Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 But none of us were there in NE so we don't have any proof those videos were ever used by BB to cheat! Who made any of us judges in this? You can't judge him until you have facts, or were there when he did it. We weren't there when Nicole Simpson died either. OJ must be innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Does the NFL honestly think that fans will buy the argument, that these tapes were NOT used during games? They don't care. Whether the NFL decides to show integrity (for once) or not, fans are going to throw another gazillion dollars at them this year. Even if every fan in the league outside of New England is pissed right now, most will forget the whole thing when they unveil 50-100 new commercials about how awesome football is and how watching football on Sunday is the most important thing in the entire universe. Enjoy the new season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Shoot dude, the NFL only exists because of fan passion, it's part of the brand. we judge coaching calls, draft choices, play selections, free agents, cheerleaders, ownership issues----that IS the nfl unless you're fortunate enough to pull for the SB winning team. i think we have a right to judge them. we have a right to jump to conclusions. belichick broke the rules, repeatedly, and even did so after the rule was 'clarified' while playing a coach who one can only assume knew he broke the rules to begin with. on top of that, the original tapes were inconceivably destroyed, and apparently rg didn't believe BB was forthright on his explanation of the "misunderstanding of the rules". so, we're left with a guy who broke rules, telling a story the lead investigator doesn't totally believe, and only a near decade of wrongdoing, and we're told that the tapes were made for apparently no reason and provided no competitive advantage. absurd. ridiculous. and, call me a conspiracy theorist, but why would i believe anything the guy said when he's already proven a liar? i gotta be honest, i don't like being treated like a fool. i could tape the first quarter of the bills game, drive it to my office three miles away, and have it up and running to the parts i wanted to see before the second quarter started for analysis. could a multi-million dollar organization have a better system than that? a good and well-coached team decided to try and gain additional competitive advantage by breaking the rules and subsequently misrepresenting what happened. how much that helped them is anyones guess, but we do know with certainty they tried to gain advantage when they should not have. in the end, absent anything else, the fine and draft choice loss is what it is, and the penalty obviously will stick. i can live with that, because like the 1990 Bills will always be remembered for their losses at crunch time, this lying sack of crap will always be remembered for cheating at crunch time. 20 years from now...."oh yeah, the cheaters?". the flip side is...$750k and a first round draft choice was a small price to pay for championships in dispute. I agree completely with that. Well said. I'd add that even if it took them a full half hour to do that there would still be approx. 75 minutes left in the game. Three hour game - half hour divided by two = 75 minutes. It would be very interesting to go back and look at several important games and see how much better the Pets* played in the third and fourth quarters vs. the first half. Inside the NFL on ESPN is FINALLY saying the Pats* gained a huge advantage by cheating. They also are not buying that the tapes weren't used during the games they were taped. A good example is the Pittsburg game - when did they expect to see them again- It was the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, they weren't going to play them in the Super Bowl. What more needs to be said. It's obvious that they were using it in game! We weren't there when Nicole Simpson died either. OJ must be innocent. I wonder if Walsh has that tape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I agree completely with that. Well said. I'd add that even if it took them a full half hour to do that there would still be approx. 75 minutes left in the game. Three hour game - half hour divided by two = 75 minutes. It would be very interesting to go back and look at several important games and see how much better the Pets* played in the third and fourth quarters vs. the first half. I heard Rod Woodson talking about it yesterday, suggesting it could not have helped much. I'll take him at his word that he believes it, but the whole argument that a professional sports team, with all it's moving parts, all it's people, and all it's money would be the equivalent of some goober in his darkened bedroom fumbling with the remote, trying to fast forward to the part where the hot exchange student gets naked with the girlie mag in American Pie is laughable. Interestingly, one of the tapes he isolated shows Jerry Gray signaling with 4 fingers for 4 guys in coverage, and RW commented that with that basic a signal, it's really JG's fault for not being more creative. While that's a seperate argument, it struck me as pretty (painful) and humorous. I have visions of Steve Fairchild on tape somewhere signalling: "eLL-TAY Oscoe-Ray to o-Go EEp-DAY!" or "ELLIS ISLAND! ELLIS ISLAND" What more needs to be said. It's obvious that they were using it in game! I hadn't thought of that at all. I can use that today when my friend emails me telling me it was all much ado about nothing, at the same time emailing me on the james hardy incident and suggesting i'm hypocritical if i don't call for his immediate release from the team. His view is the tape couldn't have helped, that BB was over-aggressive in game prep, etc. I definitely can get some mileage out of this angle. God Bless you, one and all. Now, where is my tape of American Pie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Are you assuming he is guilty based off of what the media is reporting? And not giving him the benfit of the doubt since you were not there first hand and don't have any credible evidence to base your decision on? You mean except that the NFL has ruled that the Patriots did break the rules? Welcome to the difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 You mean except that the NFL has ruled that the Patriots did break the rules? Welcome to the difference... Only that he was taping opposing teams signals, which they later had to clarify in the rules But now people have been assuming that he has done this his entire career, possible against Buffalo in the SB, and against the Rams. The NFL never penalized him for breaking the rules in those games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Only that he was taping opposing teams signals, which they later had to clarify in the rules But now people have been assuming that he has done this his entire career, possible against Buffalo in the SB, and against the Rams. The NFL never penalized him for breaking the rules in those games Please don't attempt to morph this thread into something else. What anyone wants to assume Bellyache has done his ENTIRE career is a different matter. We are talking about the taping incidents only. We are talking about how it strains credibility to listen to Goodall relate Walsh's point about being told, in NO uncertain terms, that the Patriots wanted him to keep quite about his taping activities while at the same time believing that Ballyache simply MISINTERPRETED the rules. At the very LEAST Belichik has a MAJOR credibility issue. As in he's a LIAR. If you wish to continue to defend him that's your choice. But, in light of the evidence of Goodall's testimony yesterday, you have a WEAK case. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Please don't attempt to morph this thread into something else. What anyone wants to assume Bellyache has done his ENTIRE career is a different matter. We are talking about the taping incidents only. We are talking about how it strains credibility to listen to Goodall relate Walsh's point about being told, in NO uncertain terms, that the Patriots wanted him to keep quite about his taping activities while at the same time believing that Ballyache simply MISINTERPRETED the rules. At the very LEAST Belichik has a MAJOR credibility issue. As in he's a LIAR. If you wish to continue to defend him that's your choice. But, in light of the evidence of Goodall's testimony yesterday, you have a WEAK case. GO BILLS!!! what he said! i've never complained about the Giants loss. i waited until the commish spoke on the issue before commenting harshly on BB and the pats. i'm realistic about what/if/how much the taping would help them, other than the somewhat obvious fact to me that the argument that this coach credited with 'genius' and 'mastermind' status ordered taping for nothing more than his home movie collection is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Well, as long as you guys aren't assuming anything and not passing judgement on him til he is proven guilty of it..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Well, as long as you guys aren't assuming anything and not passing judgement on him til he is proven guilty of it..................... WTF? Not passing judgement til he is proven guilty? What the fug more proof do you need than a collection of freaking tapes, a guy who was told that he needed to be carefull not to get caught, the largest individual fine in NFL history, the obvious coverup by the league, destruction of evidence... Seriously, guy, Belicheat has been cheating admittedly since 2000. It doesn't matter what he calls it. His actions over the past eight seasons are the very definition of cheating. What the fug is your deal? How much more proof do you need? If this was a court of law he'd be guilty ten times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Well, as long as you guys aren't assuming anything and not passing judgement on him til he is proven guilty of it..................... your faith in humanity and willingness to see it all through is refreshing. i, on the other hand, have enough hard and factual evidence that if i could find a torch and pitchfork, i'd hunt down the monster frankencheck and do what small-minded people like me do. he's already guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Well, as long as you guys aren't assuming anything and not passing judgement on him til he is proven guilty of it..................... Did you get a bad batch of poutine? you've gone off the deep end recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Well, as long as you guys aren't assuming anything and not passing judgement on him til he is proven guilty of it..................... I didn't know you were a Pats* fan, but these posts are WEAK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Well, as long as you guys aren't assuming anything and not passing judgement on him til he is proven guilty of it..................... Can't you people see that this guy is simply fanning the fire? Stop being so predictable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Can't you people see that this guy is simply fanning the fire? Stop being so predictable! Actually, i'm just trying to understand how in one case, you can't even say that a guy could use some anger management counsiling and sweep everything under the rug, after an article in the paper comes out saying he had an arguement with his father, and "allegedly" pulled out a gun (and how he is innocent until proven guilty, and anything saying he did it is an assumption since no one was there), yet BB should be fired/suspended/banned and SB wins should be reveresed because "allegedly" a former employee had video of them filming another teams walk through and had all this footage that would show he is a cheater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 They don't care. Whether the NFL decides to show integrity (for once) or not, fans are going to throw another gazillion dollars at them this year. Even if every fan in the league outside of New England is pissed right now, most will forget the whole thing when they unveil 50-100 new commercials about how awesome football is and how watching football on Sunday is the most important thing in the entire universe. Enjoy the new season. Bingo! We have a winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Actually, i'm just trying to understand how in one case, you can't even say that a guy could use some anger management counsiling and sweep everything under the rug, after an article in the paper comes out saying he had an arguement with his father, and "allegedly" pulled out a gun (and how he is innocent until proven guilty, and anything saying he did it is an assumption since no one was there), yet BB should be fired/suspended/banned and SB wins should be reveresed because "allegedly" a former employee had video of them filming another teams walk through and had all this footage that would show he is a cheater. Sometimes "white collar" crime is worse... In this (hold your breath) case... Belicheck is the "real" crime... Not downplaying the Hardy thing... But so what, two people could have been dead... Big whipty do. Flame away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Actually, i'm just trying to understand how in one case, you can't even say that a guy could use some anger management counsiling and sweep everything under the rug, after an article in the paper comes out saying he had an arguement with his father, and "allegedly" pulled out a gun (and how he is innocent until proven guilty, and anything saying he did it is an assumption since no one was there), yet BB should be fired/suspended/banned and SB wins should be reveresed because "allegedly" a former employee had video of them filming another teams walk through and had all this footage that would show he is a cheater. If you want to understand try this: 1. Reach between your legs 2. firmly grasp your neck 3. give a hard tug this should successfully extract your head from your ass, and then you might be able to understand the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 WTF? Not passing judgement til he is proven guilty? What the fug more proof do you need than a collection of freaking tapes, a guy who was told that he needed to be carefull not to get caught, the largest individual fine in NFL history, the obvious coverup by the league, destruction of evidence... Seriously, guy, Belicheat has been cheating admittedly since 2000. It doesn't matter what he calls it. His actions over the past eight seasons are the very definition of cheating. What the fug is your deal? How much more proof do you need? If this was a court of law he'd be guilty ten times over. Something tells me Apuz wouldn't rush to judgment if they caught Bill Belichick covered in blood holding an ax standing over a dozen decapitated bodies. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Something tells me Apuz wouldn't rush to judgment if they caught Bill Belichick covered in blood holding an ax standing over a dozen decapitated bodies. PTR agreed. his filleting of Hardy combined with his blowing belicheat*, combined with his views that the bills should move to toronto makes me begin to think he's really a closet pats* fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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