Bills "mortified"

[Dwight Drane]

Well since you're bringing this up, as long as Hardy didn't do anything to take him off the football field, how does this incident (or his earlier one with his girlfriend) affect you? Does it embarrass you? So what? He plays for your favorite football team and that's it. It's not like he's you or that you're condoning his behavior because he's on your favorite football team. I'm sure there were more than a few Bills players you've disliked (and had the internet been around for most of Bruce's early career...) but who you tolerated because they were good players, or even co-workers.

 

The notion that pro athletes are role models died with that Charles Barkley commercial. Or it should have. I don't care about what Hardy does off the field just as long as it doesn't take him away from the field, and as long as he produces. I don't care if my boys read that he beat-up his girlfriend or brandished a gun. If they had a problem with it, they'd come talk to me. They wouldn't start emulating that behavior because I taught them differently.

 

And I look at JP for the flip-side of this. Here is a guy who bought a house in downtown and had made efforts to clean-up the city, but people treat him like a red-headed stepchild because the Bills have been bad while he's been a starter. Why the double-standard? I think you know why.

 

You my friend have a verry common viewpoint. I do not share that viewpoint. If the Bills go into the thug-harvesting business, I will not support them. Simple as that. By taking a chance on Hardy and having this blow up in their face so soon with the crowd that thinks a bit like I do, then the Bills are now on probation themselves. I am interested to see where they go from here.

 

I'm not sure where you are going with JP. I have no problem with JP as a person. He's a little snarky and emotional, but he didn't beat anyone or pull a weapon out on his dad. He just doesn't have a high football IQ. If Trent Edwards was a meth-dealing biker, then I'd rather have JP in there. Edwards seems like the kind of guy that would pay for your coffee at Starbucks just because you are rifling through your bag to find some change and holding up the line. Edwards is also much more under control and makes better decisions than JP on the field...and probably off as well.

 

The Hargrove situation was a little similar to Hardy, but Hargrove is a little crazy. He could saddle that craziness to his advantage on Sunday and was good spirited many times, but he also lost it off the field a few times. I can be a little more forgiving when a guy has a tift in public, but once again Hargrove isn't pistol whipping family and children. I think Hargrove had enough smarts to come out in his playful personality. Hardy seems like dead wood and without a clue.

[obie_wan]

You my friend have a verry common viewpoint. I do not share that viewpoint. If the Bills go into the thug-harvesting business, I will not support them. Simple as that. By taking a chance on Hardy and having this blow up in their face so soon with the crowd that thinks a bit like I do, then the Bills are now on probation themselves. I am interested to see where they go from here.

 

I'm not sure where you are going with JP. I have no problem with JP as a person. He's a little snarky and emotional, but he didn't beat anyone or pull a weapon out on his dad. He just doesn't have a high football IQ. If Trent Edwards was a meth-dealing biker, then I'd rather have JP in there. Edwards seems like the kind of guy that would pay for your coffee at Starbucks just because you are rifling through your bag to find some change and holding up the line. Edwards is also much more under control and makes better decisions than JP on the field...and probably off as well.

 

The Hargrove situation was a little similar to Hardy, but Hargrove is a little crazy. He could saddle that craziness to his advantage on Sunday and was good spirited many times, but he also lost it off the field a few times. I can be a little more forgiving when a guy has a tift in public, but once again Hargrove isn't pistol whipping family and children. I think Hargrove had enough smarts to come out in his playful personality. Hardy seems like dead wood and without a clue.

 

but he's tall.

[Dwight Drane]

Prove it. Pick a side, that what he did was justified or unjustified, and support that position with well-established facts about the case.

 

I never saw Hitler fire up an oven.

 

I went through this little game with posters on the Sabres board last year at this time. I couldn't prove that Darcy wasn't going to sign anyone, and that Quinn was lying through his teeth, and that the Sabres had no heart and were going to tank until it actually happened. Your line was the line that kept coming up. "Prove it with facts".

 

The facts are....watch and wait. I tend to read the actions of people and have a good idea of what they may do next, especially if I am familiar with the subject at hand. In reality, Quinn may be more evil than Hardy, but Hardy has little brains, questionable work ethic, an emotional disorder, and is quick to lay the blame somewhere else. Doesn't sound good for on or off the football field, and I would be interested to know who was the main guy in the Bills front office pushing for Hardy. My guess is that it was Modrak, since we drafted like this with Donahoe. Marv seemed to tame the crew down the last few years.

 

All we can do now is wait and see. Much like your views on religion or world culture, the proof comes over time.

[Chilly]

I never saw Hitler fire up an oven.

 

Good job satisfying Godwin's law, but that idea isn't anywhere at all relevant to my particular point, since there is plenty of well-established evidence that he did. No need for you to have seen it.

 

I went through this little game with posters on the Sabres board last year at this time. I couldn't prove that Darcy wasn't going to sign anyone, and that Quinn was lying through his teeth, and that the Sabres had no heart and were going to tank until it actually happened. Your line was the line that kept coming up. "Prove it with facts".

 

At least you admit you have nothing to backup any of your positions.

 

The facts are....watch and wait. I tend to read the actions of people and have a good idea of what they may do next, especially if I am familiar with the subject at hand. In reality, Quinn may be more evil than Hardy, but Hardy has little brains, questionable work ethic, an emotional disorder, and is quick to lay the blame somewhere else. Doesn't sound good for on or off the football field,

 

When was the last time you and Hardy went out on a date? Did you get lucky?

[Dwight Drane]

Good job satisfying Godwin's law, but that idea isn't anywhere at all relevant to my particular point, since there is plenty of well-established evidence that he did. No need for you to have seen it.

 

 

 

At least you admit you have nothing to backup any of your positions.

 

 

 

When was the last time you and Hardy went out on a date? Did you get lucky?

 

I know you like to roll around in textbooks, so you may want to look at the works of Dr Freud and then ask yourself why you chose the picture that you did for your avatar.

[Kelly the Dog]

Alright....I'll put up $100 and you put up $300....just like I said in the post. I want my money if Hardy is arrested or brought into custody by the police for any reason, or at the scene of a shooting by the end of January 2009. The reason I am hesitant to bet is that any chickensh!t that doesn't admit Hardy is at more of a risk to get in trouble than someone in the general population is probably the type of weasel that will not pay up on a bet.

 

Now how do you want to pay?

 

Considering how Hardy is just misunderstood, and he is no real risk.....and just 2 % of the population is arrested in any given year, then technically you can say I should be given up to 80-1 odds considering the timeframe. That is how confident I am that we are dealing with a problem. I am letting you off on 3-1 odds.

 

Now, hopefully you will be at the home opening tailgate, because I have a funny feeling I will be able to collect by then.

 

I hate to "root" for somebody's demise, but since I have zero control over this champion of society's actions, I shouldn't worry too much.

Cool. Let's just say "any" shooting in Buffalo or Indiana, whether he is within 1000 miles of it or not. Apparently what actually happens, or whether he had anything whatsoever to do with it matters not. If there is a shooting outside a bar down the block from him, Hardy is a thug and just showed bad judgment.

[Dwight Drane]

Cool. Let's just say "any" shooting in Buffalo or Indiana, whether he is within 1000 miles of it or not. Apparently what actually happens, or whether he had anything whatsoever to do with it matters not. If there is a shooting outside a bar down the block from him, Hardy is a thug and just showed bad judgment.

 

That is the problem Kelly....I have been trying to argue for common sense to be used from the start in this entire subject. It isn't worth arguing all the tickey tack things, That is what some here are doing. "Oh...duh...the Police didn't arrest him so Hardy didn't do anything wrong."

 

It's only cheating if you get caught, right!

 

Whatever....I believe I already made a bet for charity with someone else, so don't worry about it. I'm sure we will have a few more times to revisit this topic in the near future.

[VOR]

I've no idea what you're jabbering about.

You don't say.

Is "being lazy is the same thing as beating women and drawing firearms" your briliant follow up to "pulling a gun isn't violent"?

You're on fire......

When you know me, then you can talk about what I would or wouldn't have said. Simple generalizations (your brilliant "if this were a Dolphins or Patriots player..." comment) will get you burned.

[Chilly]

I know you like to roll around in textbooks, so you may want to look at the works of Dr Freud and then ask yourself why you chose the picture that you did for your avatar.

 

Nice job refuting my points in that last post, although it is amusing you chose to refer to someone whose theories have been largely wrong.

[Ramius]

That is the problem Kelly....I have been trying to argue for common sense to be used from the start in this entire subject. It isn't worth arguing all the tickey tack things, That is what some here are doing. "Oh...duh...the Police didn't arrest him so Hardy didn't do anything wrong."

 

It's only cheating if you get caught, right!

 

Whatever....I believe I already made a bet for charity with someone else, so don't worry about it. I'm sure we will have a few more times to revisit this topic in the near future.

 

you are trying to argue common sense by predicting that Hardy will most likely be involved in multiple crimes, shootings, arrests, suspensions, and suggesting we trade him at first chance?

[Dwight Drane]

you are trying to argue common sense by predicting that Hardy will most likely be involved in multiple crimes, shootings, arrests, suspensions, and suggesting we trade him at first chance?

 

No, I am trying to argue common sense BECAUSE HARDY HAS ALREADY BEEN INVOLVED IN MULTIPLE CRIMES, ARRESTS AND SUSPENSIONS.

 

Really....I'm all for a little joking around, and I'm all for being a fan and loyalty, and I shouldn't have taken up this cause because in reality, Hardy is just another dude getting paid to run, jump and skip. Somehow I dove into another level of the internet...the one where you have to take a shower afterwards. I showed bad judgement by continuing to post in this subject, and I'm sure since everyone here is so forgiving, they will understand it was all a misunderstanding on my part. I should have known better than to imploy logic on an internet message board, no matter the team it involved.

 

I send my sincere appology to James Hardy for confirming his 85 IQ and personality disorder, and I hope he catches 90 passes and 15 TDs this year.

[VOR]

No, I am trying to argue common sense BECAUSE HARDY HAS ALREADY BEEN INVOLVED IN MULTIPLE CRIMES, ARRESTS AND SUSPENSIONS.

I have to say that you've really put yourself out there, DD. Now all we have to do is wait for Hardy to screw-up again. Let the countdown (countup?) commence!

[Ramius]

No, I am trying to argue common sense BECAUSE HARDY HAS ALREADY BEEN INVOLVED IN MULTIPLE CRIMES, ARRESTS AND SUSPENSIONS.

 

Really....I'm all for a little joking around, and I'm all for being a fan and loyalty, and I shouldn't have taken up this cause because in reality, Hardy is just another dude getting paid to run, jump and skip. Somehow I dove into another level of the internet...the one where you have to take a shower afterwards. I showed bad judgement by continuing to post in this subject, and I'm sure since everyone here is so forgiving, they will understand it was all a misunderstanding on my part. I should have known better than to imploy logic on an internet message board, no matter the team it involved.

 

I send my sincere appology to James Hardy for confirming his 85 IQ and personality disorder, and I hope he catches 90 passes and 15 TDs this year.

 

multiple arrests? i only count 1 arrest. there was some incident with 0 facts that a lot of people including your self jumped to conclusions, where no charges were pressed.

 

As for you, perhaps we should stop you from working with horses. after all, you have shown a violent history in regards to jockeys with a strong propensity for violence, and you are a prime candidate to shoot the next jockey that crosses you, given your past history.

[Kelly the Dog]

That is the problem Kelly....I have been trying to argue for common sense to be used from the start in this entire subject. It isn't worth arguing all the tickey tack things, That is what some here are doing. "Oh...duh...the Police didn't arrest him so Hardy didn't do anything wrong."

 

It's only cheating if you get caught, right!

 

Whatever....I believe I already made a bet for charity with someone else, so don't worry about it. I'm sure we will have a few more times to revisit this topic in the near future.

Common sense is to not automatically assume that because Hardy once grabbed his girlfriend by the neck, the girl who claims she was the one who caused it, and the girl he has been with since they were 13 (well before he was a famous football star) -- that he is automatically going to go off and attack someone or be put in jail. The only other things we know he did were buy a keg of beer (his school suspension) and take out his (legal) gun from his pocket. That's it. He's not even EVER been ACCUSED by ANYONE of POINTING the damn thing. That's the total extent of his problems in five years that we know of. No one close to him thinks he has problems. The cops don't think so. His family doesn't think so. The Bills, a rather conservative team don't think so.

 

You and a few others seem to be going off the handle more than he did.

 

I am not just a blind homer. If he smacked around his girlfriend I think he should be put in jail a few days, which is what happened even though she says she started it, and his shirt was ripped. If he did ANYTHING WHATSOVER to the baby you know as well as anyone police and child services wouldn't let him anywhere near the kid.

 

He may or may not have serious anger issues. He may or may not get in all kinds of legal trouble in the future. He may or may not be involved in a shooting somewhere down the line. I have no idea. I would not be shocked. If he does, I doubt I want him on the team. My problem with you and a few others is that from precious little real information, you automatically assume the guy is a thug and that he will just go off his rocker. You're basically willing to bet $100 he shoots someone within 9 months. That's just plain crazy in my book.

[Dwight Drane]

multiple arrests? i only count 1 arrest. there was some incident with 0 facts that a lot of people including your self jumped to conclusions, where no charges were pressed.

 

As for you, perhaps we should stop you from working with horses. after all, you have shown a violent history in regards to jockeys with a strong propensity for violence, and you are a prime candidate to shoot the next jockey that crosses you, given your past history.

 

Damn F'n Skippy on that one.

 

You abuse my animal in front of me, you're done riding for me....and if you caused my horse any physical harm, you better run.

 

Sort of like if you beat women and children, I'm not as apt to believe your story next time out.

[VOR]

Damn F'n Skippy on that one.

 

You abuse my animal in front of me, you're done riding for me....and if you caused my horse any physical harm, you better run.

 

Sort of like if you beat women and children, I'm not as apt to believe your story next time out.

So wait, we know about Hardy's past. We know about the father's truly troubled past. What about the 73-year old "witness?" Maybe she was drunk when she saw it all? Maybe she is a habitual liar? Maybe she's half (or completely) blind? Why the BOTD for her and the father, but not Hardy?

[Dwight Drane]

Common sense is to not automatically assume that because Hardy once grabbed his girlfriend by the neck, the girl who claims she was the one who caused it, and the girl he has been with since they were 13 (well before he was a famous football star) -- that he is automatically going to go off and attack someone or be put in jail. The only other things we know he did were buy a keg of beer (his school suspension) and take out his (legal) gun from his pocket. That's it. He's not even EVER been ACCUSED by ANYONE of POINTING the damn thing. That's the total extent of his problems in five years that we know of. No one close to him thinks he has problems. The cops don't think so. His family doesn't think so. The Bills, a rather conservative team don't think so.

 

You and a few others seem to be going off the handle more than he did.

 

I am not just a blind homer. If he smacked around his girlfriend I think he should be put in jail a few days, which is what happened even though she says she started it, and his shirt was ripped. If he did ANYTHING WHATSOVER to the baby you know as well as anyone police and child services wouldn't let him anywhere near the kid.

 

He may or may not have serious anger issues. He may or may not get in all kinds of legal trouble in the future. He may or may not be involved in a shooting somewhere down the line. I have no idea. I would not be shocked. If he does, I doubt I want him on the team. My problem with you and a few others is that from precious little real information, you automatically assume the guy is a thug and that he will just go off his rocker. You're basically willing to bet $100 he shoots someone within 9 months. That's just plain crazy in my book.

 

I understand with that last paragraph. I am the furthest thing from running around with my hair on fire. I'm not saying the guy is going to shoot anyone either, but when there is a cloud of trouble that overhangs someone....it doesn't pass easily. That is just School of Hard Knox 101. Go with your gut, use your head, and don't forget your heart when needed. I just think that some here are using their heart too much and not their head...and some are just the full of BS type of people I would lump into the group I try not having anything to do with.

 

Now you are pretty decent about things and I hear where you are coming from. My "strong opinion" probably triggers some others' BS signals as well, and thus a conflict ensues. Once I understand you aren't just blindly supporting a Bill, and you understand that I don't think Rap lyrics are the devil and I homeschool my children in a cave in Idaho...then all is well. My original comment was a figure of speech, but you had a right to call me on it, thus I would have bet. In reality the odds are better that he doesn't get arrested or shoot someone.

 

And as a side note...I think you overestimate the role of Child Protective Services. That's a story for another day.

[Dwight Drane]

So wait, we know about Hardy's past. We know about the father's truly troubled past. What about the 73-year old "witness?" Maybe she was drunk when she saw it all? Maybe she is a habitual liar? Maybe she's half (or completely) blind? Why the BOTD for her and the father, but not Hardy?

 

Valid point.

 

Lesson that I would hope others would learn out of this. "Don't be a lying sack and a thug, because some people may still have some standards and not want to hear the excuses next time."

[Steely Dan]

I know that was what his dad said, that's why I pulled up the article from a year ago when James III said it was pretty much in the past and he asks him for advice now and tries to show how good he can be. The kid might have a right to get angry, but the gun is BS. This type of behavior that is being sold to the public as a "misunderstanding", is the type of stuff alcoholics and people with mental illness not under control pull.

 

Now how fast is the Hardy lovefest going to turn on him when the Bills lowball him on his contract and the guy holds out? If it was me, I'd be on the phone trying to get a 3rd next year for the guy and then wait for training camp cuts to pick up a red zone receiver. That would be admitting a mistake, but I liken it to buying a $10 stock that could go to $40, but 3 weeks later it is at $5 and there are rumors about shady accounting. If I don't have 95% faith in that company....I'm selling.

 

I agree it's something that really bothers me but I'm willing to give him some more time and I hope he proves me wrong.

 

 

You guys take homerism to a new level.

 

With his history of unstable, if not violent reactions to stressful situations, it is only a matter of time before that gun he is waving around, goes off and wounds or kills innocent bystanders.

 

But as long as he is a Bill, we should turn a blind eye to this behavior and create endless excuses.

 

I do think that if this was an opponents player we'd be all over it.

 

 

At least I go out on a limb and open myself up to get shredded if I am wrong. "Oh Boo Hoo....Poor James didn't get daddy love!"

 

We might as well be the Toronto Bills, because the liberal excuse making fanbase sure as hell acts like they're from Toronto as it is.

 

3 Weeks. This guy is on pace for 160 "situational misunderstandings" in his NFL career. As a fan my Spidey Senses weren't confortable with drafting him in the first place, and now I have to look the other way already. Pro sports as a whole has gone done the crapper as it is the last decade, and I would like to hang on to the last little thread of distraction and excitement that the NFL brings me. If we are going to sell our souls for production, then I am going to lose interest in a hurry.

 

I'm throwing the Hammer down on this one because you have a guy assaulting 3 generations of his family. Hargrove got into a fight at a bar. Roscoe had an OE and took a spin. Hardy attacked his common-law wife as she was holding his baby son, then 18 months later pulls a gun on his father. Not to mention the 2 games he was suspended for "unkown reasons" at Indiana. At this time last year, we heard how much Lynch loved his mother and was scouting out bingo halls for her in Buffalo to go along with a house. That's a positive first step.

 

By the way...how's Joe Dorenbos doing these days? If we had the patience with him that we seem to have with Hardy, Joe has a right to set off a suitcase nuke in the middle of Ralph Wilson Stadium.....and we would all deserve it.

 

Dude, don't play it down like that. It's real easy for someone coming from a much stronger home life to play this down. If the kid didn't have issues I'd be surprised. The question is can he deal with them maturely. This gives me a cause for concern but I'm not lighting the torches and gathering the crowd yet. It's quite possible Jauron and the rest of the guys in the lockerroom will be exactly what he needs. If something happens during the season I will look at this again.

 

Living in Miami I would get all kinds of grief on how FSU ran the show, and on top of that how the police are along for the ride.

 

In all honesty, there is a bunch of stuff these guys do that never makes it to the public because the cops in every city give them a break. In Buffalo alone, there were tons of stories. The best one that I told before was a former Bill in the 80's was brought down to headquarters for being drunk and disorderly and resisting arrest. The guy was yelling at the cops and being a real grouch. Well, the right guy was called in to uncuff the player and he ended up walking out with no mark. As he was going outside, he told the person that showed up to wait a minute, and right in front of 4 other cops, proceeded to urinate all over the hood of a squad car.

 

The gentleman was escorted back into headquarters for a few more hours.

 

Ever since these kids put on a football helmet and showed enormous talent they've been coddled by society. The rules have always been different for them. There was one Washington Redskin who graduated college and couldn't read!!

 

 

 

If this guy was a phin or a Patriot*, y'all would be excoriating him.

 

Very true.

 

 

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/images..._nile_river.jpg

 

It's not just this, though.

 

 

 

 

That is why I am so pumped about this thing. If it was simple denial that is one thing, but I am having a tough time understanding if some here believe their own BS...or are just sticking to their guns in a pure homerism defense. Either way, it is alarming and takes a little fun out football when I see some of the names defending the guy in this thread.

 

The only people I expect to coddle Hardy at this point are Molson2002, and possibly any other schoolgirl going for a liberal arts education. To dismiss Hardy's actions by blaming it on his childhood is an insult to about 50,000,000 other Americans who have lived through similar circumstances yet somehow find a way not to beat multiple members of their family. Maybe when Hardy kicks a puppy over Niagara Falls we'll get a little common sense here.

 

Once again, it's a very difficult situation he obviously needs help and I hope he gets it. It irritates me that Limas Sweed was on the board and the Bills passed on him for Hardy. Especially when early word on Sweed is he looks impressive.

 

 

Well since you're bringing this up, as long as Hardy didn't do anything to take him off the football field, how does this incident (or his earlier one with his girlfriend) affect you? Does it embarrass you? So what? He plays for your favorite football team and that's it. It's not like he's you or that you're condoning his behavior because he's on your favorite football team. I'm sure there were more than a few Bills players you've disliked (and had the internet been around for most of Bruce's early career...) but who you tolerated because they were good players, or even co-workers.

 

The notion that pro athletes are role models died with that Charles Barkley commercial. Or it should have. I don't care about what Hardy does off the field just as long as it doesn't take him away from the field, and as long as he produces. I don't care if my boys read that he beat-up his girlfriend or brandished a gun. If they had a problem with it, they'd come talk to me. They wouldn't start emulating that behavior because I taught them differently.

 

And I look at JP for the flip-side of this. Here is a guy who bought a house in downtown and had made efforts to clean-up the city, but people treat him like a red-headed stepchild because the Bills have been bad while he's been a starter. Why the double-standard? I think you know why.

 

I like the Bills because they have, for the most part, a history of rating character highly. I find it harder to root for guys I don't respect. I'm willing to overlook Parrish's DUI but if too many things happen with too many guys I probably wouldn't be a football fan much anymore. I got tired of it in the NBA and haven't watched an NBA game in 10 years.

 

 

I'm not going to argue it at all. But lets continue to pretend that Tallahassee is the only big time college football town where this happens. As for miami, at least FSU didnt need to actually institute a rule prohibiting players from bringing guns into the locker room.

 

As I said above the rules for them are a lot different than the rules for anyone else in society.

 

 

The entire problem with your posts is that you are overracting and assuming in response to a relatively non-issue. You are treating Hardy as if he should be in a straight jacket somewhere, with knowing 0 facts about what went on and what hardy's been through. Yes, he had one issue with his girlfriend. But he's also still with her and has been with her for 8 years. It would seem like they have a stable relationship. Its not like he goes around willis-style nailing anything that walks and then beating her ass.

 

As for trading him/cutting him, thank God you are nowhere near the front office of the Bills.

 

I agree give him more time. Especially time in the lockerroom with the other guys.

[Ramius]

Damn F'n Skippy on that one.

 

You abuse my animal in front of me, you're done riding for me....and if you caused my horse any physical harm, you better run.

 

Sort of like if you beat women and children, I'm not as apt to believe your story next time out.

 

got it. So the next time any jockey gets hurt, we should automatically suspect you and claim you need to be arrested and thrown in jail. because you've shown a violent past and a propensity for hurting others. in fact, i think you should be arrested now, since you are likely to hurt someone in your employ in the next few months.