[closed]Character for the sake of talent

[BillsVet]

With the initial reports of James Hardy allegedly pulling and/or pointing a firearm in the presence of his father, it brings up a few points:

 

1. There are 32 franchises in the NFL, 4 of which (Carolina, Jacksonville, Houston, and Cleveland) started since 1995. Talent is spread even more thin than in earlier years. As a result, finding talent in the draft is more crucial, because at least 200+ players are in the league that may not have been just 14 years ago.

 

2. Teams continue to take risks on players with character issues. Even the Bills are not immune from this with the best recent example being Anthony Hargrove.

 

3. Some teams take an inordinate amount of risks (Cincinnati) in a continual attempt to find talent that may not otherwise be taken by other teams. It's my take that the Bengals are looking for cheaper albeit riskier options, leading them to end up with the Chris Henry's and Odell Thurman's of the NFL.

 

At what point does the NFL start disciplining based on their own criteria? And if this comes to pass, how will it be treated by the NFLPA, especially if a situation ensues which lacks a conviction or even charge against a player?

[Beerball]

At what point does the NFL start disciplining based on their own criteria?

Not sure why this warranted another thread, but...they already do.

[BillsVet]

Not sure why this warranted another thread, but...they already do.

 

The NFL penalizes teams based on chargeable offenses. No charges will result from this altercation.

 

My point here is that teams are increasingly taking risks on low character players in pursuit of winning. Sometimes they swing and miss. That's not to say Hardy is a miss (he hasn't even played a down in a preseason game) but it's not a good sign in light of his past.

 

How many players fall on draft day, and ultimately get picked by teams who are willing to take a chance on big talent player for less money. E.G. Randy Moss in 1998.

[Beerball]

The NFL penalizes teams based on chargeable offenses. No charges will result from this altercation.

So players don't have to worry about what OTC supplement they take? They don't have to worry about drug testing?

[DrDawkinstein]

if only there were websites with people bored enough to sit around and make judgements on all of OUR characters based on things theyve heard 3rd or 4th hand about each of us...

[SuperKillerRobots]

if only there were websites with people bored enough to sit around and make judgements on all of OUR characters based on things theyve heard 3rd or 4th hand about each of us...

 

I eat puppies...

[KD in CA]

The NFL penalizes teams based on chargeable offenses. No charges will result from this altercation.

 

So if it's not a chargeable offense than WTF is your problem? They're football players, not alter boys.

 

 

[stuckincincy]

I eat puppies...

 

I don't care for Oriental cuisine...

[Kelly the Dog]

Maybe the NFL should, as Bill in NYC would say, "get some help", for asking kids in their 20s to go after multi-millions of dollars by running as fast as they possibly can and hurling or ramming their bodies into other guys running as fast as they can right at them, and then just stop at the whistle and go home to bake cookies and knit quilts.

[Adam]

Maybe the NFL should, as Bill in NYC would say, "get some help", for asking kids in their 20s to go after multi-millions of dollars by running as fast as they possibly can and hurling or ramming their bodies into other guys running as fast as they can right at them, and then just stop at the whistle and go home to bake cookies and knit quilts.

Adults who get paid millions of dollars represent the league. Sorry, but if I did some of the things guys like Adam Jones and Mike Vick did, I would lose my job too. Sorry, but NFL players live in the real world too.

[Kelly the Dog]

Adults who get paid millions of dollars represent the league. Sorry, but if I did some of the things guys like Adam Jones and Mike Vick did, I would lose my job too. Sorry, but NFL players live in the real world too.

Are you equating James Hardy to those two? My point is only that it's completely unrealistic to ask 20-30 year olds to go after tens of millions of dollars by being as violent as they can possibly be and then just shut it completely off and be Tom Hanks. I excuse no violence off the field whatsoever. But you're asking way too much of these kids to be model citizens when you're also asking them to hurt one another as hard as they can. In other words, there are character issues and there are character issues. But the fact a kid gets in a fight with his ex-con dad who has been absent his whole life does not necessarily mean the kid has character issues.

[BillsVet]

Take a step back and look at the big picture. You've got character challenged athletes coming into the league each year. However, it's apparent that teams on draft day that will select less talented players when guys with character issues and immense talent are available. Why? Because the risk is too great, despite the great potential these guys have. Hardy is a 6'6 receiver with great leaping ability. Yet he slipped into the mid 2nd round because he had a character issue in his past.

 

Now, two weeks after picking him, Buffalo has to deal with some around here are calling a "non-issue." The Bills selected Hardy because he's physical and a red zone threat. Only thing is, if he's suspended under the personal policy regs, it does the team no good. It probably won't be for this incident, but history shows he's got some anger issues. That's not going away.

 

Buffalo gambled on what they thought was the most talented WR left on the board. Other guys were available, but Hardy was their guy. They took the most talented guy in their opinion, but was he the best pick considering his background?

[Beerball]

But the fact a kid gets in a fight with his ex-con dad who has been absent his whole life does not necessarily mean the kid has character issues.

But, and here's where we'll disagree...he needs help. Help may be a new teammate sitting him down and telling him what's expected. Help may be Jauron having a sit down. Help may be any number of things, but the kid needs help. Help cutting ties with certain family members and probably others he grew up with. He aint ruint or anything, but he needs to cut some ties. And, if I were him, once I remove myself from that environment I would be more careful with my gun if I decided to keep it at all.

[Kelly the Dog]

Take a step back and look at the big picture. You've got character challenged athletes coming into the league each year. However, it's apparent that teams on draft day that will select less talented players when guys with character issues and immense talent are available. Why? Because the risk is too great, despite the great potential these guys have. Hardy is a 6'6 receiver with great leaping ability. Yet he slipped into the mid 2nd round because he had a character issue in his past.

 

Now, two weeks after picking him, Buffalo has to deal with some around here are calling a "non-issue." The Bills selected Hardy because he's physical and a red zone threat. Only thing is, if he's suspended under the personal policy regs, it does the team no good. It probably won't be for this incident, but history shows he's got some anger issues. That's not going away.

 

Buffalo gambled on what they thought was the most talented WR left on the board. Other guys were available, but Hardy was their guy. They took the most talented guy in their opinion, but was he the best pick considering his background?

The Patriots have Randy Moss and Rodney Harrison and Vincent Wolfolk and other guys with questionable character. The Giants had Shockey and the Colts have Marvin Harrison and all teams have a few guys with questionable histories. It's an extremely violent sport. 22 year olds everywhere also make a lot of bad judgments out side of their office. You probably have done a few yourself. I know I have. People also make mistakes, and a lot of people make one or two mistakes and that is it. I don't even know what the point is. You don't want to intentionally go after thugs or make a history of it like the Raiders, and recently the Bengals, but it's a societal thing not an NFL thing. You take any random group of 60 guys in their early 20s and 30s and at least 3-4 of them going out drinking on the weekends are going to be punks or thugs or azzholes.

[Kelly the Dog]

But, and here's where we'll disagree...he needs help. Help may be a new teammate sitting him down and telling him what's expected. Help may be Jauron having a sit down. Help may be any number of things, but the kid needs help. Help cutting ties with certain family members and probably others he grew up with. He aint ruint or anything, but he needs to cut some ties. And, if I were him, once I remove myself from that environment I would be more careful with my gun if I decided to keep it at all.

He was drafted two weeks ago.

[Billadelphia]

It's just another example of the liberal media hearing the word 'gun' and tripping over themselves to make a story out of it. There were no charges, even by the person who the gun was allegedly pulled on. Look at it, just on a micro scale. There are 6 active posts on this "story" on TSW now.

 

Nobody was injured, nobody was arrested, no crime was committed. I fail to see how this is a blow to anyones character, unless something further comes out of it.

[Beerball]

He was drafted two weeks ago.

OK. When should he begin to understand that his world has potentially changed in a very dramatic way.

 

We don't know what happened in that yard, but it was || that close to being a very bad thing for young James. Unless of course the whole thing is a silly misunderstanding and he was showing off his gun to his father.

 

It isn't pacman, it isn't Henry, it isn't Tank Williams but, it is a warning sign, and I hope it is a sign that he heeds.

[Kelly the Dog]

OK. When should he begin to understand that his world has potentially changed in a very dramatic way.

 

We don't know what happened in that yard, but it was || that close to being a very bad thing for young James. Unless of course the whole thing is a silly misunderstanding and he was showing off his gun to his father.

 

It isn't pacman, it isn't Henry, it isn't Tank Williams but, it is a warning sign, and I hope it is a sign that he heeds.

I think people may be very surprised to know what percentage of professional athletes have permits for concealed weapons, and feel threatened. And that doesn't even include kids like Hardy who came from the neighborhoods and circumstances that he did.

[Beerball]

And that doesn't even include kids like Hardy who came from the neighborhoods and circumstances that he did.

and now needs to keep his azz clear of. I guess I'm a bleeding heart conservative, if there is such a thing.

[BillsVet]

The Patriots have Randy Moss and Rodney Harrison and Vincent Wolfolk and other guys with questionable character. The Giants had Shockey and the Colts have Marvin Harrison and all teams have a few guys with questionable histories. It's an extremely violent sport. 22 year olds everywhere also make a lot of bad judgments out side of their office. You probably have done a few yourself. I know I have. People also make mistakes, and a lot of people make one or two mistakes and that is it. I don't even know what the point is. You don't want to intentionally go after thugs or make a history of it like the Raiders, and recently the Bengals, but it's a societal thing not an NFL thing. You take any random group of 60 guys in their early 20s and 30s and at least 3-4 of them going out drinking on the weekends are going to be punks or thugs or azzholes.

 

KFBD I won't disagree with all the tenets of your post. I recall reading in the book about Ernie Accorsi that he personally researched Shockey in his town of Ada, OK. Fine, I realize not every front office guy is going to perform his due dilligence on every player. The point is, Accorsi had been around the NFL awhile and determined Shockey wasn't a giant gamble.

 

We all make mistakes. Then again, as someone who owns firearms, I've never once felt the need to pull my weapon on someone. Call it my background, call it whatever, but the fact is the Bills have placed a lot of faith into this guy, and we haven't even entered training camp and he's been involved in an alleged incident. Most 20 somethings don't have issues with pulling guns, unless they're in the wrong atmosphere. And wrong atmosphere and NFL star do not go together. The comparison on getting drunk versus pulling firearms is not a good one.