get 400 million, and LA gets the team.

[Fingon]

R. Rich, I think you missed the point. Green Bay is successful off the field because they've had a history of success on the field. They sell more jerseys, chotchkies, and other paraphernalia because of that on field success. The Bills had a taste of that in the 90's. Nobody - No Baaaa-Dee wears The Bills colors except the loyal and true fans. Green Bay is a community owned franchise and it will never be sold. It's a unique property. If their games were played in a sand lot that franchise would never relocate or be under threat of League pressure to move to LA. Even if The Ralph had more luxury boxes there isn't anyone that would buy them. Few would pay a seat license fee for a seasons tickets either. JMHO.

 

Maybe Ralph will sell the naming rights to Nick Tahou's for $50k and everybody would be happy.

Merchandise sales do not go to teams, they go to the NFL and are split up.

[Steely Dan]

Sorry, but I cannot go along w/ the angry mob on this one.

 

For all the talk of Buffalo having such a loyal fanbase, someone needs to explain to me how this very small market team (Green Bay) can continue to be successful and the Bills continue to struggle. Is the Green Bay community that much RICHer than the Buffalo area?

 

I do believe that if the Packers needed to sell the naming rights to Lambeau (haha!!), they would do so.

 

Green Bay has a 30 year waiting list for season tickets. When babies are born they are put on the list by their parents. People will their season tickets to their children. They are extremely successful.

 

Packers.com

 

Lambeau Field has been sold out on a season ticket basis since 1960 and we've been accumulating names on our legendary season ticket waiting list ever since. To add a name to the list, please send a written request and include the name, address, phone number and the number of tickets requested (limit four) to the Packers Ticket Office.

 

 

Ralph is NOT senile. I can't stand it when people pick on others because they are old. I'm sure you will upgrade to a double-wide when you retire. You wish you had 1/2 of his brains at his age. How much money do you think one of the many Fortune 500 companies in Buffalo will pay for naming rights? Also, Erie County decided to name the stadium after Wilson.

 

The point is that even if he could get $.50 he would be maximizing his profits. $2 million is nothing to sneeze at. If he wants to maintain the name RW Stadium he could do that by selling the rights as i.e. Kodak field at RW Stadium.

 

 

Care to explain how Ralph has "made" close to a billion dollars on this franchise?

It may be worth that, but it's all on paper, and he's not selling.

So when his heirs cash it in - the guberment will be taking 45% of it in estate tax - and then some.

 

His daughters essentially will be forced to sell the club to pay the taxes (probably 300 - 400 Million Dollars - which even you might agree is a hefty tax bill) or if they decide to keep it they'll have to raise prices through the roof to pay for the debt they'll assume if they want to finance the estate tax - or they'll have to move the club to a more affluent city that has a population that isn't dirt poor and will pay more for the pleasure of parking their butts in the fabulous new municipal stadium that will be built on their behalf by local officials eager to bring the EN-EFF-EL to their town.

 

See it's simple. Ralph gets his salary till he dies, his heirs each get 200 million, the Feds get 400 million, and LA gets the team.

 

This team is never going anywhere except, maybe and the chances are slim, Toronto. There are other teams that are in a lot worse shape in their markets than Buffalo. Jacksonville for example. Buffalo has a large stadium and fills it very well. The fan base is rabid in this area. It's not a large market but it's a good market. If the Bills franchise moved to LA they wouldn't do as well. Every NFL team that has gone to LA ends up leaving there. The Rams and Raiders found out that LA doesn't support a team very well.

[WellDressed]

Start at 1:20 and enjoy!!!

 

Clayton vs The World

[Steely Dan]

Start at 1:20 and enjoy!!!

 

Clayton vs The World

 

[X. Benedict]

And this is different from other NFL cities...how?

Oh. I didn't know you were asking other cities to be grateful too.

[VOR]

Oh. I didn't know you were asking other cities to be grateful too.

That's because I wasn't. As I said, almost every other NFL city's taxpayers paid for their football team's new stadium AND are paying higher prices than before. It's a double-whammy. What's to be grateful over?

[Nanker]

Merchandise sales do not go to teams, they go to the NFL and are split up.

 

Only the 10% NFL licensing fee goes to NFL Properties and that money gets split equally amongst the franchises. It's amounts to over $5mm a year. I'm talking about sales from the home office and at games. The teams get a much bigger share if they own the store it's sold from.

Oh, and don't forget the fifty grand from Nick Tahou's to name it Tahou's Stadium.

[Pyrite Gal]

This team is never going anywhere except, maybe and the chances are slim, Toronto. There are other teams that are in a lot worse shape in their markets than Buffalo. Jacksonville for example. Buffalo has a large stadium and fills it very well. The fan base is rabid in this area. It's not a large market but it's a good market. If the Bills franchise moved to LA they wouldn't do as well. Every NFL team that has gone to LA ends up leaving there. The Rams and Raiders found out that LA doesn't support a team very well.

I also doubt the Bills will leave Buffalo to go to Toronto because it appears to me the NFL will make far more money (the ultimate determiner on these things) by setting up a new franchise in Toronto AND also retaining the not insubstantial 49,000+ season ticket base and the 40 years of advertising in this regional market which has made the Buffalo franchise worth well over half a billion $.

 

Folks seem to want to argue only on the likely possibility that a Bills franchise can make more $/year in a larger market while simply discounting the fact that the Bills franchise has built a considerable asset here which would simply have to be rebuilt in a new region. Obviously this rebuilding was not impossible to do with St. Louis and MO proving willing to pay a king's ransom for the Rams and Balt being will to pay a ton for the Browns.

 

However, that was then and this is now. Two of the big things which are different is that the NFL is far more a partnership these days (with the NFLPA taking the majority of the total take of this partnership each year) than it was not too long ago when it was more of a collection of individual capitalists.

 

The brake that the collaborative will put on team movement and the lack of effectiveness of an individual to drive such a movement of a team will make it far more difficult for a team to move.

 

As far as the calculus for Toronto. The seeming huge interest in seeing an NFL team in Toronto bodes quite well for the NFL being able to pull off the same trick as the lowly NHL of having two thriving franchises in Buffalo and Toronto.

 

Why on earth would the NFL approve moving the Bills to Toronto when they can make far more money having franchises in both places.

 

I doubt they will walk away from the $.

[Lori]

ummmmm why are we all getting upset over an article that was written 2 years ago?

this is kinda old news

 

 

 

From the website:

Updated: April 10, 2006, 12:10 PM ET

That's the point. When the new CBA was signed two years ago and Ralph and Mike Brown were the only ones to vote against it, he was roundly mocked and derided in the media, none more so than by the crew on ESPN Radio. Now that everyone else has discovered the deal isn't that great after all, the thread starter thinks it's time to remind some of those talking heads that they got it wrong.

 

I won't join in, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with the idea.

[Steely Dan]

I also doubt the Bills will leave Buffalo to go to Toronto because it appears to me the NFL will make far more money (the ultimate determiner on these things) by setting up a new franchise in Toronto AND also retaining the not insubstantial 49,000+ season ticket base and the 40 years of advertising in this regional market which has made the Buffalo franchise worth well over half a billion $.

 

Folks seem to want to argue only on the likely possibility that a Bills franchise can make more $/year in a larger market while simply discounting the fact that the Bills franchise has built a considerable asset here which would simply have to be rebuilt in a new region. Obviously this rebuilding was not impossible to do with St. Louis and MO proving willing to pay a king's ransom for the Rams and Balt being will to pay a ton for the Browns.

 

However, that was then and this is now. Two of the big things which are different is that the NFL is far more a partnership these days (with the NFLPA taking the majority of the total take of this partnership each year) than it was not too long ago when it was more of a collection of individual capitalists.

 

The brake that the collaborative will put on team movement and the lack of effectiveness of an individual to drive such a movement of a team will make it far more difficult for a team to move.

 

As far as the calculus for Toronto. The seeming huge interest in seeing an NFL team in Toronto bodes quite well for the NFL being able to pull off the same trick as the lowly NHL of having two thriving franchises in Buffalo and Toronto.

 

Why on earth would the NFL approve moving the Bills to Toronto when they can make far more money having franchises in both places.

 

I doubt they will walk away from the $.

 

The NFL couldn't put a franchise in Toronto without the Bills permission. Buffalo controls that territory. The only reason the Faders and 69ers franchises are so close is they were in different leagues before the merger. They would have to pay the Bills a huge fee to be allowed to be put there. I don't know what %age of the Bills fan base comes from Toronto on game days. That would be the determining factor in the Bills agreeing to such a move. IIRC, Toronto doesn't have a stadium that meets NFL requirements.

[scribo]

jclayton@espn.com

That address is not correct, and you should be summarily shot for posting it.