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I'm currently working on a new fantasy football website and looking to write an offensive line analysis for every NFL team. I'm looking for information on the Bills offensive line such as the :

-Projected 2008 starters

-Little blurb on each starter and the top backups (better at pass or run blocking, strong, agile, good or bad 2007 season)

-Best guys on the line

-Weak links on the line (if any)

-Why could the line be better in 2008?

-Why could the line be worse in 2008?

 

I'm basically looking for any information and would really appreciate if you could help me out.

 

Thanks very much,

Phil

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I was waiting to defer to someone who's a little more knowledgable on the subject, but no one has posted yet, so I'll get it started anyway.

 

Starters:

LT Jason Peters

LG Derrick Dockery

C Melvin Fowler

RG Brad Butler

RT Langston Walker

 

Peters is a UDFA TE turned LT. He's the strongest member of the line. He's very athletic and was selected to the Pro Bowl last year, but was injured late in the season, so he didn't make the trip. He's possibly the best player on the Bills roster. He consistently shuts down whoever is across from him, including 06 defensive MVP Jason Taylor everytime the Bills play the Dolphins.

 

Dockery is the highest paid player on the team, he's 6-6 330+ and is a very solid and dependable starter. Him and Peters could be the best left side tandem in the NFL if they improve their run blocking.

 

Melvin Fowler is probably the weak link on the line. He's smallish 6-3 310, and gets pushed off the line too easily sometimes. I've heard from the coaching staff and other players that he's a smart player, and a good leader on the line.

 

Brad Butler is 6-7 315. He's a young player who won the job last year in camp. He started every game and did a pretty good job. He has good technique, and should be improved from his experience last year. Someone else will have to fill in more...

 

Langston Walker is a big man 6-8 355. His first year with the Bills was last year. He was improved on pass protection from his years with the Raiders, but can improve run blocking. He's a smart guy and a smart player, but lacks some of the athletic ability, and needs to play more ferociously.

 

Those 5 guys started 15 consectutive games last season, until Peters got hurt in week 15. Once Peters went down, there was a notable drop off in the lines performance as a whole. Him playing well is vital to the Bills success. They were very good in pass protection last year, only allowing 26 sacks, and I anticipate that success carrying over. As a line, they need to play with a little more nastiness in the run game, because Marshawn Lynch rarely got to the second level untouched, which we need to have happen more often because he can be dangerous in space with a head of steam.

 

Consistency is a plus for this unit since they've been together a year now, and should be able to improve on their play from last year, which was overall very good. They're also a very big group, even for NFL OL standards.

 

It's hard for me to anticipate possible reasons why they might falter. If Peters goes down we could be screwed, as well as Dockery. Fowler could be a liability at center. Many on this board wanted to see us bring in a new center, which would help the line, but he's not exactly terrible either.

 

Someone will have to fill this man in on the backups...

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I was waiting to defer to someone who's a little more knowledgable on the subject, but no one has posted yet, so I'll get it started anyway.

 

Starters:

LT Jason Peters

LG Derrick Dockery

C Melvin Fowler

RG Brad Butler

RT Langston Walker

 

Peters is a UDFA TE turned LT. He's the strongest member of the line. He's very athletic and was selected to the Pro Bowl last year, but was injured late in the season, so he didn't make the trip. He's possibly the best player on the Bills roster. He consistently shuts down whoever is across from him, including 06 defensive MVP Jason Taylor everytime the Bills play the Dolphins.

 

Dockery is the highest paid player on the team, he's 6-6 330+ and is a very solid and dependable starter. Him and Peters could be the best left side tandem in the NFL if they improve their run blocking.

 

Melvin Fowler is probably the weak link on the line. He's smallish 6-3 310, and gets pushed off the line too easily sometimes. I've heard from the coaching staff and other players that he's a smart player, and a good leader on the line.

 

Brad Butler is 6-7 315. He's a young player who won the job last year in camp. He started every game and did a pretty good job. He has good technique, and should be improved from his experience last year. Someone else will have to fill in more...

 

Langston Walker is a big man 6-8 355. His first year with the Bills was last year. He was improved on pass protection from his years with the Raiders, but can improve run blocking. He's a smart guy and a smart player, but lacks some of the athletic ability, and needs to play more ferociously.

 

Those 5 guys started 15 consectutive games last season, until Peters got hurt in week 15. Once Peters went down, there was a notable drop off in the lines performance as a whole. Him playing well is vital to the Bills success. They were very good in pass protection last year, only allowing 26 sacks, and I anticipate that success carrying over. As a line, they need to play with a little more nastiness in the run game, because Marshawn Lynch rarely got to the second level untouched, which we need to have happen more often because he can be dangerous in space with a head of steam.

 

Consistency is a plus for this unit since they've been together a year now, and should be able to improve on their play from last year, which was overall very good. They're also a very big group, even for NFL OL standards.

 

It's hard for me to anticipate possible reasons why they might falter. If Peters goes down we could be screwed, as well as Dockery. Fowler could be a liability at center. Many on this board wanted to see us bring in a new center, which would help the line, but he's not exactly terrible either.

 

Someone will have to fill this man in on the backups...

 

Thanks very much, that helps a lot.

I'll do some additional research and write the article by Monday and post it on here for those interested.

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I was waiting to defer to someone who's a little more knowledgable on the subject, but no one has posted yet, so I'll get it started anyway.

 

Starters:

LT Jason Peters

LG Derrick Dockery

C Melvin Fowler

RG Brad Butler

RT Langston Walker

 

Peters is a UDFA TE turned LT. He's the strongest member of the line. He's very athletic and was selected to the Pro Bowl last year, but was injured late in the season, so he didn't make the trip. He's possibly the best player on the Bills roster. He consistently shuts down whoever is across from him, including 06 defensive MVP Jason Taylor everytime the Bills play the Dolphins.

 

Dockery is the highest paid player on the team, he's 6-6 330+ and is a very solid and dependable starter. Him and Peters could be the best left side tandem in the NFL if they improve their run blocking.

 

Melvin Fowler is probably the weak link on the line. He's smallish 6-3 310, and gets pushed off the line too easily sometimes. I've heard from the coaching staff and other players that he's a smart player, and a good leader on the line.

 

Brad Butler is 6-7 315. He's a young player who won the job last year in camp. He started every game and did a pretty good job. He has good technique, and should be improved from his experience last year. Someone else will have to fill in more...

 

Langston Walker is a big man 6-8 355. His first year with the Bills was last year. He was improved on pass protection from his years with the Raiders, but can improve run blocking. He's a smart guy and a smart player, but lacks some of the athletic ability, and needs to play more ferociously.

 

Those 5 guys started 15 consectutive games last season, until Peters got hurt in week 15. Once Peters went down, there was a notable drop off in the lines performance as a whole. Him playing well is vital to the Bills success. They were very good in pass protection last year, only allowing 26 sacks, and I anticipate that success carrying over. As a line, they need to play with a little more nastiness in the run game, because Marshawn Lynch rarely got to the second level untouched, which we need to have happen more often because he can be dangerous in space with a head of steam.

 

Consistency is a plus for this unit since they've been together a year now, and should be able to improve on their play from last year, which was overall very good. They're also a very big group, even for NFL OL standards.

 

It's hard for me to anticipate possible reasons why they might falter. If Peters goes down we could be screwed, as well as Dockery. Fowler could be a liability at center. Many on this board wanted to see us bring in a new center, which would help the line, but he's not exactly terrible either.

 

Someone will have to fill this man in on the backups...

An added item about Fowler is that his light weight is not only the potential cause of his being more easily bullrushed, but also is the flipside that he is considered to be mobile and has shown talent as a pulling center who has the speed necessary to get outside and do effective blocking on sweep plays. The apparent operating theory would be to have the QB pitch the ball to Lynch heading to the outside on the Peters/Dockery side of the OL.

 

Peters would seal the end of the line by pushing forward with his block and Fowler would have the athleticism to actually get in front of Lynch by pulling and lead him through the CB and S on that side.

 

It sounds like a lot of athleticism to expect the C to be able to make such a large move quickly enough, but the theory us that Fowler is fast enough and smart enough to do this type of maneuver.

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we have no qualified backups

 

but OL never get hurt so the backups don;t matter :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps you should take another look at the roster. Whittle is a more than capable backup at both G positions and at RT. Duke Preston is not great, but he is adequate at C and as a third replacement at the G position. Kirk Chambers is an experienced NFL veteran and he demonstrated that he could play very well at the LT spot when Peters went down for a short time last season. Further, Buffalo has some younger talent on the PS who are all right if they need to be called. I also think two of our pickups this year in the draft have the potential to play well for us if they need to be called into action. You can't have twelve starters signed on the OL. We have three players who can play well enough to hold down the fort if an injury occurs.

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Perhaps you should take another look at the roster. Whittle is a more than capable backup at both G positions and at RT. Duke Preston is not great, but he is adequate at C and as a third replacement at the G position. Kirk Chambers is an experienced NFL veteran and he demonstrated that he could play very well at the LT spot when Peters went down for a short time last season. Further, Buffalo has some younger talent on the PS who are all right if they need to be called. I also think two of our pickups this year in the draft have the potential to play well for us if they need to be called into action. You can't have twelve starters signed on the OL. We have three players who can play well enough to hold down the fort if an injury occurs.

 

U

 

1. As weak as Fowler was last year, at least he did not get hurt forcing Preston of the Yukon onto the field. Not sure how you know if Preston is adequate at C since we have not had the pleasure of watching him get blown at anywhere other than G.

 

 

2. Whittle may actually be able to backup at C. However, it is a big risk that a 33+ year old recovering from a hamstring torn completely from the bone will be able to return to his prior skill level and survive the season.

 

But if these 2 can't do it, then just bring up those unanmed practice squad guys - I 'm sure the OL won't miss a beat.

 

3. Kirk Chambers is a world class turnstyle who manged to not post horrendous sack totals because the team was forced to abandon the offense and shift the TEs that usually hide Walker's flaws to the left side to protect Chambers. He is not enough of an athlete to handle speed rushers..

 

If any of the starters is out for an extended period, Trent Edwards development goes on hold and the offense becomes even more conservative than last year. Since the run blocking of the starters was not very good, the ranking of worst offense in team history could be in jeopardy.

 

But maybe those practice squad guys will surprise.

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U

 

1. As weak as Fowler was last year, at least he did not get hurt forcing Preston of the Yukon onto the field. Not sure how you know if Preston is adequate at C since we have not had the pleasure of watching him get blown at anywhere other than G.

 

 

2. Whittle may actually be able to backup at C. However, it is a big risk that a 33+ year old recovering from a hamstring torn completely from the bone will be able to return to his prior skill level and survive the season.

 

But if these 2 can't do it, then just bring up those unanmed practice squad guys - I 'm sure the OL won't miss a beat.

 

3. Kirk Chambers is a world class turnstyle who manged to not post horrendous sack totals because the team was forced to abandon the offense and shift the TEs that usually hide Walker's flaws to the left side to protect Chambers. He is not enough of an athlete to handle speed rushers..

 

If any of the starters is out for an extended period, Trent Edwards development goes on hold and the offense becomes even more conservative than last year. Since the run blocking of the starters was not very good, the ranking of worst offense in team history could be in jeopardy.

 

But maybe those practice squad guys will surprise.

 

While I would love to have twelve world class OLs on the roster, no team in the NFL can afford to have that many OLs. The fact is that while Preston has not been great, he did play more center in college than guard and that is a more natural position for him. As for Walker, I don't think the TE play had anything to do with it. Walker surpassed all expectations last year and played tremendously at RT. The number speak for themselves.

 

Kirk Chambers was NOT a turnstyle last year when he played in Peters's stead. He held his own against some of the best pass rushers in the league, including as the last poster noted, Osi Umanyura who is one of the better young pass rushers in the game.

 

Whittle is completely healed from his injury and it seems the medical staff is satisifed that he is one hundred percent for the start of the season. For more, see the article discussing Whittle in today's Buffalo News. And if Whittle is well enough to start, he is more than capable of playing a solid backup role for either G position, and possibly RT where he has seen sporadic playing time in his career. Peters was out for an extended period of time last year, and his progress continued to the end of the season, not withstanding that Kirk Chambers was starting at LT.

 

Sorry, but I think you underestimate the quality of our back ups, not to mention that Demetrius Bell, while young looks like he could be a good backup this year, as does our UDFA from Arkansas who would likely make due in a serious pinch. Have a little faith. The OL has received a lot of attention over the past two years in FA and those players are solid. Our backups are what they are, but they were able to do an adequate job last year when called upon.

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. Walker surpassed all expectations last year and played tremendously at RT. The number speak for themselves.

 

which numbers would those be.

 

The ones for the worst offensive production in team history , or

 

30+ in the NFL in 3rd down conversions, or

 

30th in overall offense, or

 

30th in passing

 

 

I guess that $75 million was well spent

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which numbers would those be.

 

The ones for the worst offensive production in team history , or

 

30+ in the NFL in 3rd down conversions, or

 

30th in overall offense, or

 

30th in passing

 

 

I guess that $75 million was well spent

 

No, I was thinking of the franchise record for least sacks given up in a season: 26. The fact that we couldn't throw the ball wasn't a product of Edwards/Losman not having time. The OL gave them time. Receivers weren't open and Losman couldn't throw. That hurt. Edwards was better, but receivers were still not open.

 

I was also thinking the 5th highest rushing yards for a RB in the league last year. Yeah, those guys did a terrible job up front running the ball. Do I wish we could have been BETTER? Of course. All teams and players have room for improvement. The Bills OL is no exception. Yet, they aren't the reason the offense suffered. Much of the blame is on SF for terrible playcalling and for skill players not executing. The OL did a hell of a job last year, and the three players we grabbed in FA were the best on the field. Before you talk smack you should consider all of the factors and look at the numbers that matter most. The line is not responsible for the the failings of the offense as a unit. The blame goes elsewhere, but since you appear to be Line-Obsessed, that may be hard for you to see.

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Starters:

LT Jason Peters

LG Derrick Dockery

C Melvin Fowler

RG Brad Butler

RT Langston Walker

 

Peters has great feet for a big man, is great at keeping the rusher in front of him and staying with him on edge riding rushers past the pocket. Also drives his man off the ball in the run game, and agile enough to get to the lb's and cb's.

 

Dockery seems to have a lot of standoffs at the line of scrimmage especially on short yardage plays. Doesn't get beat but doesn't move his man either. I think problem is teams overloaded his side knowing the Bills were runnning that way. Did well pass blocking.

 

Fowler gets blown up a lot in short yardage situations. Jacksonville game was ugly. He does pull on sweeps.

 

Butler improved a lot over the season. Huge man Got beat a lot to the inside early on resulting in whiffs or holding penalties.

 

Walker was a good pass blocker. Team did not run his way often.

 

Whittle will be swing guy filling in. Preston is terrible. Matt Murphy must have some ability to be kept around after postion change.

 

Group was improved in 2007 and may benefit from improved and more innovative play calling.

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No, I was thinking of the franchise record for least sacks given up in a season: 26. The fact that we couldn't throw the ball wasn't a product of Edwards/Losman not having time. The OL gave them time. Receivers weren't open and Losman couldn't throw. That hurt. Edwards was better, but receivers were still not open.

 

I was also thinking the 5th highest rushing yards for a RB in the league last year. Yeah, those guys did a terrible job up front running the ball. Do I wish we could have been BETTER? Of course. All teams and players have room for improvement. The Bills OL is no exception. Yet, they aren't the reason the offense suffered. Much of the blame is on SF for terrible playcalling and for skill players not executing. The OL did a hell of a job last year, and the three players we grabbed in FA were the best on the field. Before you talk smack you should consider all of the factors and look at the numbers that matter most. The line is not responsible for the the failings of the offense as a unit. The blame goes elsewhere, but since you appear to be Line-Obsessed, that may be hard for you to see.

 

they also had the fewest passes attempted.

 

The OL got help from TEs and backs probably 95% of the time - and also benefited from having most passes thrown under 10 yards. But if you liked the offense last year - more power to you.

 

The true indication of a good OL is the abiltiy to pick up short yardage on a consistent basis.

 

The Bills OL was consistently over-matched and pushed back - which is shocking considering their size advantage.

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No, I was thinking of the franchise record for least sacks given up in a season: 26. The fact that we couldn't throw the ball wasn't a product of Edwards/Losman not having time. The OL gave them time. Receivers weren't open and Losman couldn't throw. That hurt. Edwards was better, but receivers were still not open.

 

I was also thinking the 5th highest rushing yards for a RB in the league last year. Yeah, those guys did a terrible job up front running the ball. Do I wish we could have been BETTER? Of course. All teams and players have room for improvement. The Bills OL is no exception. Yet, they aren't the reason the offense suffered. Much of the blame is on SF for terrible playcalling and for skill players not executing. The OL did a hell of a job last year, and the three players we grabbed in FA were the best on the field. Before you talk smack you should consider all of the factors and look at the numbers that matter most. The line is not responsible for the the failings of the offense as a unit. The blame goes elsewhere, but since you appear to be Line-Obsessed, that may be hard for you to see.

 

 

its obviously Fowler's fault that Trent would do that kneel-thing before every running play and telegraph what was coming to the defense. the OLine should not have done that. everything else on the offense was flawless. if it wasnt for that horrible line.

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they also had the fewest passes attempted.

 

The OL got help from TEs and backs probably 95% of the time - and also benefited from having most passes thrown under 10 yards. But if you liked the offense last year - more power to you.

 

The true indication of a good OL is the abiltiy to pick up short yardage on a consistent basis.

 

The Bills OL was consistently over-matched and pushed back - which is shocking considering their size advantage.

 

Again, that's play calling. Now, when someone points out that the line did very well in pass protection, you just say well, they just never threw the ball. They threw it enough for us to see that they were good in pass protection. Even if you stretch the sack to pass ratio out, Buffalo was still one of the top pass blocking teams in the league. You're going to have to come up with a better argument than we didn't do it as much as the other guys.

 

Every OL gets assistance from a TE and an RB. That is why teams teach their RBs to block. When the team blitzes eight against you, the OL can only stop five or six. That means someone has to be able to pick up the other two. Enter the TE and the RB. To say that Buffalo's TEs and RBs can block doesn't show that the line was bad. It means they had good blocking schemes that took into account the blitz on obvious passing downs, and tried to use the TE as an additional blocker, like every other good running team in the league. Not really a good argument for your side, but nice try.

 

I'll give you that short yardage was not their best area. I would put a lot of the blame for that on three things. First, Fowler is undersized and on short yardage plays where leverage and weight are required in the middle to push the pile, he just can't get enough push to open those cracks and allow the back to get those yards. Second, using an H-Back is not effective in those situations. You need a big strong FB who can crack a hole in the line and spring the back for that necessary yard or two. Third, the playcalling was straight up the middle on the majority of those plays, right to where the line was weakest with Fowler blocking. Their success came when they ran left, towards the strength of the line with Dockery and Peters and TE on the outside. When they ran that way in short situations, they were much more likely to succeed. SF either didn't know or didn't care. If Fowler wasn't at center, this line would be All-Pro, but he is so the line is above average, and will likely be better this year.

 

I agree with you second to last statement, but think that the problem is easily identifiable and remediable. Upgrade the C posiiton and the line will be REALLY good. Right now they get the job done. With the other additions on offense this season I believe that the Bills will be a much better offensive team, and the line will be that much better having had a year playing together.

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which numbers would those be.

 

The ones for the worst offensive production in team history , or

 

30+ in the NFL in 3rd down conversions, or

 

30th in overall offense, or

 

30th in passing

 

 

I guess that $75 million was well spent

I also see some hard questions for our OL, but your indictment overstates the case so badly its hard to defend what comes off as WGR like hysteria that we simply are DDOOOMMEEDD because our OL is in such bad shape.

 

I think there are real questions about:

 

1. whether Whittle's injury is just the first in the series that getting older players come down with which makes him a questionable back-up.

 

2. How will Chambers be if called upon for an extended stint.

 

3. Given that Preston proved not to be the answer at G (as proven by him being beaten out by Butler at a new position for him which many folks feel confident in him but he clearly is still learning) how do we feel about him as back-up C.

 

These certainly are issues to be concerned about, but it appears doubtful that anyone should be getting their panties all up in a wad over these issues which simply do not rise to the level of worries (yet).

 

I think it would be more than reasonable to be worried rather than simply concerned about these issues if they involved someone we saw as a starter.

 

Yet, though back-ups are an important thing in this league where injury is only a play away, perhaps the most indicative signs for us outsiders about how comfortable we should be with the back-ups is the level of intensity the braintrust shows in trying to pick up different answers for the back-up concerns.

 

It could easily be the case (and it appears to be judging from the candidates who were available and the team needs, that there simply was no specific player available in this draft at OL who was either:

 

1. A good enough player to be a better choice than a potential elite player McKelvin who slipped down to the #11 spot (is there some specific OL player whom you think was worthy of a #11 or is a better prospect than McKelvin.

 

2. Is OL (a RG at best but more likely a back-up) a greater need than a WR for our second choice (as the player picked would be a starter at WR but a likely back-up or depth player at the #2 pick I think WR was the right way to go).

 

3. The Bills seemed to have made a BPA pick for Ellis in the 3rd. This BPA will likely actually see some significant playing time for us as we run a DL rotation while a BPA OL player would likely have warmed the bench and not contributed much to the Bills in 08 if we were lucky,

 

4. The big endorsement of the Bills coaches actually was shown when there was not any huge FA investments for OL depth though we had the cash to do this. Is there a credible case to be made that there was some specific player we should have gone after to increase our OL depth.

 

In the absence of a suggestion of real alternatives then such a broad based indictment comes off as merely a whine.

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I also see some hard questions for our OL, but your indictment overstates the case so badly its hard to defend what comes off as WGR like hysteria that we simply are DDOOOMMEEDD because our OL is in such bad shape.

 

I think there are real questions about:

 

1. whether Whittle's injury is just the first in the series that getting older players come down with which makes him a questionable back-up.

 

2. How will Chambers be if called upon for an extended stint.

 

3. Given that Preston proved not to be the answer at G (as proven by him being beaten out by Butler at a new position for him which many folks feel confident in him but he clearly is still learning) how do we feel about him as back-up C.

 

These certainly are issues to be concerned about, but it appears doubtful that anyone should be getting their panties all up in a wad over these issues which simply do not rise to the level of worries (yet).

 

I think it would be more than reasonable to be worried rather than simply concerned about these issues if they involved someone we saw as a starter.

 

Yet, though back-ups are an important thing in this league where injury is only a play away, perhaps the most indicative signs for us outsiders about how comfortable we should be with the back-ups is the level of intensity the braintrust shows in trying to pick up different answers for the back-up concerns.

 

It could easily be the case (and it appears to be judging from the candidates who were available and the team needs, that there simply was no specific player available in this draft at OL who was either:

 

1. A good enough player to be a better choice than a potential elite player McKelvin who slipped down to the #11 spot (is there some specific OL player whom you think was worthy of a #11 or is a better prospect than McKelvin.

 

2. Is OL (a RG at best but more likely a back-up) a greater need than a WR for our second choice (as the player picked would be a starter at WR but a likely back-up or depth player at the #2 pick I think WR was the right way to go).

 

3. The Bills seemed to have made a BPA pick for Ellis in the 3rd. This BPA will likely actually see some significant playing time for us as we run a DL rotation while a BPA OL player would likely have warmed the bench and not contributed much to the Bills in 08 if we were lucky,

 

4. The big endorsement of the Bills coaches actually was shown when there was not any huge FA investments for OL depth though we had the cash to do this. Is there a credible case to be made that there was some specific player we should have gone after to increase our OL depth.

 

In the absence of a suggestion of real alternatives then such a broad based indictment comes off as merely a whine.

IMO, one of your finer recent efforts, PG -- both in content and in brevity. :blink: My thoughts:

 

Ellis was not simply a BPA selection -- he will instantly join the rotation at DE and is a "get to the QB" specialist. This was a selection to specifically address a weakness on the roster.

 

To me, the biggest question of the offseason -- one NONE of us can possibly answer right now -- is whether, in the 4th and 5th rounds, there were OL prospects available who would have been more valuable than the players the Bills selected (Corner, Fine, Bowen). All three of those players have an excellent opportunity to see the field in all three phases of the game -- offense (Fine), defense (Corner), and ST (all three).

 

Until someone provides something more than an overly broad statement such as "the Bills should be drafting OL to develop backups" and can explain why that would be a BETTER strategy than what the Bills did in this draft, it's all just talk.

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