scribo Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 An interesting prosepect posed by the WSJ I for one wouldn't think doing so is right, but I agree 100 percent that the military needs to do something drastic to recognize that PTSD is a real injury and debunk the myths and most importantly, tearing away the stigmas keeping Marines and soldiers from seeking help. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I think the people who brought the Army the "Black Beret for Espirit De Corps" have now invaded the medal process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 An interesting prosepect posed by the WSJ I for one wouldn't think doing so is right, but I agree 100 percent that the military needs to do something drastic to recognize that PTSD is a real injury and debunk the myths and most importantly, tearing away the stigmas keeping Marines and soldiers from seeking help. What do you think? I think they should set up a better system for getting them help. I've never served so quite frankly I'm not qualified to comment, but a purple heart doesn't sound right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I think the people who brought the Army the "Black Beret for Espirit De Corps" have now invaded the medal process. It's our feel good culture. Similar to giving kids trophey's just for playing soccer. Rather than actually winning the damn things at the end of the season, by being the best team. Welcome to the US Military where we try our best to be the Special Olympics of World military. Everyone gets a participation medal of Being Wounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 It's our feel good culture. Similar to giving kids trophey's just for playing soccer. Rather than actually winning the damn things at the end of the season, by being the best team. Welcome to the US Military where we try our best to be the Special Olympics of World military. Everyone gets a participation medal of Being Wounded. So you think they'll go with a PTSD medal for everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 So you think they'll go with a PTSD medal for everyone? Why not? I am stressed because someone hit my porch in Iraq with a morter. I'm stressed because they sent me to a combat zone. I'm stressed because I had to take a sh-- in a latrene. I am stressed becaused I watched my brother pull a gun on my dad at the Rich family picnic over someone putting the potato salad on the car hood. Like Darin said, the Army people were all complaining because special forces all had berets so they wanted to feel special too and were all awarde these very gay looking black berets that look like crap on the overweight HQ poggy bait eating REMF's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I think they should set up a better system for getting them help. I've never served so quite frankly I'm not qualified to comment, but a purple heart doesn't sound right. My brother has diagnosed PTSD after 3 tours in Afghanistan. I'm not on board with giving a Purple Heart. God knows that it's a serious issue, but the PH was created for soldiers who have been physically wounded in action. There are some who argue that mental conditions that develop as a result are an injury nonetheless.... I can see the fundamental point, but there's a distinction b/w physical pain/injury that is enemy-inflicted with bullets, knives, etc. and mental pain/injury. One could rightly argue that any soldier who's seen combat is mentally affected to some degree --- it comes with the job. I also see the point of codifying that serious mental disorders as a result of combat stress above and beyond the norm need to be given more respect through the corps. There're a lot of soldiers who still denigrate it, look down on soldiers who suffer this, say they're faking, harass them, don't factor it in regarding assignments. And regardless of all the training, it still happens. Perhaps a middle ground would be to create a different medal confined to this area to work to reduce the stigma corps-wide over time, and help alleviate the problem that those who suffer don't come forward for fear of such reprisal. But there's others who might say it'll never go away and such would just better mark targets for harassment.... I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 I think they should set up a better system for getting them help. I've never served so quite frankly I'm not qualified to comment, but a purple heart doesn't sound right. There is actually great mental help readily available to veterans of the current operations. The big problem right now is that the vast majority of those who need help aren't stepping up to get it. The Pentagon needs to find a way to kill the misinformation deep rooted in the active duty ranks. PTSD is a physical injury -- the brain is physically damaged through heavy stress over a prolonged period. Part of the brain actually shuts down so that the serviceman can keep charging despite the dangers and stresses. That part of the brain does NOT restart after the danger or stress is gone. Way too many Marines, soldiers, sailors and airmen don't understand that; instead, they believe going in for even screening is a sign of weakness. The stigma needs to be addressed from the top down. Too many leaders believe the whole "sign of weakness" bull and keep that wrong state of mind going. That said, I do not support giving the Purple Heart for PTSD. Also, the military needs to find more effective ways to screen for PTSD so to not let those afraid of looking weak from slipping through the cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 There is actually great mental help readily available to veterans of the current operations. The big problem right now is that the vast majority of those who need help aren't stepping up to get it. I'm all for people taking responsibility for their own well being, but these poor guys are all f--ked up in the head so you can't reasonably expect that they are going to ask for help. We should figure out a better way to proactively ID the guys who need the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I'm all for people taking responsibility for their own well being, but these poor guys are all f--ked up in the head so you can't reasonably expect that they are going to ask for help. We should figure out a better way to proactively ID the guys who need the help. That' what officers and your yearly physicals are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 That' what officers and your yearly physicals are for. Well, officers should definately know their troops, but a big problem is that too many officers don't "believe in" PTSD, thinking their guys can "work through the issues." Also, a large number of those affected but not treated left the military shortly after their combat tours but before symptoms develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Well, officers should definately know their troops, but a big problem is that too many officers don't "believe in" PTSD, thinking their guys can "work through the issues." Also, a large number of those affected but not treated left the military shortly after their combat tours but before symptoms develop. No offense, but we've been in much larger wars, with a lot more folks involved, that were a lot more devastating. I do not wish to undersell what maybe happening to someone, but we've worked through these issues numerous times before. I am of the opinion that good officers will identify most of the situations, but some will slip through. But this is just IMHO another media overhyping a situation to sell a cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 No offense, but we've been in much larger wars, with a lot more folks involved, that were a lot more devastating. I do not wish to undersell what maybe happening to someone, but we've worked through these issues numerous times before. I am of the opinion that good officers will identify most of the situations, but some will slip through. But this is just IMHO another media overhyping a situation to sell a cause. No offense taken, and I don't mean to offend, but I don't think it is very intelligent to say the present-day concern for PTSD is overplayed because this war is small in size compared to the world wars. Whether you mean to or not, my reading of your post makes me believe you don't really see PTSD as a big issue. I presume that what you wrote means you believe those who fought in the Sunni Triangle don't have the right to be as emotionally scared as those who fought on Peleliu or Okinawa. Is that correct? You wrote we've worked through these issues before. Should I take that to mean you believe PTSD is just an issue a strong minded person can work through -- maybe with a therapist but not necessarily? Maybe you believe someone who cannot ever fully function with PTSD is weak? If "we've worked through these issues numerous times before," as you wrote, what was the outcome and why isn't that outcome working now? It is true that PTSD is in no way a new problem. In fact, reports of stress associated with battle appear as early as the 6th century B.C. It has been called many things, "shell shock" in World War I, "battle fatigue" in World War II, "operational exhaustion" in the Korean War, and finally PTSD, a clinical, hyphentated term, in the Vietnam War. "The pain is completely buried under jargon," as George Carlin once said. PTSD has ruined an uncoutable number of lives over the ceturies, to be sure. And it won't get better until everyone working in or around the military realizes that PTSD is not at all a sign of weakness. The Pentagon and Dept. of VA need to find ways to get the needed help to all who need it. Otherwsie, we will have move homeless vets, more drug addicted vets, more people living off yours and my tax dollars. And we will likely have more domestic violence, more war crimes and more suicides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 I'm all for people taking responsibility for their own well being, but these poor guys are all f--ked up in the head so you can't reasonably expect that they are going to ask for help. We should figure out a better way to proactively ID the guys who need the help. That is a big challenge the military has been attempting to tackle for a long time. PTSD doesn't show up on a brain scan, and the symptoms are often sublte at first and confused with other ailments, such as concussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I'm all for people taking responsibility for their own well being, but these poor guys are all f--ked up in the head so you can't reasonably expect that they are going to ask for help. We should figure out a better way to proactively ID the guys who need the help. Agreed. Why is it so hard to tackle this straight on? It's about time the Armed Services and everyone else strips off the stigma and treats it like a serious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berndogg Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Why not? I am stressed because someone hit my porch in Iraq with a morter. I'm stressed because they sent me to a combat zone. I'm stressed because I had to take a sh-- in a latrene. I am stressed becaused I watched my brother pull a gun on my dad at the Rich family picnic over someone putting the potato salad on the car hood. Like Darin said, the Army people were all complaining because special forces all had berets so they wanted to feel special too and were all awarde these very gay looking black berets that look like crap on the overweight HQ poggy bait eating REMF's. Are you James Hardy's brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 Agreed. Why is it so hard to tackle this straight on? It's about time the Armed Services and everyone else strips off the stigma and treats it like a serious problem. It's so difficult because you are proposing we all at once change the collective minds of every military member and the minds of their influencers, who include many, many who don't and won't understand the true nature of PTSD. Plus, you have to take into account that the active duty, reserves and National Guardsmen lose and gain a large number of people every day from every walk of life. You are talking about deep systematic change that will take a long time, require many different tactics and cost a bundle. But it must be done one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Actually the Iraqi vets are not getting adequate mental health treatment either for PTSD or Traumatic Brain Injury. Take the money for your friggin medals and get them the screening and treatment they need. We used to have a Christmas song in Vietnam.. "Jingle Bells, Mortar shells, Charlie's in the Grass... Take your f-ing christmas cookis, stick em up your ass!" Actually I kind of feel the same way about the purple hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Actually the Iraqi vets are not getting adequate mental health treatment either for PTSD or Traumatic Brain Injury. Take the money for your friggin medals and get them the screening and treatment they need. We used to have a Christmas song in Vietnam.. "Jingle Bells, Mortar shells, Charlie's in the Grass... Take your f-ing christmas cookis, stick em up your ass!" Actually I kind of feel the same way about the purple hearts. If this has been going on since Vietnam, why hasn't near solid DEM control of Congress until 1992 solved this problem? What Bills did they pass? If they did, which President vetoed them??? Facts are always welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 If this has been going on since Vietnam, why hasn't near solid DEM control of Congress until 1992 solved this problem? What Bills did they pass? If they did, were they vetoed? Facts are always welcome! Ouch. Nice kick to the nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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