Bill from NYC Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 I remember many on this board that wanted Rob. Myself, I was a Flutie fan. Not me. I supported RJ because of his mobility and great arm. It didn't matter that he was losing. He had big time talent, so I thought he either was better than Flutie, or woud be......some day. Sound familiar?
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 Not me. I supported RJ because of his mobility and great arm. It didn't matter that he was losing. He had big time talent, so I thought he either was better than Flutie, or woud be......some day. Sound familiar? Yeah sounds familiar, you chose a loser in the RJ/ Flutie debate ............ now you choose Trent over JP........... You draw your conclusions from that, & I will draw mine.
Bill from NYC Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 Yeah sounds familiar, you chose a loser in the RJ/ Flutie debate ............ now you choose Trent over JP........... You draw your conclusions from that, & I will draw mine. Nice response, I must say. Tell me, do you think that JP will ever reach the .500 mark in games that he starts, assuming he gets enough starts to do so?
colin Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 rj did play better than jp, with a lesser line as well. jp suffers from injuries and frequent sacks, just like rj did. jp is also a turnover machine and for the longest time would put up less than 100 yards more often than not, and rj never lost his job due to bad play, but only due to injury. jp loses out to bad play a bunch.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 No, I am not a doctor but one doesn't need an MD to gain a simple understanding of excercize physiology, kinesiology, and anatomy over the years. You don't need an MD to do research and gain knowledge. I don't profess to be an expert, just someone who has needed to put some time in to gain an understanding in these areas. But if it makes YOU feel better consult an MD, preferably one who is current in the field of sports medicine to see if what I'm saying is baseless or not. Regarding the body type argument, one can simply base this on simple observation of both players both in shirt sleeves and shorts while closely watching their movements during the course of several practices. Heck, you can even tell a lot by watching them in pads in games. The bolded part is complete and utter BS from both a medical and statistical point of view. Again, consult an MD if you like, but unless you're discussing something like consussion syndrome, there is no predisposition. Do you know for a fact that Edwards has some such syndrome in his past? You bet your ass the Bills medical staff knows. As for the game tapes, I have limited access to both NFL coaches tape and some college tape. I asked someone for a favor on some Edwards clips and got lucky. I've been asked about this before and suffice it to say I am simply not at liberty to share them. Indeed I can't even keep them for more than a few days. Call that BS (as some have) but I'm ok with that. I understand. I'd be skeptical, too. I'm still waiting for your honest answer to my YOU KNOW WHO question. If he were the starter would he or wouldn't he have the same statistical chance as Edwards of getting hurt at some point in the season? He defied the odds in '06. But he got hurt in every other pro season. I say yes. As I would to nearly EVERY QB in the league. You want to ignore that because Edwards is simply not your choice for QB. GO BILLS!!! After asking me if I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, or played a doctor on TV, you gave the impression of being an expert, go reread your post. It is a fact some players are more predisposed to injury than others, go ask a doctor. There is a reason Trent was available in the 3rd round, it was his history of INJURIES. The Bills front office felt the potential reward was worth the risk at that point in the draft, that is why he was drafted by the Bills. As far as the game tapes go, I don't know you, you could be a BIG BS artist, or a stand up truthful guy, in which case I am very jealous. I addressed the YOU KNOW WHO question in a previous post. I said I would not want ANY player at any position to receive a long term big money deal if their health was in question, that includes JP. As I said in a previous post is I would like to see Trent develop more on the field & show the ability to stay healthy before the Bills reward him with a BIG contract. Is that being unreasonable?
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 Nice response, I must say. Tell me, do you think that JP will ever reach the .500 mark in games that he starts, assuming he gets enough starts to do so? Thanks for the compliment. It is nice to debate another with differing opinions, that feels no need to bash, & insult because we have different opinions on one subject. I think the vast majority on this board would agree on most things Bills related except for the QB's & coaching staff, there is no need for all the rancor & insults. I think & hope for his sake, because I do like him, that JP if put in the right situation, with a good team around him, & a coaching staff that plays to his strengths will become a good QB, at the very least a TOP NOTCH back up. I think he is capable of being much more than a .500 QB in the right situation.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 rj did play better than jp, with a lesser line as well. jp suffers from injuries and frequent sacks, just like rj did. jp is also a turnover machine and for the longest time would put up less than 100 yards more often than not, and rj never lost his job due to bad play, but only due to injury. jp loses out to bad play a bunch. I would disagree about the O-line, except for last year, they SUCKED equally. The rest of the team RJ was on was vastly superior to any JP has been on thus far.To compare Rob & JP you left out one VERY IMPORTANT equation, the coaching staff. RJ had much better coaching, yes I'm including Joe Pendry, than JP ever had on the Bills. It is impossible to say how JP would have fared on that team, but we do know ROB was OUTPLAYED by the MAGIC MAN Doug Flutie.
bills4bowl21 Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 His numbers that year were 19-14 and about 2600 yds, but they didn't come close to winning ten games. His stats were very deceiving. There would be no comparison. If Buffalo wins ten games this year and he has a 3000yd+ season, he will be signed long term, particularly if they make the playoffs. Keep in mind, he was a rookie last year playing on a five year contract. No need to rush to judgment. theres only so much jp could have done to win games...team as a whole is much better now...
Hanoverbills Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 rj did play better than jp, with a lesser line as well. jp suffers from injuries and frequent sacks, just like rj did. jp is also a turnover machine and for the longest time would put up less than 100 yards more often than not, and rj never lost his job due to bad play, but only due to injury. jp loses out to bad play a bunch. J.P. average 190 yrds the only year he started.Tom Bradys first full year as a starter with a better overall team ''63.9 com. pct,2843 yds.18 tds,12 int.41 sacks and 14 fumbles".Very similer to Losmans only year as a starter with lest talent''62.5 com. pct.,3051 yds.,19 tds.,14 int.47 sacks and 13 fumbles".I'm not saying Losmans is Brady,But its funny how similer they're first year as starters were.
K-9 Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 After asking me if I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, or played a doctor on TV, you gave the impression of being an expert, go reread your post. It is a fact some players are more predisposed to injury than others, go ask a doctor. There is a reason Trent was available in the 3rd round, it was his history of INJURIES. The Bills front office felt the potential reward was worth the risk at that point in the draft, that is why he was drafted by the Bills. As far as the game tapes go, I don't know you, you could be a BIG BS artist, or a stand up truthful guy, in which case I am very jealous. I addressed the YOU KNOW WHO question in a previous post. I said I would not want ANY player at any position to receive a long term big money deal if their health was in question, that includes JP. As I said in a previous post is I would like to see Trent develop more on the field & show the ability to stay healthy before the Bills reward him with a BIG contract. Is that being unreasonable? The ONLY factor that makes Edwards or ANY other QB predisposed to injury (not the same term as injury "prone" BTW) is the very fact that they ARE NFL QBs. Period. Unless you're talking about something like concussion syndrome which I've already mentioned a few times. I think it's you that needs to ask a doctor what the difference is between an occupational hazard and being predisposed to unjury. I must have missed the YOU KNOW WHO answer. But if you actually admitted that JP is just at risk for injury as Edwards, then I accept that. Short of that then we'll will have to agree to disagree. It is certainly NOT unreasonable for the Bills to wait for Trent to show marked improvement on the field before they extend him. I would wait until after '09. But that's a different thing than getting hurt. GO BILLS!!!
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 theres only so much jp could have done to win games...team as a whole is much better now... You just don't get it. It's JP's fault, not St. Jauron.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 Not me. I supported RJ because of his mobility and great arm. It didn't matter that he was losing. He had big time talent, so I thought he either was better than Flutie, or woud be......some day. Sound familiar? RJ had mobility and great arm? Rob Deer in the headlights Johnson .. or would be... lol Look people. The Bills made a decision. After 4 years and 2 full seasons as a starter the Bills brain trust has moved on. Trent is the starter until he fails. Crying about pool JP isn't doing anyone any good.
Adam Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 rj did play better than jp, with a lesser line as well. jp suffers from injuries and frequent sacks, just like rj did. jp is also a turnover machine and for the longest time would put up less than 100 yards more often than not, and rj never lost his job due to bad play, but only due to injury. jp loses out to bad play a bunch. JP should just be getting on the field now. He was drafted as a project, but started in year two because the front office listened to a drunk bunch of fans. We should have kept Bledsoe and left JP on the bench until he was ready. Now we are making the same terrible mistake with Trent.
Gordio Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 JP should just be getting on the field now. He was drafted as a project, but started in year two because the front office listened to a drunk bunch of fans. We should have kept Bledsoe and left JP on the bench until he was ready. Now we are making the same terrible mistake with Trent. This is what I do not understand. You think in year 5, JP's last yera under contract he should be just getting on the field now? No team in the league drafts a 1st round player at any position with the mind set that we will pay them a first round salary, have the player sit on the pine for 4 yrs while learning how to play the game & then in his last year of his contract, in year 5, lets give him a shot & see how he does. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of on this board & that is saying something.
Gordio Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 One more thing, my guess is if he was not hurt in his first year, when the bills seemed out of the playoffs at 2-6, my guess is he would of seen the field then & they would of benched Bledsoe at that time.
Adam Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 This is what I do not understand. You think in year 5, JP's last yera under contract he should be just getting on the field now? No team in the league drafts a 1st round player at any position with the mind set that we will pay them a first round salary, have the player sit on the pine for 4 yrs while learning how to play the game & then in his last year of his contract, in year 5, lets give him a shot & see how he does. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of on this board & that is saying something. Well, we took a project in the first round. David Garrard took five years to develop (not saying that Losman is as good). You don't get instant gratification in this league. If thats what you want, watch MTV, not football.
thebug Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 This is what I do not understand. You think in year 5, JP's last yera under contract he should be just getting on the field now? No team in the league drafts a 1st round player at any position with the mind set that we will pay them a first round salary, have the player sit on the pine for 4 yrs while learning how to play the game & then in his last year of his contract, in year 5, lets give him a shot & see how he does. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of on this board & that is saying something. I guess the JP excuse well has run dry? GO BILLS!
thebug Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 Well, we took a project in the first round. David Garrard took five years to develop (not saying that Losman is as good). You don't get instant gratification in this league. If thats what you want, watch MTV, not football. Did it take him 5 years to develop or did it take him 5 years to get a chance to show what he can do? GO BILLS!
Bill from NYC Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 Well, we took a project in the first round. David Garrard took five years to develop (not saying that Losman is as good). You don't get instant gratification in this league. If thats what you want, watch MTV, not football. Adam, that "project" also cost us a 2nd and a 5th.
Gordio Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 Well, we took a project in the first round. David Garrard took five years to develop (not saying that Losman is as good). You don't get instant gratification in this league. If thats what you want, watch MTV, not football. Im not trying to give you a tough time but wasnt Gerrard LIke a 4th round pick. Poor comparison. You can not draft a guy in the first round & expect them to sit on the bench for four years especially for a guy that you gave up multiple draft picks for. Noway when Donahoe drafted him his mind set was, "well this is a project, we wont see this guy on the field until 2008.
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