MOVE OVER SMARTY JONES

[Nanker]

I have a small living room. I'm going to order a baby polar bear rug.

Can I get a pair of mittens?

The Mrs.'s baby Harp Seal goves are nearly "thread-bare".

[stevestojan]

Stojan, at least with Big Brown losing you don't have to worry about being prosecuted for cybersquatting.

 

eBall, certainly you were here for the Smarty Jones fiasco... the threats of lawsuit, being accused of being a cyber squatter...

 

Fez finding out who the attorney was and following her on her morning run.... or was that Frez? Either way, it was great

[Bmwolf21]

Good post. I also assumed Desormeux was happy to be off the rail and directly behind the leader where BB might have been kicked.

Sounds like the trainer is starting to throw Desormeaux under the bus:

 

Jockey Kent Desormeaux eased up Big Brown with a quarter-mile remaining in the race, won by 38-1 long shot Da' Tara.

 

"I don't know why he had to do that," said Dutrow, who questioned Desormeaux's decisions in the race.

 

Entering the first turn, Desormeaux took a hard hold of Big Brown and yanked him to the outside, bumping with Anak Nakal before finding running room outside of Tale of Ekati while Da' Tara opened up a three-length lead around the clubhouse turn.

 

"I'm sure he didn't have any idea what the hell was going on going into the first turn the way [Desormeaux] was switching him all over the damn track," Dutrow said. "I don't know what he was doing."

[Fan in San Diego]

The horse took him outside. One of two things happened....1) The foot was iffy, but since a stud deal was done and the connections owe a lot to NY racing, they made sure he was ok to give it a try and gave it their best shot as to not cost NYRA a payday at the betting windows and the turnstiles. The horse was lugging out from the start. When one side is off, the horse will move out in the other direction as overcompensation. He came out of the gate and went to the right...went a few strides and lugged out, and almost blew the turn. A horse goes from running on it's right front leg to it's left front in the turns. Big Brown looked like a rudderless ship on that first turn. He stayed wide the whole trip and the jockey had nothing to do with it from what I can tell on the replays.

 

 

80% it was the foot, and with all the hooplah about injury and Eight Bells, they sure as heck aren't going to tell you it was the foot. They have been pretty honest about his issues from the get go, but then you really can't hide a foot splitting either. A few months ago his foot was made of Play-dough and they just wanted to get to the Derby, so all in all they had a great run.

 

See I told you

 

Entering the first turn, Desormeaux took a hard hold of Big Brown and yanked him to the outside, bumping with Anak Nakal before finding running room outside of Tale of Ekati while Da' Tara opened up a three-length lead around the clubhouse turn.

[Dwight Drane]

See I told you

 

Entering the first turn, Desormeaux took a hard hold of Big Brown and yanked him to the outside, bumping with Anak Nakal before finding running room outside of Tale of Ekati while Da' Tara opened up a three-length lead around the clubhouse turn.

Eh, not what I see. The horse broke and bolted straight outside, took himself out again through the lane the first time (and only), and looked to blow the turn. Desormeaux snatched him up well before the turn and didn't look to take him outside to me. He looked to his right 3 times in anticipation of the horse blowing the turn it looked like.

 

Whatever the real reason, the horse was going to finish last. He went 6 furlongs in 1:13 and then started to shut down. He went the first 6 furlongs in Florida in 1:10.

 

Could all involved be talking 100% honestly, I guess so. All I know is we have a horse with the same exact problem and he did the same thing against a group of good horses. Same guy making the shoes, same vet. He came in 20 lengths behind when his foot went bad on him, then came back to run 3rd and 2nd in two races that he came back to run when his foot was "right". He was going to run Saturday in an earlier race, but he worked out last weekend and the foot was pinching him again. We could have had him raring to go, but the risk of him running the way Big Brown did wasn't worth it.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens now. They say nothing is wrong, but if they keep walking him around the barn all week and don't gallop him on the track, there is a good chance he is going to retire. What they'll probably say is "He had a little bit of something get into that quarter crack and he finally popped an abscess on us. The foot wasn't throwing any heat, but it worked itself out after the race."

 

In reality, they should stop on him after a race like that. He's worth too much, and I find it hard to believe he'll run in the Travers, but who knows. If they can salvage the foot without stopping altogether, it would be nice to see him face Curlin in the Breeders Cup. If he would have won the Triple Crown they could stand him for $125,000 per shot in the breeding shed, and he still may top 6 figures anyway. If he retires now, he's probably closer to the $75,000 range.

 

On a side note, steroids had nothing to do with it. Those used are usually to help train and recover. By the time the horse races, the drugs have already done their job. It is a problem that drugs are so commonplace these days, but just like football players these horses are adding more and more weight and muscle with the help of technology and training techniques, but their skeletons and ligaments for the most part have stayed the same size. Look at all the injury problems in the NFL, or with baseball pitching. I will be the first to admit though that I wish drugs weren't as involved, and the industry is starting to police itself better lately.

[KD in CA]

Sounds like the trainer is starting to throw Desormeaux under the bus:

 

Jockey Kent Desormeaux eased up Big Brown with a quarter-mile remaining in the race, won by 38-1 long shot Da' Tara.

 

"I don't know why he had to do that," said Dutrow, who questioned Desormeaux's decisions in the race.

 

Entering the first turn, Desormeaux took a hard hold of Big Brown and yanked him to the outside, bumping with Anak Nakal before finding running room outside of Tale of Ekati while Da' Tara opened up a three-length lead around the clubhouse turn.

 

"I'm sure he didn't have any idea what the hell was going on going into the first turn the way [Desormeaux] was switching him all over the damn track," Dutrow said. "I don't know what he was doing."

 

Let's see....this is the same bum that got his once in a lifetime shot with Big Brown, talked sh-- non-stop for the last month, insulted the competition repeatedly, guarenteed a victory (who does that in a horse race?), and then apparently didn't have his horse in shape for the race. Gee, I'm shocked that he's trying to lay it off on the jockey. Oh yeah, and then he hides from the media after the race. What a jackoff, I'm glad he lost.

 

And I'd like to know what the owner thinks of Desormeaux easing the horse with a 1/2 mile to go. If BB was my $50MM ticket, I sure as hell wouldn't want to take the risk of pushing him to the wire at a distance he'd never run before in a race that was already lost.

[KD in CA]

Could all involved be talking 100% honestly, I guess so. All I know is we have a horse with the same exact problem and he did the same thing against a group of good horses. Same guy making the shoes, same vet. He came in 20 lengths behind when his foot went bad on him, then came back to run 3rd and 2nd in two races that he came back to run when his foot was "right". He was going to run Saturday in an earlier race, but he worked out last weekend and the foot was pinching him again. We could have had him raring to go, but the risk of him running the way Big Brown did wasn't worth it.

 

How many horses do you have? That must be a blast...something I would love to get into someday. Not cheap though, huh?

[LongLiveRalph]

On a side note, steroids had nothing to do with it. Those used are usually to help train and recover. By the time the horse races, the drugs have already done their job. It is a problem that drugs are so commonplace these days, but just like football players these horses are adding more and more weight and muscle with the help of technology and training techniques, but their skeletons and ligaments for the most part have stayed the same size. Look at all the injury problems in the NFL, or with baseball pitching. I will be the first to admit though that I wish drugs weren't as involved, and the industry is starting to police itself better lately.

 

Not sure how you can say that with such certainty...He's been getting Winstrol every 30 days since he started training...Then on May 15th, he doesn't receive an injection for the first time...And this is a horse who entered the Belmont with only FIVE CAREER RACES IN HIS LIFE, and was about to run for the THIRD TIME IN FIVE WEEKS at a mile-and-a-half.

 

He's had foot problems in the past. He had the same trainer and the same jockey. The weather could've had an effect, but that was the same for every horse. The only other difference was the Winstrol. I realize that the dosage for horses is much smaller (considering their mass) than what humans would take. But it still has an effect, or they wouldn't use it. To throw that out the window as a possible reason for his lack of usual explosion at the top of the stretch seems premature.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

Not sure how you can say that with such certainty...He's been getting Winstrol every 30 days since he started training...Then on May 15th, he doesn't receive an injection for the first time..

 

 

Winstrol's half-life is only 9 hours. Meaning, within a day it's effect diminishes to nothing and 3 days after injection it's effects have already run their coarse. Now unless they have some little known ester attached to it making it last longer, then I doubt the Winstrol really helped during any race. I do, however, think the Winstrol was meant to gradually build Big Brown's strength rather then win a race with an injection the night before.

 

Steroids are a science, each one does a different thing and stanzobol(winstrol) while widely used is a weak androgen and an injection every 30 days will show minimal effects. Therefore either Big Brown was getting a shot once every couple of days and this guy was lying or the Winstrol had very, very little to do with BB's loss.

[LongLiveRalph]

Winstrol's half-life is only 9 hours. Meaning, within a day it's effect diminishes to nothing and 3 days after injection it's effects have already run their coarse. Now unless they have some little known ester attached to it making it last longer, then I doubt the Winstrol really helped during any race. I do, however, think the Winstrol was meant to gradually build Big Brown's strength rather then win a race with an injection the night before.

 

Steroids are a science, each one does a different thing and stanzobol(winstrol) while widely used is a weak androgen and an injection every 30 days will show minimal effects. Therefore either Big Brown was getting a shot once every couple of days and this guy was lying or the Winstrol had very, very little to do with BB's loss.

 

Yes, good post...I'm aware of all that...However, with everyone scratching their heads about what possibly could have gone wrong for him, the Winstrol is the one bullet point where things were different from the way he approached previous races.

 

I personally don't think it mattered much either...He's 5-for-6 in his career, every horse typically has at least one outlier...I think he just had a bad day, simple as that...It's not an easy task to beat 39 of the best 3YO's in the world for the third time in five weeks, and especially tough to do it over 1.5 miles, and even tougher when you consider that the 2-1 he went off at in the Derby was his longest odds...He was definitely the horse with the bullseye on his back.

 

As for the stretch run, I can see both sides...He's a champion horse and I would've liked to have seen Desormeaux at least push him like a champion...Maybe halfway down the lane to see if he could at least challenge to hit the board...But at the same time, Desormeaux has repeatedly said that Big Brown is the best horse he's ever been on, and he wasn't going to jeopardize ANYTHING. He owes a lot to the horse as a professional, and if he felt that BB had no chance, then pulling him up is the right move. He likely would've finished last or thereabouts anyways with the way he was fading.

[Dwight Drane]

Winstrol's half-life is only 9 hours. Meaning, within a day it's effect diminishes to nothing and 3 days after injection it's effects have already run their coarse. Now unless they have some little known ester attached to it making it last longer, then I doubt the Winstrol really helped during any race. I do, however, think the Winstrol was meant to gradually build Big Brown's strength rather then win a race with an injection the night before.

 

Steroids are a science, each one does a different thing and stanzobol(winstrol) while widely used is a weak androgen and an injection every 30 days will show minimal effects. Therefore either Big Brown was getting a shot once every couple of days and this guy was lying or the Winstrol had very, very little to do with BB's loss.

 

Good post.

 

The steroids are used to build, support and heal as a horse grows and matures. The same things are used by bodybuilders. Now, some of these actually have direct medical benefit. Clenbuterol can be used in human stacking, and horses too, but it actually helps horses in breathing while training. Most of the steroids are banned for racing as it is. They are out of the horses system in 3-5 days after use. You have to be careful because you are allowed to train on these medications, but can't use them for the race. If you make an honest mistake and give a theraputic dose close to a race, you are still in trouble.

 

The steroid thing is just being thrown around in the media because most of these guys follow the sport 3 days a year and need to write about something. I warned Stojan about the foot the day he registered the domain, figuring he wouldn't make it to the Belmont. Their goal in January was to make it to the Derby then retire him. He did so well they went to the Preakness. Then they were almost obligated to run him in the Belmont if he wasn't at risk.

[Dwight Drane]

How many horses do you have? That must be a blast...something I would love to get into someday. Not cheap though, huh?

 

It's fun when things are going well, but stressful when things are slow. You watched on Saturday what the slightest difference in a horse can do to it's performance at times.

 

I don't train hands on. My job is more like Tom Modrak/Jim Overdorff/Perry Fewell all rolled into one. The main owner is pretty hands off and lets everyone do their job. I'll work with the trainers on a consistant basis for a gameplan and brainstorming, but I leave the micro aspects for them to decide. You would be amazed how similar the sport is to football with athleticism, injury, draft/auctions, etc.

 

They are expensive. A regular old horse can be kept at your home for $2,500 a year or so. An average racehorse costs about $20-$40,000 to train depending on the state and trainer. A good horse like Big Brown probably costs close to $100,000 to train because he'll get pampered with massage therapists, airplanes, night watchman, preventitive medication, etc. I laugh when PETA comes out and chirps, because if you come around a barn at 9 AM or so and see all the horses in various modes of being taken care of, a human would wish they had it so good. Come around at 1 PM and you'll see most horses taking a nap after a full meal with fans on them in the summer or a blanket on in the winter. They usually have an open source of food to munch on when in full training and I try to keep some toys nearby to prevent boredom when most of the humans leave. Sure there are some idiots that don't take care of their horses as well, but if they were in a different business, they wouldn't treat their employees well either.

 

If you ever see silks that look like the Bills throwback jerseys, that is me. I asked the Bills for permission, but they never responded to me. I changed up the Buffalo a little bit so they can't get PO'd. You'll see those down in Florida mainly. In New York you are forced to wear the silks of the majority owner, so that usually isn't me!

[Ramius]

It's fun when things are going well, but stressful when things are slow. You watched on Saturday what the slightest difference in a horse can do to it's performance at times.

 

I don't train hands on. My job is more like Tom Modrak/Jim Overdorff/Perry Fewell all rolled into one. The main owner is pretty hands off and lets everyone do their job. I'll work with the trainers on a consistant basis for a gameplan and brainstorming, but I leave the micro aspects for them to decide. You would be amazed how similar the sport is to football with athleticism, injury, draft/auctions, etc.

 

They are expensive. A regular old horse can be kept at your home for $2,500 a year or so. An average racehorse costs about $20-$40,000 to train depending on the state and trainer. A good horse like Big Brown probably costs close to $100,000 to train because he'll get pampered with massage therapists, airplanes, night watchman, preventitive medication, etc. I laugh when PETA comes out and chirps, because if you come around a barn at 9 AM or so and see all the horses in various modes of being taken care of, a human would wish they had it so good. Come around at 1 PM and you'll see most horses taking a nap after a full meal with fans on them in the summer or a blanket on in the winter. They usually have an open source of food to munch on when in full training and I try to keep some toys nearby to prevent boredom when most of the humans leave. Sure there are some idiots that don't take care of their horses as well, but if they were in a different business, they wouldn't treat their employees well either.

 

If you ever see silks that look like the Bills throwback jerseys, that is me. I asked the Bills for permission, but they never responded to me. I changed up the Buffalo a little bit so they can't get PO'd. You'll see those down in Florida mainly. In New York you are forced to wear the silks of the majority owner, so that usually isn't me!

 

Sounds cool. where in florida do you race/ have stables?

[Fan in San Diego]

It's fun when things are going well, but stressful when things are slow. You watched on Saturday what the slightest difference in a horse can do to it's performance at times.

 

I don't train hands on. My job is more like Tom Modrak/Jim Overdorff/Perry Fewell all rolled into one. The main owner is pretty hands off and lets everyone do their job. I'll work with the trainers on a consistant basis for a gameplan and brainstorming, but I leave the micro aspects for them to decide. You would be amazed how similar the sport is to football with athleticism, injury, draft/auctions, etc.

 

They are expensive. A regular old horse can be kept at your home for $2,500 a year or so. An average racehorse costs about $20-$40,000 to train depending on the state and trainer. A good horse like Big Brown probably costs close to $100,000 to train because he'll get pampered with massage therapists, airplanes, night watchman, preventitive medication, etc. I laugh when PETA comes out and chirps, because if you come around a barn at 9 AM or so and see all the horses in various modes of being taken care of, a human would wish they had it so good. Come around at 1 PM and you'll see most horses taking a nap after a full meal with fans on them in the summer or a blanket on in the winter. They usually have an open source of food to munch on when in full training and I try to keep some toys nearby to prevent boredom when most of the humans leave. Sure there are some idiots that don't take care of their horses as well, but if they were in a different business, they wouldn't treat their employees well either.

 

If you ever see silks that look like the Bills throwback jerseys, that is me. I asked the Bills for permission, but they never responded to me. I changed up the Buffalo a little bit so they can't get PO'd. You'll see those down in Florida mainly. In New York you are forced to wear the silks of the majority owner, so that usually isn't me!

 

Which tracks do you race at ?

[eball]

Drane, I've enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. I don't know jack schitt about horse racing and this has been very enlightening.

[Dwight Drane]

We run in New York....Belmont/Aqueduct/Saratoga and down in South Florida Calder/Gulfstream. There is a pretty good fight going on in Florida now between the owner of Calder which is Churchill Downs, and the Horsemen themselves. The track is trying to give a tiny share of internet wagering compared to a regular share of $$ wagered at the track or at a simulcast. It's real hardball now and they cut purses 30-60% on the horsemen to try and get them to cave. We moved all the good horses to New York and only the clunkers are in Florida for now.

 

We have shipped horses to Kentucky, Delaware, Illinois, Texas, Ontario, but only for small stints. It's a good excuse to go see part of the country though.

 

The best thing I could suggest for anyone local would be to go to Saratoga in the middle of summer. You can find a decent priced hotel in Albany which is 30 minutes away, or stay in town if you don't mind giving away the wallet. You can go to the track in the morning and have breakfast as you watch them train. As for the actual races, you can get dressed in a suit and go buy some seats in the clubhouse, or you can come in a t-shirt and bring your own tailgate/picnic inside and set up a post near a TV and watch all the people and horses go by. Or anything in-between. Saratoga is the reason most people run horses. Everyone tries to bring their best horses there and have a good ol' time. A lot of horsepeople wake up at 4am to get to the track and stay until 7pm after the last race is done and the horses are cooled down.

 

I've never been to Del Mar, but something tells me SD has. That looks to be an even more laid back Saratoga.

 

I'll let people know when we run a little guy I bought as a baby for real cheap. When we brought him back to the farm, he tried to mount every other horse in the pasture. He has a decent pedigree, but is small. I named him Beast Mode. I doubt he'll be a world beater, but when he is ready to run, you can plunk a few bucks on him if he's training well. I hate giving tips otherwise because I've learned that the more you think you know what is going to happen, the more you get burned. We've run in some big races that I let family or friends know is on TV, then when we come in 4th or 7th, I get to hear how much $ they lost. Now I don't tell anyone a thing!

[Pete]

I go to Saratoga every August. I will look for the Bills silks! I always bring my Bills cup on that trip- so if you see a Bills cup- that's probably me.

 

I too enjoy all your posts in this thread Dwight- very enlightening!

[Dwight Drane]

I go to Saratoga every August. I will look for the Bills silks! I always bring my Bills cup on that trip- so if you see a Bills cup- that's probably me.

 

I too enjoy all your posts in this thread Dwight- very enlightening!

 

Good deal! Depending how long I am there, I'll try hooking up with some of the Bills fans. It seems as if a few Saratoga threads always break out. Last year we went the entire summer without running one horse at Saratoga because everyone in NY was in some form of recovery or training and nobody was running. This year looks much better, and there is a good chance we can have anywhere from 4-6 horses run.

 

I enjoy talking about the track because it seems too many people get scared off by it. The more they understand, the more of a chance they will go and have a good time. The best part about it is that every day is different and you are always learning something new about a specific horse of yours or just in general. Even the best at this only win 25% of the time. I think if there was some way to convey the personalities of some of these horses that the people around them every day get to see, the sport would be much more popular. Unlike football, when a horse comes back from a race and just made everybody millions of dollars, thousands of dollars, or no dollars, all the good hearted ones want is a scratch, or a peppermint, or to play around for a few minutes. It's really like sending your family pet out there, and he tries to make you some money. Many people just see an animal as an animal, but my best asset has been picking horses for their intelligence and personality. A smart horse knows what you want it to do, and figures everything out much quicker. You sort of end up with an unsaid understanding of each other. It's a wierd phenomenon, but anyone that has been around horses in general can tell you about that bond if they pick up on it.

 

Now enough of me glamorizing this....time to figure out how the hell to pay this month's feed bill!

[stuckincincy]

Good deal! Depending how long I am there, I'll try hooking up with some of the Bills fans. It seems as if a few Saratoga threads always break out. Last year we went the entire summer without running one horse at Saratoga because everyone in NY was in some form of recovery or training and nobody was running. This year looks much better, and there is a good chance we can have anywhere from 4-6 horses run.

 

I enjoy talking about the track because it seems too many people get scared off by it. The more they understand, the more of a chance they will go and have a good time. The best part about it is that every day is different and you are always learning something new about a specific horse of yours or just in general. Even the best at this only win 25% of the time. I think if there was some way to convey the personalities of some of these horses that the people around them every day get to see, the sport would be much more popular. Unlike football, when a horse comes back from a race and just made everybody millions of dollars, thousands of dollars, or no dollars, all the good hearted ones want is a scratch, or a peppermint, or to play around for a few minutes. It's really like sending your family pet out there, and he tries to make you me money. Many people just see an animal as an animal, but my best asset has been picking horses for their intelligence and personality. A smart horse knows what you want it to do, and figures everything out much quicker. You sort of end up with an unsaid understanding of each other. It's a wierd phenomenon, but anyone that has been around horses in general can tell you about that bond if they pick up on it.

 

Now enough of me glamorizing this....time to figure out how the hell to pay this month's feed bill!

 

I wish they had OTB in Ohio. When I lived in PA, they had Dial-a-Bet. Money up front, of course.

 

I'm not a big gambler by any means, and I don't study the ponies - but on a race card of 12 horses, my odds are 1 to 12 that I'll get back at least my original investment. Far better than any State's lottery.

 

I like the harness tracks. Advice given to me years ago still holds - bet the year's favorite jockey at that track.

 

10 years ago or so, I asked a barfly friend of mine what he thought of the push to put slots machines at the track. I thought it would help them out...the gambling outfits still want this, as does our current Ohio Governor - more revenue for the State coffers (Ted Strickland - D. He was in office for a few months when he bitched about lottery payouts, and demanded that the odds of a win be reduced.).

 

My friend was - surprisingly - stridently opposed to slots at the racetracks. Because he said that if that happened, his wife would demand to tag along.

 

I immediately saw his point.

[Fan in San Diego]

We run in New York....Belmont/Aqueduct/Saratoga and down in South Florida Calder/Gulfstream. There is a pretty good fight going on in Florida now between the owner of Calder which is Churchill Downs, and the Horsemen themselves. The track is trying to give a tiny share of internet wagering compared to a regular share of $$ wagered at the track or at a simulcast. It's real hardball now and they cut purses 30-60% on the horsemen to try and get them to cave. We moved all the good horses to New York and only the clunkers are in Florida for now.

 

We have shipped horses to Kentucky, Delaware, Illinois, Texas, Ontario, but only for small stints. It's a good excuse to go see part of the country though.

 

The best thing I could suggest for anyone local would be to go to Saratoga in the middle of summer. You can find a decent priced hotel in Albany which is 30 minutes away, or stay in town if you don't mind giving away the wallet. You can go to the track in the morning and have breakfast as you watch them train. As for the actual races, you can get dressed in a suit and go buy some seats in the clubhouse, or you can come in a t-shirt and bring your own tailgate/picnic inside and set up a post near a TV and watch all the people and horses go by. Or anything in-between. Saratoga is the reason most people run horses. Everyone tries to bring their best horses there and have a good ol' time. A lot of horsepeople wake up at 4am to get to the track and stay until 7pm after the last race is done and the horses are cooled down.

 

I've never been to Del Mar, but something tells me SD has. That looks to be an even more laid back Saratoga.

 

I'll let people know when we run a little guy I bought as a baby for real cheap. When we brought him back to the farm, he tried to mount every other horse in the pasture. He has a decent pedigree, but is small. I named him Beast Mode. I doubt he'll be a world beater, but when he is ready to run, you can plunk a few bucks on him if he's training well. I hate giving tips otherwise because I've learned that the more you think you know what is going to happen, the more you get burned. We've run in some big races that I let family or friends know is on TV, then when we come in 4th or 7th, I get to hear how much $ they lost. Now I don't tell anyone a thing!

 

Yes, this is a great thread. The best in a long time. I cut my teeth at Fort Erie. You know Fort Erie still has one of the best infields around. Gorgeous with three lakes and lots of landscaping. Woodbine of course.

Here in SoCal I follow Santa Anita, Hollywood and Del Mar. Del Mar's season is way to short, but really big purses. Are you ever going to ship horses to the SoCall circuit? If so, let me know we can get together.