Hypothetical Question

[silvermike]

OK...3rd and goal, 9-6 BUF leading 10-5 NE 20-16 with :35 seconds to play...Brady has the ball at our 7, who do you want rushing him Kelsey/McCargo/Johnston/Schobel or Taylor/McCargo/Johnston/Schobel?

 

I'd like to have Marcus Stroud on the field personally.

[bills_fan]

So jason taylor is the only thing standing between the Bills and the playoffs? Really?

Sorry but unless you can convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this will be a playoff-caliber offense RIGHT NOW (here's a hint: you can't), then there's no point giving away a first round pick for a guy with 1 or 2 years left.

 

 

I wouldn't even dream of trying with respect to our offense. Our defense, on the other hand, will be playoff claiber IMHO and could be championship caliber if we added Taylor.

[gus2378]

OK...3rd and goal, 9-6 BUF leading 10-5 NE 20-16 with :35 seconds to play...Brady has the ball at our 7, who do you want rushing him Kelsey/McCargo/Johnston/Schobel or Taylor/McCargo/Johnston/Schobel?

What if there are only :33 seconds left? Can I change my answer? How about if they are on our 12 yard line, not the 7?

Sorry, I know I am being overly sarcastic but you are assuming a LOT setting up that scenario ... not the least of which is where the hell do you see New England losing 5 games on that schedule?

Yeah, taylor would make the defense better, but a lot of other things are way too up in the air to go handing out first-round picks.

While we are making up scenarios, what if you make the deal and Edwards bombs? Or gets hurt? And now you are looking for your QB of the future and have no first-round pick? That's just as likely to happen as your scenario above.

[gus2378]

I wouldn't even dream of trying with respect to our offense. Our defense, on the other hand, will be playoff claiber IMHO and could be championship caliber if we added Taylor.

Great ... well as long as we can somehow play with someone else's offense to go with our championship defense, I guess I will agree with you.

EDIT: and I DO agree about the defense, i think it is playoff caliber this year.

[bills_fan]

What if there are only :33 seconds left? Can I change my answer? How about if they are on our 12 yard line, not the 7?

Sorry, I know I am being overly sarcastic but you are assuming a LOT setting up that scenario ... not the least of which is where the hell do you see New England losing 5 games on that schedule?

Yeah, taylor would make the defense better, but a lot of other things are way too up in the air to go handing out first-round picks.

While we are making up scenarios, what if you make the deal and Edwards bombs? Or gets hurt? And now you are looking for your QB of the future and have no first-round pick? That's just as likely to happen as your scenario above.

 

 

You make good points. I just saw the way to beat Brady is to hit him early and often. I have never seen Brady look as rattled and defeated as he did in the SB. We don't have all the rushers needed for this strategy and I'm sick of losing 32-10. Stroud and Schobel are not young, Crowell is a FA after the season. Lets get after the Pats* and take the division. Our team needs a little leadership and if the D is championship caliber, it can buy time for the passing game to grow. I have little concerns with respect to the running game, bringing our OL back intact with Lynch and a FB will be the way we control a game. Strong running game and championship level defense is always a pretty good formula.

[gus2378]

You make good points. I just saw the way to beat Brady is to hit him early and often. I have never seen Brady look as rattled and defeated as he did in the SB. We don't have all the rushers needed for this strategy and I'm sick of losing 32-10. Stroud and Schobel are not young, Crowell is a FA after the season. Lets get after the Pats* and take the division. Our team needs a little leadership and if the D is championship caliber, it can buy time for the passing game to grow. I have little concerns with respect to the running game, bringing our OL back intact with Lynch and a FB will be the way we control a game. Strong running game and championship level defense is always a pretty good formula.

I hear ya ... I guess after the Bledsoe/Milloy/Vincent/Donahoe Era I am just very gun shy to the idea of trying to find a quick fix.

[colin]

he just won't play for long enough to put us over the top.

 

i think ellis might impress some people. too bad we didn't draft allen in the 6th as a long snappe a few years ago!

[Orton's Arm]

Would you do it? Taylor can still bring it and would instantly provide some solid veteran leadership to our D. He's unhappy with Parcells, Parcells would have no hesitation about a division trade...he just wants more picks. What do you think?

 

I'd go for it.

 

 

Article that got me thinking about this

The Bills should not give up a first round draft pick for a DE who will be turning 34 this September. Doing that would be an even bigger mistake than the Bledsoe trade.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

NO freaking Way. I am not sure what next years draft looks like but I just dont see giving up a first for a guy that might have 3 years left in the tank.

[Ozymandius]

The Bills made this deal once before ... it was the Drew Bledsoe deal. He played well at first, but the rest of the team was not ready to be anything more than 8-8. Then his play declined. This would play out much the same way ... even if Taylor accepted it and showed up to play a part-time role rushing the passer, it's unlikely he is the missing piece to a Super Bowl run. In a couple years when maybe the talent and experience is there for that, he will be too old to contribute and the Bills will have helped rebuild their biggest rival.

 

All your posts in this thread have been excellent.

 

You have it exactly right. If the Bills were already a playoff team, a perennial contender that is just ONE PLAYER AWAY, that player being a DE, then yes, you would consider that deal, assuming Jason Taylor even wants to play football right now. But the Bills are at a different point in their playoff development. We're trying to become a perennial contender, and we need to first make a playoff appearance for the first time in 9 years. You can't make that trade until you know your team foundation is sound, until you're just "one player away."

[IDBillzFan]

OK...3rd and goal, 9-6 BUF leading 10-5 NE 20-16 with :35 seconds to play...Brady has the ball at our 7, who do you want rushing him Kelsey/McCargo/Johnston/Schobel or Taylor/McCargo/Johnston/Schobel?

That depends...who has been on the field and managed to hold NE to six whole points for the first 59:25 minutes?

[Spiderweb]

Some of you make me laugh....draft picks are gold and every one is the next pro bowl whatever right? How many 1st rounders do we have from the last 8 years who will start for us this year? 3...Whitner, Lynch and Evans.

 

How many times has Jason Taylor beaten the Pats* in the last 8 years....how many times have we?

 

We have 4 DEs...right, we may have one in Schobel. The others are solid players, not difference makers. Taylor won the Defensive MVP of the league two years ago. Who was the last Bill to get individual league-wide honors?

 

Taylor, yeah, he wants a career in Hollywood. If he gets the Bills to the playoffs and takes down Brady on national TV, he'd raise his profile a lot right?

 

You'd get 2 good years out of him and one mediocre. Thats more good years than any of the 1st round picks we made this decade (save Lynch or Whitner, too young to tell on either). Think about that.

 

I'd be all for offering Miami our #2, but if it took the #1...go for it.

 

Sorry, but age, upside (?? He's too old to have any, it's all downhill from here), etc. all equal; bad math. He's not worth a 1st or a 2nd, and even a 3rd is a tad high. Great career JT, see ya around...

[gus2378]

Not to pile on, because I think bills_fan started to see our point in his last post ... but Don Banks wrote this today on SI.com ...

I'm no big fan of Parcells' penchant for Jedi mind tricks, but what kind of greeting did Taylor really expect from a guy who has always been all about football? All Parcells knows about Taylor at this point is that he's more intent on launching his Hollywood post-playing career than he is preparing for the '08 season. Not showing your face around the Dolphins' complex except for a drive-by meet and greet isn't going to earn Parcells' respect.

 

When Taylor wants to act like an active and committed player who still has football as his top priority, Parcells will likely accord him the status he has earned within the Miami organization. But if Taylor deems it more important to make like the retired Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice and dance his offseason away, he shouldn't expect Parcells to applaud the whole silly show.

The bold part is exactly right, and would also apply to the idea of trading for him. What kind of example is that for a young team?

[Steely Dan]

or more like a 4th even

 

If he shows up then a seventh with a chance to become a sixth.

 

Some of you make me laugh....draft picks are gold and every one is the next pro bowl whatever right? How many 1st rounders do we have from the last 8 years who will start for us this year? 3...Whitner, Lynch and Evans.

 

How many times has Jason Taylor beaten the Pats* in the last 8 years....how many times have we?

 

We have 4 DEs...right, we may have one in Schobel. The others are solid players, not difference makers. Taylor won the Defensive MVP of the league two years ago. Who was the last Bill to get individual league-wide honors?

 

Taylor, yeah, he wants a career in Hollywood. If he gets the Bills to the playoffs and takes down Brady on national TV, he'd raise his profile a lot right?

 

You'd get 2 good years out of him and one mediocre. Thats more good years than any of the 1st round picks we made this decade (save Lynch or Whitner, too young to tell on either). Think about that.

 

I'd be all for offering Miami our #2, but if it took the #1...go for it.

 

Yeah, the last eight years?

 

Mods, can we make a rule about not smoking crack before posting?

[Orton's Arm]

Some of you make me laugh....draft picks are gold and every one is the next pro bowl whatever right? How many 1st rounders do we have from the last 8 years who will start for us this year? 3...Whitner, Lynch and Evans.

The reason why the Bills have so few first round picks from that era is because of TD's unwillingness or inability to build a long-term core. Look what he did with his first round picks:

 

2001: Nate Clements. A good football player whom TD allowed to go first contract and out. TD could have avoided drafting a CB by extending Antoine Winfield.

2002: Mike Williams. Bust.

2003 a: traded for Drew Bledsoe. Released after three years.

2003 b: Willis McGahee. Drafted to replace Travis Henry, who'd been taken just two years earlier. TD seemed to like spending high draft picks on players who wouldn't last very long, either because of first contract and out, or because of the position they played.

2004 a: Lee Evans. The lone TD first round pick who's a starter for this team

2004 b: Losman. Bust.

2005: no first round pick

 

So there you have it. Two first round picks used on busts, two more used on short-term good only players (Bledsoe and McGahee), one used on a first contract and out CB; and just one used on a (hopefully) long-term answer at starter (Lee Evans).

 

Compare all that to the New England Patr*ots.

 

2001: Richard Seymour, DT

2002: Daniel Graham, TE (bust)

2003: Ty Warren, DE

2004 a: Vince Wilfork, NT

2004 b: Benjamin Watson, TE

2005: Logan Mankins, G

 

All those guys except for Daniel Graham are still on New England's roster; and most of them are very solid starters or even Pro Bowl level players. That's the way first round picks should be used--to build a long-term core of solid football players.

[eball]

I gotta say, bills_fan, this is an odd argument upon which to be staking a hard position. Others (gus, in particular) have already stated it eloquently, but the Bills have not proven themselves to be close enough to the promised land to waste next year's 1st rounder on a guy whose dedication is in question and whose age is on the wrong side of 34.

[Steely Dan]

The reason why the Bills have so few first round picks from that era is because of TD's unwillingness or inability to build a long-term core. Look what he did with his first round picks:

 

2001: Nate Clements. A good football player whom TD allowed to go first contract and out. TD could have avoided drafting a CB by extending Antoine Winfield.

2002: Mike Williams. Bust.

2003 a: traded for Drew Bledsoe. Released after three years.

2003 b: Willis McGahee. Drafted to replace Travis Henry, who'd been taken just two years earlier. TD seemed to like spending high draft picks on players who wouldn't last very long, either because of first contract and out, or because of the position they played.

2004 a: Lee Evans. The lone TD first round pick who's a starter for this team

2004 b: Losman. Bust.

2005: no first round pick

 

So there you have it. Two first round picks used on busts, two more used on short-term good only players (Bledsoe and McGahee), one used on a first contract and out CB; and just one used on a (hopefully) long-term answer at starter (Lee Evans).

 

Compare all that to the New England Patr*ots.

 

2001: Richard Seymour, DT

2002: Daniel Graham, TE (bust)

2003: Ty Warren, DE

2004 a: Vince Wilfork, NT

2004 b: Benjamin Watson, TE

2005: Logan Mankins, G

 

All those guys except for Daniel Graham are still on New England's roster; and most of them are very solid starters or even Pro Bowl level players. That's the way first round picks should be used--to build a long-term core of solid football players.

 

[bills_fan]

I gotta say, bills_fan, this is an odd argument upon which to be staking a hard position. Others (gus, in particular) have already stated it eloquently, but the Bills have not proven themselves to be close enough to the promised land to waste next year's 1st rounder on a guy whose dedication is in question and whose age is on the wrong side of 34.

 

 

My position is not that hard, notice the hypothetical question.

 

Gus2378 really made some good points, primarily about us not being one player away, although I think the net effect of Taylor coming to Buffalo only two years removed from NFL defensive player of the year would be a positive in several ways. More Junior Seau/Rodney Harrison to the Pats* than Bledsoe to the Bills.

 

He has been a very good football player and would give us another pass rusher, again, if committed. I just have visions of us going into that last game 9-6 and getting waxed again by NE* because we let Brady sit in the pocket all day.

[beausox]

No. No Damn no. The days of Donahoe big splash no wake is over

[Simon]

One of the most over-rated players in the entire history of the NFL.

No thanx.