In space no one can hear Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Interesting read, this thread. Or at least the parts that I've read. If it was mentioned in an earlier post, my apologies. But I'd really like all of us (at least those open to the idea) to look at the cultural aspects of what transpired. It's key if any of us wish to gain an understanding into what transpired. Prayers to the Hardy family. Especially James' child who, through the opporunity presented to his father, may escape the same cultural influences. Hopefully the baby boy won't be too much like daddy. Otherwise one day, our long awaited jumbo sized receiver, will he will be staring down the barrel of a gun held by his son.
Sketch Soland Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 The only thing more predictable than this thread is me ejaculating after having intercourse with a duck billed platypus.
dave mcbride Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 I'm willing to excuse it until I hear ANYTHING about what provoked it, yes. Especially because there are only about four facts here and three of them point in the younger Hardy's favor. He didn't fight. He left immediately. There were no threats. The guy he argued with said nothing happened. I don't LIKE the fact that he pulled a gun but those guys live in a different world than I do. He did right by following the laws and registering it. We'll have to agree to disagree. He apparently pulled a gun -- which is inexcusable in my book, although not for many here -- and he assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I'm not OK with that, and never will be.
dave mcbride Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 I'm not arguing about the altercation with his girlfriend. You claimed that Hardy assaulted his infant son. Wheres the proof of that? No proof, to be sure. But I'm not sure why someone would make that up.
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Hopefully the baby boy won't be too much like daddy. Otherwise one day, our long awaited jumbo sized receiver, will he will be staring down the barrel of a gun held by his son. At least the rampant speculation has subsided.
Sketch Soland Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 We'll have to agree to disagree. He apparently pulled a gun -- which is inexcusable in my book, although not for many here -- and he assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I'm not OK with that, and never will be. Ever seen a "never" before? Ever found a "never" in the universe"? Ever seen "never" happen? Ever experimentally established "never" empirically?
Alaska Darin Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Laugh all you want. Gun violence and murder is clearly a serious problem in this country, and the US record is uniquely bad on this issue. I don't know about you, but I'd like to see less of it myself. Not really, but why let a little thing like fact get in the way of a good emotional stance like "there is never, ever a good reason to pull a gun on someone".
stuckincincy Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 "According to the police report, the female witness told police she yelled at the younger Hardy to stop fighting when he pulled out a black gun. The woman said Hardy then left." When did they start making ethnic-specific firearms? Can it only be used on blacks, or are only blacks allowed to buy it? Maybe he's trying to send a message to the coaching staff that there's a limit to what he'll put up with from authority figures. Most guns other than the stocks are of black metal. If the gun was plaid, would it be an ethnic attack on Scots?
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 We'll have to agree to disagree. He apparently pulled a gun -- which is inexcusable in my book, although not for many here -- and he assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I'm not OK with that, and never will be. Believe me, I hate domestic abuse. But I also understand that a lot of times it isn't as it appears. It sounded to me like she went after him as much as he went after her. She tore his shirt up and he grabbed her by the neck. I'm not happy about it but I am rather amazed by the fact that these kids started dating at 13 years old before he was a football star and are still dating 8 years later. That shows a lot to me, and I wouldn't just say that statistics show women stay in relationships, they were 13 years old. Did you think James Lofton should have been on the Bills? Donte Whitner? You don't think there was anything that his ex-con, drug dealing, absentee father could have done that could have warranted James Jr. to pull out a legal gun and immediately leave? I'm not happy about it and there may eventually be things that come out that make me not OK with it at all. But I'm also not okay with the overreaction with zero facts. You're entitled to your opinion.
dave mcbride Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Not really, but why let a little thing like fact get in the way of a good emotional stance like "there is never, ever a good reason to pull a gun on someone". Well, I stand by that, although I know we disagree on this issue. I also thought I sort of implied that self-defense against a similar weapon wasn't included in my scenario ("pulling" means initiating). But I could have been clearer.
Joe Miner Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 As people with CCW should know, you never pull out your gun unless you intend to use it. (otherwise it tends to be brandishing a firearm which is illegal) The goal should always be to deescalate the situation. Drawing a gun for the fear factor can have unwanted dire consequences. Also, you better be sure you are in the right to use it, or you can get into big trouble. Most of the time that means there needs to be a credible threat to your life. An example of a credible threat to your life, given around here, is that if I'm a 6'5" 250 lb guy, and a 6'0" 200lb average unarmed guy tells me he's gonna kill me, I don't have the right to pull a gun and shoot him, because he's likely not a credible threat to my life. If on the other hand, I'm a 5'2" 110lb woman, and a 6'5" 250lb unarmed guy is threatening my life, then it would likely be ok for me to shoot him to defend myself, because he would be seen as a credible threat to my life. At the very least, Hardy is showing an incredible lack of responsibility and sound judgment by drawing his gun in an uncalled for situation. If the situation actually called for him to defend himself with a firearm, then I'm very surprised no one was arrested at all. Although it's still up to the cop's judgment on the situation. At the worst, Hardy could have some serious mental issues, and not be completely stable. Either way, this is hardly something that should be swept under the rug and forgotten by Bills management.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 No proof, to be sure. But I'm not sure why someone would make that up. You don't think if there were ANY signs whatsoever that ANYTHING happened to an infant baby when the police came that Hardy would have been charged with a major crime and not allowed to come anywhere near the kid?
In space no one can hear Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 In honor of Irv Weinstein: James "Pistol Packing Punk" Hardy.
dave mcbride Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Believe me, I hate domestic abuse. But I also understand that a lot of times it isn't as it appears. It sounded to me like she went after him as much as he went after her. She tore his shirt up and he grabbed her by the neck. I'm not happy about it but I am rather amazed by the fact that these kids started dating at 13 years old before he was a football star and are still dating 8 years later. That shows a lot to me, and I wouldn't just say that statistics show women stay in relationships, they were 13 years old. Did you think James Lofton should have been on the Bills? Donte Whitner? You don't think there was anything that his ex-con, drug dealing, absentee father could have done that could have warranted James Jr. to pull out a legal gun and immediately leave? I'm not happy about it and there may eventually be things that come out that make me not OK with it at all. But I'm also not okay with the overreaction with zero facts. You're entitled to your opinion. James Lofton? I always had a problem with that given what happened in GB (my recollection is that GB officials agreed to drop charges if he got the hell out of GB), and was never comfortable with him on the Bills. You asked! Re Whitner, I really don't know what happened. From the sound of it, it was more minor than Hardy, but I don't really know. I've never thought much of Bennett since his episode either, and was glad to see him go. Also, there is an entire literature devoted to women who stay in abusive relationships. I'm not saying his is, but it's not uncommon at all.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 I'm not sure that this is true, but I heard on Sirius radio that it was all a misunderstanding, and James Hardy thought it was "Yo Mama's! day", and he simply took offense.
VABills Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 I'm not sure that this is true, but I heard on Sirius radio that it was all a misunderstanding, and James Hardy thought it was "Yo Mama's! day", and he simply took offense. No offense, but if this happened to the Pats*, Lions, Bears, Cows*, you and everyone else would be calling them criminals and typical. Well guess what it's the NFL and a lot of these guys are scum.
Alaska Darin Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Well, I stand by that, although I know we disagree on this issue. I also thought I sort of implied that self-defense against a similar weapon wasn't included in my scenario ("pulling" means initiating). But I could have been clearer. I'll believe the hippy's will win the war on gun violence using laws and stupidity at about the same time they win the war on drugs using the same tools. As far as your "absolute" goes: It's a load of crap. The right to self defense is as fundamental as anything on this planet.
Sketch Soland Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 I'll believe the hippy's will win the war on gun violence using laws and stupidity at about the same time they win the war on drugs using the same tools. As far as your "absolute" goes: It's a load of crap. The right to self defense is as fundamental as anything on this planet. Open season, amirite?
Brandon Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 We'll have to agree to disagree. He apparently pulled a gun -- which is inexcusable in my book, although not for many here -- and he assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I'm not OK with that, and never will be. The key word there is 'apparently'. In truth, we don't know what happened. The fact that the police didn't haul him to county leads me to believe that it was indeed a misunderstanding by the neighbor.
Joe Miner Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 As far as your "absolute" goes: It's a load of crap. The right to self defense is as fundamental as anything on this planet. That's true, but in most cases you're not allowed to use more force than necessary to defend yourself (Bring a gun to a fistfight). Something that should have been taught to Hardy in his concealed carry class.
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