Just Jack Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 ever since Thurman went in as a Dolphin and Kelly went in as a Houston Gambler, I don't think we can afford to take anything for granted. I am so sick of Buffalo being disrespected this way - it makes me so madddddd!!!!!! this thread deserves only nonsensical responses You forgot Marv going in as a Kansas City Chief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 You forgot Marv going in as a Kansas City Chief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleed Bills Blue Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 You forgot Marv going in as a Kansas City Chief. Oh sure, and I guess next you'll be telling me James Lofton goes in as a Packer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 this thread deserves only nonsensical responses Suuuuure, you say that now.....and I say to that "Did I?" You may like what it was before it was what it was like, but was it really all that likable? I'm telling me. So once said, it is always saying things as if I didn't know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Joe Montana JOE MONTANA 28 16 Class of 2000 Quarterback >>> 6-2, 200 (Notre Dame) 1979-1992 San Francisco 49ers, 1993-1994 Kansas City Chiefs Joseph Clifford Montana. . .Third round draft pick, 1979 . . .Master of come-from-behind victories. . .Led 49ers to four Super Bowl wins. . . Named Super Bowl MVP three times. . . Orchestrated 92-yard winning drive in closing seconds, Super Bowl XXIII. . .All-NFL three times, All-NFC five times. . . Missed entire 1991 season with injury. . . Selected to eight Pro Bowls. . .Career statistics: 3,409 completions, 40,551 yards, 273 TDs, 92.3 passer rating. . . Born June 11, 1956, in New Eagle, Pennsylvania. Show me where he went in as anything. Check the Enshrinees Momentos Room at the Hall itself...online doesn't tell you anything...as I already stated Oh sure, and I guess next you'll be telling me James Lofton goes in as a Packer! he already did. His name isn't listed on the Bills wall in the Enshrinees Momentos Room....or at least it wasn't back in August Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Check the Enshrinees Momentos Room at the Hall itself...online doesn't tell you anything...as I already stated Those are two separate things. There is the Hall of Fame, which is just the enshrinees' busts -- which list all teams an enshrinee played for -- and then there is the museum part of the building with the mementos and historical artifacts. Just because someone has more stuff from one team than another in the museum doesn't mean he "went in" as a member of that franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Ok then why do players sign one day contracts in order to retire with the team that they want to be inducted with. Remember Thurman Thomas? Players don't sign one day contracts so they'll go into the hall with one specific team. They do it so they can retire with the team they want to retire with. It has nothing to do with the HOF. Using that logic every guy who ever played for more than one team would have to sign a one day contract or go in with the last team they played with. As mentioned above the Hall OF Fame just has busts of the players with their accomplishments. The mementos room is very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Joe Montana JOE MONTANA 28 16 Class of 2000 Quarterback >>> 6-2, 200 (Notre Dame) 1979-1992 San Francisco 49ers, 1993-1994 Kansas City Chiefs Joseph Clifford Montana. . .Third round draft pick, 1979 . . .Master of come-from-behind victories. . .Led 49ers to four Super Bowl wins. . . Named Super Bowl MVP three times. . . Orchestrated 92-yard winning drive in closing seconds, Super Bowl XXIII. . .All-NFL three times, All-NFC five times. . . Missed entire 1991 season with injury. . . Selected to eight Pro Bowls. . .Career statistics: 3,409 completions, 40,551 yards, 273 TDs, 92.3 passer rating. . . Born June 11, 1956, in New Eagle, Pennsylvania. Show me where he went in as anything. Philster's correct. Lofton's name appears on the plaque next to the Packers display in the Mementos room, but not on the Bills one. Same with Montana in the Kansas City section. (I just checked the photos I took last year to make sure.) Only players who "made the major part of their primary contribution for any one club" are listed on that team's display. Exceptions -- Joe DeLamielleure is one, appearing on both the Buffalo and Cleveland plaques -- are rare. That may have changed with the opening of the renovated Moments, Memories & Mementos Gallery last weekend, but I'm guessing it didn't. However, the room where the busts are displayed gives no hint of team affiliation other than a list under each player's name, unlike the plaques at the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, which include the cap of the enshrinee's choice. Easy question. He'll go in representing Bruce Smith. Next! Nicely played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Philster's correct. Lofton's name appears on the plaque next to the Packers display in the Mementos room, but not on the Bills one. Same with Montana in the Kansas City section. (I just checked the photos I took last year to make sure.) Only players who "made the major part of their primary contribution for any one club" are listed on that team's display. Exceptions -- Joe DeLamielleure is one, appearing on both the Buffalo and Cleveland plaques -- are rare. That may have changed with the opening of the renovated Moments, Memories & Mementos Gallery last weekend, but I'm guessing it didn't. I still think we're still talking about two different things. The room with the busts is the actual Hall of Fame, and from my visits and from their website I see nothing that indicates players go in as a member of a certain franchise. Plaques and lists in the museum section of the complex are nice but I don't think they are "official." FWIW, Lofton's name appears on the Bills list on the HoF website, as does Montana's name on the Chiefs' list, so it's possible those plaques are incomplete or haven't been updated. (LINK) However, the room where the busts are displayed gives no hint of team affiliation other than a list under each player's name, unlike the plaques at the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, which include the cap of the enshrinee's choice. That has changed in recent years as a result of guys choosing the caps of teams where they spent a minority of their career or had minimal success. Now the Hall will take the player's wishes into consideration, but the final decision rests with the HoF. From the BBHoF website: Who decides what team logo will be used on Hall of Fame plaques? The choice of which team’s logo appears on a player’s plaque is the Museum's decision, though we always consider the wishes of an inductee. As a history Museum, it's important that the logo be emblematic of the historical accomplishments of that player's career. A player's election to the Hall of Fame is a career achievement, and as such, every team for whom he played is listed on the plaque; however, the logo selection is based on where that player makes his most indelible mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I still think we're still talking about two different things. The room with the busts is the Hall of Fame Gallery, and from my visits and from their website I see nothing that indicates players go in as a member of a certain franchise. True. Sorry if my earlier post seemed to suggest otherwise. (Fixed the name, though, because the entire complex is considered to be part of the Hall.) Plaques and lists in the museum section of the complex are nice but I don't think they are "official." FWIW, Lofton's name appears on the Bills list on the HoF website, as does Montana's name on the Chiefs' list, so it's possible those plaques are incomplete or haven't been updated. (LINK) On the list in the media guide as well, but not as a "primary" player for that franchise. You'll note that Lofton's name is the only one not in all caps: "Hall of Famers who made the major part of their primary contribution for any one club are listed in CAPS. In cases where a player contributed about equally and/or in a major way to two or more clubs -- he is listed in CAPS under both clubs (ie. Nick Buoniconti is listed with both the Patriots and the Dolphins as his primary teams.) Hall of Famers who spent only a minor portion of their career with any club are listed under that club in lower case." Only the "primary" players are listed on the plaque: Simpson, Shaw, Levy, Kelly, DeLamielleure (who went in with the Class of 2003, same as Lofton), and Thomas. Again, this is before the redesign. And like the Enshrinement Halls -- what they were called until the 2003 renovation -- I'm not crazy about the new look. Not entirely sure they still HAVE team displays, since the Thomas jersey and Bills-Raiders AFC Championship Game playbook from "our" showcase have apparently taken up residence next to a Barry Sanders jersey ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 There you go again, Lori. Working hard to get the story right. Much appreciated, ma'am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 True. Sorry if my earlier post seemed to suggest otherwise. (Fixed the name, though, because the entire complex is considered to be part of the Hall.) Fair enough - as Nanker said, getting it right it what matters and I was just making sure we were talking about the same things. (Insert obligatory LSI "thumbs up" here ." On the list in the media guide as well, but not as a "primary" player for that franchise. You'll note that Lofton's name is the only one not in all caps:"Hall of Famers who made the major part of their primary contribution for any one club are listed in CAPS. In cases where a player contributed about equally and/or in a major way to two or more clubs -- he is listed in CAPS under both clubs (ie. Nick Buoniconti is listed with both the Patriots and the Dolphins as his primary teams.) Hall of Famers who spent only a minor portion of their career with any club are listed under that club in lower case." Only the "primary" players are listed on the plaque: Simpson, Shaw, Levy, Kelly, DeLamielleure (who went in with the Class of 2003, same as Lofton), and Thomas. True. I kind of quickly skimmed over the explanation at the top of the "enshrinees by franchise" page, so I didn't catch it all. Again, this is before the redesign. And like the Enshrinement Halls -- what they were called until the 2003 renovation -- I'm not crazy about the new look. Not entirely sure they still HAVE team displays, since the Thomas jersey and Bills-Raiders AFC Championship Game playbook from "our" showcase have apparently taken up residence next to a Barry Sanders jersey ... Despite being 20 minutes from the Hall our last visit was about a year ago. I don't recall seeing the plaques with the team names and their respective enshrinees - but then again I was with my wife, parents and had my then-four-month-old son with us, so I am sure I missed some cool stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 This is the old display. Circa 2002, when Kelly went in. The "plaque" we're talking about is the sign above Jim's helmet. Here's what it looked like on Thurman's enshrinement weekend. (Sorry for the blurry pic -- I was getting used to a new digital camera after years of manual-focus SLRs.) Note that Thurman's jersey has replaced O.J.'s ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 This is the old display. Circa 2002, when Kelly went in. The "plaque" we're talking about is the sign above Jim's helmet. Here's what it looked like on Thurman's enshrinement weekend. (Sorry for the blurry pic -- I was getting used to a new digital camera after years of manual-focus SLRs.) Note that Thurman's jersey has replaced O.J.'s ... Looks much better like that. Certainly for the spirit of what the Bills really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 This is the old display. Circa 2002, when Kelly went in. The "plaque" we're talking about is the sign above Jim's helmet. Here's what it looked like on Thurman's enshrinement weekend. (Sorry for the blurry pic -- I was getting used to a new digital camera after years of manual-focus SLRs.) Note that Thurman's jersey has replaced O.J.'s ... Looking through my digital pics it appears that I did get a shot of the Bills' display (with OJ's jersey) but I never noticed the plaque until you pointed it out in your photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Thanks for pointing out the plaque I was talking about in your pics, Lori. I guess we'll see what things look like in the HOF next August when Bruce gets inducted. I do have to wonder who decides what team(s) a player gets listed with...why Joe D got listed with 2 teams and Lofton only with the Packers. Funny thing is....the memorabilia in the Hall's Momento's room for Lofton....is a ball he caught while with the Bills. Still, the gift shop recognized Lofton with both Bills and Packers. Each inductee in 2003 had TShirts in the primary color of the team they played for. Lofton had both a blue and a green. I can't be sure of Joe D...whether he had a brown one in addition to the blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Thanks for pointing out the plaque I was talking about in your pics, Lori. I guess we'll see what things look like in the HOF next August when Bruce gets inducted.I do have to wonder who decides what team(s) a player gets listed with...why Joe D got listed with 2 teams and Lofton only with the Packers. Funny thing is....the memorabilia in the Hall's Momento's room for Lofton....is a ball he caught while with the Bills. Still, the gift shop recognized Lofton with both Bills and Packers. Each inductee in 2003 had TShirts in the primary color of the team they played for. Lofton had both a blue and a green. I can't be sure of Joe D...whether he had a brown one in addition to the blue. Joe had both Bills and Browns stuff -- since he played a good chunk of his career (five of 13 seasons) in Cleveland, he's listed with both teams, and his painting (remember, the ones that used to be above the busts before they changed everything?) has action shots in both uniforms. On the other hand, since Lofton played nine seasons in Green Bay and no more than four anywhere else, his picture is a Packers action shot with Raiders and Bills logos added in one corner. Think they only carried the Bills #80 gear because he played in the Super Bowls, and (oh yeah) we Bills fans get silly about buying all that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Little Stevie Van Zant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Yeah, I remember the paintings...wish they hadn't done away with them. I can understand the need for making more room for new inductees, but I liked the general feel of the room the way it was before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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