who tinkled in Jerry's cornflakes this a.m. J.P.?

[thebug]

Trent did not WIN the starting job - It was given to him so Ralph wouln't have to pay JP his bonus. He also PLAYED more games. I can see how much the weather affected opposing QB's- THEY WON

 

 

 

Your best yet! and that's saying something.... JP will you still post here when you are gone? I hope so...

[keepthefaith]

he won the starting job that losman lost.

 

he also won more games.

 

keep in mind the weather impact on the numbers -- you can see how much they affected opposing qbs.

 

the first line explains everything you need to know tho.

 

The first line is true. What's also true is that the Bills upgraded the offensive line last season, added a talented RB and chose to start a rookie QB in most of the games. The end result, a franchise low 20 touchdowns scored and an offense that ranked close to last in the league. All this against a shedule featuring some really bad teams. With those results, how could anyone question the QB decision?

[Orton's Arm]

We are having a conversation, and we can disagree during that conversation provided the premise of your side makes sense. Like Ramius said, Revis was blitzing on virtually every down. Suddenly quarterbacks change and the offense is effective because the Jets are tired?

 

I must be the only one who thought that analogy was something of a stretch.

 

No harm, no foul.

To be honest, I'd forgotten about all those blitzes until you and Ramius reminded me of them. Not that those blitzes are something I like being reminded of.

 

But I remember now. The standard-issue play was for some blitzing Jets defender to get to the QB untouched, on practically every pass play. As a Bills fan, I'm something of a connoisseur of bad pass protection, and that was some of the worst I've ever seen.

 

The quality of pass protection got better as the game went on. Maybe the main factor causing the improvement was the Jets choosing to blitz less often. Or maybe the main factor was the Bills doing a better job of blitz pickup.

 

The Jets defenders getting tired might have been a secondary factor. In most football games, it's easier to score points in the 4th quarter (when the defense is tired) than in the 1st quarter.

[bizell]

To be honest, I'd forgotten about all those blitzes until you and Ramius reminded me of them. Not that those blitzes are something I like being reminded of.

 

But I remember now. The standard-issue play was for some blitzing Jets defender to get to the QB untouched, on practically every pass play. As a Bills fan, I'm something of a connoisseur of bad pass protection, and that was some of the worst I've ever seen.

 

The quality of pass protection got better as the game went on. Maybe the main factor causing the improvement was the Jets choosing to blitz less often. Or maybe the main factor was the Bills doing a better job of blitz pickup.

 

The Jets defenders getting tired might have been a secondary factor. In most football games, it's easier to score points in the 4th quarter (when the defense is tired) than in the 1st quarter.

it's funny you should mention about it being easier in the 4th - trent edwards' numbers in the 4th quarter are absolutely abysmal.

 

4th Quarter 73 30 41.1 402 5.5 70 2 6 17 23.3 6 3 34.2

 

yes, folks, that's a 41.1 percent completion rate and a 34.2 qb rating.

 

for ***** and giggles, here's loserman's:

 

4th Quarter 63 41 65.1 470 7.5 85 1 1 25 39.7 4 3 86.1

 

it's kind of funny, in regards to people and their vendetta against losman; it wasn't a throw that let lee evans go up and get the ball, it was the defense being tired.

[dave mcbride]

please explain to me how edwards was better than jp losman last year - the numbers say otherwise.

JP didn't play two games in some of the most hellacious conditions in Bills history (and that's saying a lot), and he didn't have to start (essentially) his first game ever on the road against a 16-0 Pats team.

 

Anyway, I watched all the games, and irrespective of stats, I saw a QB with the potential to command an offense both efficiently and accurately.

 

My view is, we should all be happy. Barring injury, the Bills are about to have a capable, intelligent, efficient, and indeed playoff caliber QB for the first time in many a year. Enjoy it.

[dave mcbride]

it's funny you should mention about it being easier in the 4th - trent edwards' numbers in the 4th quarter are absolutely abysmal.

 

4th Quarter 73 30 41.1 402 5.5 70 2 6 17 23.3 6 3 34.2

 

yes, folks, that's a 41.1 percent completion rate and a 34.2 qb rating.

 

for ***** and giggles, here's loserman's:

 

4th Quarter 63 41 65.1 470 7.5 85 1 1 25 39.7 4 3 86.1

 

it's kind of funny, in regards to people and their vendetta against losman; it wasn't a throw that let lee evans go up and get the ball, it was the defense being tired.

You ever heard of cooking the books to make a point? Did you watch or experience the conditions in the Cleveland and NYG games? Did you take into account that for your 'stats,' Lee Evans missed half the Philly game, and that Sam Achin' was subbing?

[dave mcbride]

that's funny. to me it looked like he sucked, save for the games against the redskins and dolphins.

Rich Gannon, who actually knows a thing or two about QBing (and who for my money was possibly the best QB in the league from 1999-2002), said that Edwards' game agains the Jets at the Ralph was the best debut by a rookie QB he's ever seen. Did it ever cross your mind that intelligent QBs with skills improve after their rookie year?

[Flbillsfan#1]

Rich Gannon, who actually knows a thing or two about QBing (and who for my money was possibly the best QB in the league from 1999-2002), said that Edwards' game agains the Jets at the Ralph was the best debut by a rookie QB he's ever seen. Did it ever cross your mind that intelligent QBs with skills improve after their rookie year?

Payton Manning, Brett Favre, Tom Brady were all playing 1999-2002. Go back & watch the 2002 Super Bowl again & tell me how good Gannon was.

[Adam]

You ever heard of cooking the books to make a point? Did you watch or experience the conditions in the Cleveland and NYG games? Did you take into account that for your 'stats,' Lee Evans missed half the Philly game, and that Sam Achin' was subbing?

People don't care about facts. They just want to twist them and stupid stats so their favorite QB looks good and the other QB looks bad

[Flbillsfan#1]

You ever heard of cooking the books to make a point? Did you watch or experience the conditions in the Cleveland and NYG games? Did you take into account that for your 'stats,' Lee Evans missed half the Philly game, and that Sam Achin' was subbing?

How many TD's did Trent throw to Evans in the half he played? The game conditions were the SAME for both teams...... Trent LOST both.

[ExiledInIllinois]

The difference is that I try not to pretend that I know something which I don't know, and then try to pass it off as gospel.

 

What I DO know, and what folks like yourself refuse to accept or even acknowledge, is that no one knows how JP ranks because (as I've stated here a number of times in the past), he's been treated and managed only slightly better than a Britney Spears newborn. Add to that all the weaknesses on the team from a roster standpoint (no #2 WR, TE) and then add to THAT the horrific and downright perplexing playcalling by Fairchild, and THEN add to that the embarrassing and inexcusable fact that neither quarterback was allowed to audible out of some horrible playcalling, and it is impossible...goddamn impossible...for you or anyone else who spends time as an online fan to know jack shiit about what JP can or can not do or how he ranks.

 

For some reason, people like you and Jerry Sullivan simply refuse to accept or acknowledge any of these conditions.

 

I have always contended that this is just my opinion and it is rather nothing special.

 

He has been given a fair shot and he still sucks... Time to put your personal reasons behind you!

 

IMO, he "JP'd" himself right our the NFL BY HIS OWN DOING (by flying off the deep end)... He called out the coaching staff and owner... Why would anyone want to give a MARGINAL talent a second chance?... His "window" of opportunity closed on him... Time to cut him.

 

Lets close the book on this mistake.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Again, you ignore the facts and assume that simply because the Bills handled him the way they have, there is no other way to handle him. The way you argue it, the Bills have done everything to make JP successful, and the fact that JP has not been successful is squarely on JP's shoulders. That is, until Edwards starts to fail, and then it's "Well, he doesn't have a #2WR, a TE, his OL sucks, the playcalling sucks, he can't call audibles..."

 

And some of us would argue that JP's development was further stunted when Mularkey panicked, stopped giving JP development time, and threw Holcomb into some games in hopes of saving his career. What you also keep forgetting is after Holcomb got hurt against KC -- a game Losman won for us -- Losman stayed in as starter until he got hurt vs. NE, at which time Holcomb came back.

 

But hey...he lost his job to Holcomb. That's all you see. Now you're agreeing with Sullivan AND Mularkey.

 

Great company there.

 

No. Edwards can very well be a bust like JP... It is just that JP has been given every opportunity and his window is now closed.

 

Sorry... It is a rough business. Either lead, follow, or get out of the way. No time for whiners and complainers...

[ExiledInIllinois]

good post.

 

What i wonder is that why so many here are so absolutely confident that JP is so terrible that he shouldnt even be on an NFL roster, why are they afraid of letting him compete against trent? Trent should mop the floor with him, according to them.

 

I'm also wondering why they feel it was ok the way the Bills handled/developed JP, but Trent should be treated completely differently?

 

No. Trent should not be treated any differently! He either makes it or he doesn't. Again, this is a rough job comepeting for 32 spots.

 

We can't sit here and waste time with JP... It is Trent's time to put up or shut up, no shoulda, woulda, and coulda's!

 

Man... Thank God the public internet wasn;t around in 1973 or some would be having the same JP man-love with Dennis Shaw 9and he was even rookie of the year!)

 

This JP thing has got to be personal with some? Why can't we just let it go? Why do we have to live in the past and second guess everything?

[Guest dog14787]

No. Trent should not be treated any differently! He either makes it or he doesn't. Again, this is a rough job comepeting for 32 spots.

 

We can't sit here and waste time with JP... It is Trent's time to put up or shut up, no shoulda, woulda, and coulda's!

 

Man... Thank God the public internet wasn;t around in 1973 or some would be having the same JP man-love with Dennis Shaw 9and he was even rookie of the year!)

 

This JP thing has got to be personal with some? Why can't we just let it go? Why do we have to live in the past and second guess everything?

 

Maybe because we like JP Losman the person.

 

Whats to say you can't have two good QB's anyway? So ones developing slower, we still have allot of time invested, you don't want to just give up on a talented player like JP so easily. I'm real happy he's coming back and I know he will come in and perform well under our new OC when called upon.

 

Losman has been a good, hard working, team first player from the day we drafted him on, and he's tried to embrace the City of Buffalo the best way he knows how.

 

I think some of us will always love JP Losman for trying to make Buffalo a better place to live, so yes, maybe for some of us, it is personal.

[bizell]

You ever heard of cooking the books to make a point? Did you watch or experience the conditions in the Cleveland and NYG games? Did you take into account that for your 'stats,' Lee Evans missed half the Philly game, and that Sam Achin' was subbing?

there was no stat manipulation on my part - i just copied and pasted what numbers were there.

 

yes, i took into account that lee evans got knocked out trying to catch a trent edwards pass. what's your point?

 

call me cynical, but i'm not so sure that trent edwards is the savior after him getting a touchdown pass in 3 out of 10 games.

[Bill from NYC]

If he were given a fair shot at competing?...

 

He could definitely win the starting QB job for these NFL teams...Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Texans, Raiders, Chiefs, Redskins, Vikings, Bears, Panthers, Falcons, 49ers.

 

I don't mean to be rude, but were you having an LSD flashback when you typed this?

[Bill from NYC]

Maybe because we like JP Losman the person.

 

Whats to say you can't have two good QB's anyway? So ones developing slower, we still have allot of time invested, you don't want to just give up on a talented player like JP so easily. I'm real happy he's coming back and I know he will come in and perform well under our new OC when called upon.

 

Losman has been a good, hard working, team first player from the day we drafted him on, and he's tried to embrace the City of Buffalo the best way he knows how.

 

I think some of us will always love JP Losman for trying to make Buffalo a better place to live, so yes, maybe for some of us, it is personal.

 

Wrong.

[Flbillsfan#1]

No. Trent should not be treated any differently! He either makes it or he doesn't. Again, this is a rough job comepeting for 32 spots.

 

We can't sit here and waste time with JP... It is Trent's time to put up or shut up, no shoulda, woulda, and coulda's!

 

Man... Thank God the public internet wasn;t around in 1973 or some would be having the same JP man-love with Dennis Shaw 9and he was even rookie of the year!)

 

This JP thing has got to be personal with some? Why can't we just let it go? Why do we have to live in the past and second guess everything?

The JP thing seems to be personal with the haters. Why can't you just let it go? The Bills have decided to KEEP JP around & have good reason for doing so. NOBODY KNOWS if Trent will develop in 08 or not. He may be the next Jim Miller- a good QB that can't stay healthy. Why don't you put your personal feelings of HATE aside & quit trying to second guess the teams decision to keep JP. He will be a Bill in 08, you will just have to accept that fact.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Maybe because we like JP Losman the person.

 

Whats to say you can't have two good QB's anyway? So ones developing slower, we still have allot of time invested, you don't want to just give up on a talented player like JP so easily. I'm real happy he's coming back and I know he will come in and perform well under our new OC when called upon.

 

Losman has been a good, hard working, team first player from the day we drafted him on, and he's tried to embrace the City of Buffalo the best way he knows how.

 

I think some of us will always love JP Losman for trying to make Buffalo a better place to live, so yes, maybe for some of us, it is personal.

Good post, MANY people feel this way.

[dave mcbride]

Payton Manning, Brett Favre, Tom Brady were all playing 1999-2002. Go back & watch the 2002 Super Bowl again & tell me how good Gannon was.

Actually, Brady didn't play in 99 and 00. I'd take these stats from 1999-2002 over any of them. As for that Super Bowl, how many drops did Tim Brown have? How poorly did their substitute center play? Simeon Rice ate up everyone in front of him as well. I'm not saying that Gannon had a great game, just that other players on offense came up way short as well. Team game and all ...

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GannRi00.htm