Gordio Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 So are you and that is why this argument for and against is meaningless. I read somewhere I think on monday in the buffalo news where it said the bills did not get one inquiriy for the availability of Losman. I would take that as the rest of the league does not view Losman in a favorable manner. How could they after watching 3 years of game film on the guy?
Stenbar Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Ha..How many pages will this one reach....I need another Finklism,,Where are you Ray?????
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Jerry hasn't liked a QB since Flutie left!! Should he have? I have high hopes for Edwards, but in all fairness, our QBs since Flutie have been a bunch of losers (good guys though ).
Stenbar Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 If you guys want a shot at Jerry he plays for a wednesday night softball team for Malones..I have played against him a few times..He is a wiseass....I had a few shots at him he catches..
eball Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 If you guys want a shot at Jerry he plays for a wednesday night softball team for Malones..I have played against him a few times..He is a wiseass....I had a few shots at him he catches.. Q: Where do you put the non-athlete on a slo-pitch softball team? A: Catcher.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 I really don't think it was as bad of an article as some are making out to be. I like Losman but the way he called out coaches and made comments about Ralph being the benching was bush league. Again, he is a good guy and I'm sure quite frustrated, but you don't do that. You take responsiblity for your own play. And for as much as we said that it's good to have JP as a backup, I have little doubts he wasn't on the block. Even if Edwards gets hurt, has Losman ever show he could put more than a couple of good starts together? Fact is, no one offered anything of value. So Sullivan is right that it doesn't serve Edwards any good having JP as a backup. Because they were always be those brain-dead people who are willing to give up on a 2nd year player for a 5th year one (with mostly average to below average play) the moment TE struggles. no disrespect intended to you C, but i cut Losman alot of slack from an attitude perspective. Sullivan implied he was mostly a good soldier, I thought he handled himself very well all things considered. i know most have written off Losman as having ever had the ability to be 'the' guy, and that's fine, I understand that, but being on this offensive dog of a team between mularkey and clements and fairchild had to be brutal whether you're ryan leaf or joe montana. toss in there the clusterfk of bledsoe in or out, edwards in or out, and everything else, coupled with a defense that hasn't been able to do much the past few years, and it seems to me this experiment was doomed from the start. should he have called out ralph? no. coaches? no. at least, not in a perfect world. but then he's also trying to step up and be the guy in a business where every a-hole with a remote control shares his opinion on how bad you suck, or a guy like sullivan decides one day to cut your nuts off in the court of public opinion, and i can forgive the guy for a few bad calls. in fact, maybe some true leadership exhibited from the top down or the organization would have precluded ANY of that stuff from going on. but, that was missing for most of the time he's been here as well, and in some way, the palyer mirroed the organization he worked for. it happens. i'm hioping dick j in 2008 has that stuff figured out. and, Sullivan cracks me up with his diatribe against the guy, and tosses in there the old feel-good analysis that it "wouldn't be fair to Edwards". fair shmair. Let's hope Edwards is finally the guy, not the most recent reincarnation of the person who will deliver us. That'd be awesome, and I'd wish Losman well and be happy to pull for Edwards. anyway.
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 see my above post on why no one will trade for him. o team is going to trade for him with one year left on his deal and risk losing him next year if he does good. My sense is that the league perception of JP is really quite low. Having said that, I think many of those teams are wrong about his play (i.e., he does have some assets). I think the problem might be that while teams might see JP as having the ability of a capable backup, no one sees him as a starter, and therefore they don't want to trade for a guy who'll be militating for the starting job (which is clearly what he'd do). It's just trouble, and when you combine that with the fact that it's a one-year deal, he's more trouble than he's worth. Now if they thought that he'd be a capable starter, there is no way that the year deal presents a problem -- at all. Think about it this way -- if the Bears decided to go with Kyle Orton and were shopping Rex Grossman with one year left and you were very underwhelmed with Grossman (a similar player to JP), why would you trade for him knowing that he'd be bucking for the #1 job? But if the team were trading, say, a healthy Jake Delhomme with one year left (or some comparable player who produced well as a starter) and your own QB situation isn't particularly good, then it's an easy decision to make -- you decide that it's OK to try and obtain him.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Want him to do what, straighten up? How in the world would you claim to know this? I just took that as a random number when Sullivan wrote that "it divided the team". If it were just Evans and a couple others, he would have said it. I think it's probably accurate, 50-50, although the vast majority of the players likely aren't taking sides at all, and will support whomever is in there. They probably like both of them. It's pretty obvious they both have strengths and weaknesses. It's pretty obvious that they are both good guys and team players and their teammates probably like them both a lot. It's also self-evident that players don't like to be jerked around by management and feel for their teammates that do, especially when money is involved. And they know Losman was screwed out of a lot of money (at least from a player's perspective, management may have an entirely different view on this). They also probably very much respect what he did last year by not making a stink.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 The simple, I think inarguable fact, is that NO team is going to give up a high draft pick AND sign a player to a significant extension if they don't know he's going to be their starter. That's the reason we didn't get great trade offers. Losman isn't going to sign for peanuts, he's going to play out his last year and try free agency. He's HIGHLY unlikely to want to sign an incentive deal when what happened to him last year occurred. So who is going to offer a #2 for a guy for one year they can't sign, because if he plays great, suddenly he'll be wanted man in FA next year (I'm not saying he will, I'm only saying no team would be willing to do that).
Ramius Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 My sense is that the league perception of JP is really quite low. Having said that, I think many of those teams are wrong about his play (i.e., he does have some assets). I think the problem might be that while teams might see JP as having the ability of a capable backup, no one sees him as a starter, and therefore they don't want to trade for a guy who'll be militating for the starting job (which is clearly what he'd do). It's just trouble, and when you combine that with the fact that it's a one-year deal, he's more trouble than he's worth. Now if they thought that he'd be a capable starter, there is no way that the year deal presents a problem -- at all. Think about it this way -- if the Bears decided to go with Kyle Orton and were shopping Rex Grossman with one year left and you were very underwhelmed with Grossman (a similar player to JP), why would you trade for him knowing that he'd be bucking for the #1 job? But if the team were trading, say, a healthy Jake Delhomme with one year left (or some comparable player who produced well as a starter) and your own QB situation isn't particularly good, then it's an easy decision to make -- you decide that it's OK to try and obtain him. See, to me, if i was running a team that had questions at the QB position, i'd trade a late 3rd or a 4th for Grossman with the notion that he could compete for the starting job. Sure the guy has been a turnover machine, but in the right offense, i think he could do fairly well. Then again, he may just stink it up some more. However, i would not trade for him without some minimal re-working on the deal and a minimum extension. For Grossman, i would most likely set up a 2 year deal with a large roster bonus after year 1. That way, after 1 year, you cut him with minimal losses if he's bad, or if he turns out to be good, he's fairly compnested in yr 2 and you can hammer out a long term deal. As for JP, oi agree with you that he's going to want to start wherever he goes, and that, combined with the fcat he's got 1 year left on his deal, makes him untradeable. If he had 2-3 years left on the deal, he's be somewhere else right now. Mostly, i was arguing that JP's situation is what makes him untradeable, NOT his talent and ability. There are too many knumbskulls on here that cannot grasp this seemingly simple concept.
1billsfan Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Keep making the excuses. That what the losman lovers do best. A similar contract situation that did not stop Willis from getting traded or Henry. It says alot of how low the acedemic standards at Florida State must be to admit a moron like you in. Making excuses is what the Jauron lovers do best. I never heard so many excuses for why this NFL head coach is such a loser. If Edwards starts looking bad in 2008 because of the p*ssy offensive gameplanning like there was in 2007 then Bills fans who hated on Losman may finally come to realize it wasn't his or Edwards fault after all. The book on Losman hasn't been written yet, Jauron's is pretty much cast in iron now.
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 See, to me, if i was running a team that had questions at the QB position, i'd trade a late 3rd or a 4th for Grossman with the notion that he could compete for the starting job. Sure the guy has been a turnover machine, but in the right offense, i think he could do fairly well. Then again, he may just stink it up some more. However, i would not trade for him without some minimal re-working on the deal and a minimum extension. For Grossman, i would most likely set up a 2 year deal with a large roster bonus after year 1. That way, after 1 year, you cut him with minimal losses if he's bad, or if he turns out to be good, he's fairly compnested in yr 2 and you can hammer out a long term deal. As for JP, oi agree with you that he's going to want to start wherever he goes, and that, combined with the fcat he's got 1 year left on his deal, makes him untradeable. If he had 2-3 years left on the deal, he's be somewhere else right now. Mostly, i was arguing that JP's situation is what makes him untradeable, NOT his talent and ability. There are too many knumbskulls on here that cannot grasp this seemingly simple concept. I see what you're saying, but where I disagree is that his ability IS being questioned, which is partly why it's so hard to trade him. I've seen too many comments by league people not affiliated with the Bills (players, coaches, management; sometimes anonymous) that indicate a lack of confidence in him. I'm not saying they're right, but the herd mentality is pretty common in the NFL (it's not for nothing that it's called a copycat league). If they thought he was good, I don't see why they'd hold off on getting him -- one good year that'll help you get to the playoffs ain't chopped liver, particularly since so many coaches and GMs face the threat of being fired every single year.
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Making excuses is what the Jauron lovers do best. I never heard so many excuses for why this NFL head coach is such a loser. If Edwards starts looking bad in 2008 because of the p*ssy offensive gameplanning like there was in 2007 then Bills fans who hated on Losman may finally come to realize it wasn't his or Edwards fault after all. The book on Losman hasn't been written yet, Jauron's is pretty much cast in iron now. Why are bringing in Jauron here? He's not germane to the conversation. There are other more appropriate threads in which you can repeat your opinion about Jauron yet again.
1billsfan Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 I see what you're saying, but where I disagree is that his ability IS being questioned, which is partly why it's so hard to trade him. I've seen too many comments by league people not affiliated with the Bills (players, coaches, management; sometimes anonymous) that indicate a lack of confidence in him. I'm not saying they're right, but the herd mentality is pretty common in the NFL (it's not for nothing that it's called a copycat league). If they thought he was good, I don't see why they'd hold off on getting him -- one good year that'll help you get to the playoffs ain't chopped liver, particularly since so many coaches and GMs face the threat of being fired every single year. The Bills made a determination of what they'd accept for compensation in a trade offer for Losman. They weighed his worth as a backup to an injury prone starter (Edwards) vs whichever rookie they would receive in return. I'm thinking it was a second rounder. Why would the Bills risk a Trent Edwards injury for a third rounder or less in this the most crucial Bills season in over a decade. IMO they wouldn't and smartly didn't. So there you now can understand the unwillingness of the GMs of any NFL team interested. There obviously was not one GM willing to throw down a second round pick on a guy with only one year left on his contract and with so little cache as Losman currently has in this league. No matter how much they'd want him on their team, the risk of having Losman fail and it costing them their jobs in the fall out was way too great to ever expect any GM to stick their neck out as much as that trade would require.
Gary M Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 The simple, I think inarguable fact, is that NO team is going to give up a high draft pick AND sign a player to a significant extension if they don't know he's going to be their starter. That's the reason we didn't get great trade offers. Losman isn't going to sign for peanuts, he's going to play out his last year and try free agency. He's HIGHLY unlikely to want to sign an incentive deal when what happened to him last year occurred. So who is going to offer a #2 for a guy for one year they can't sign, because if he plays great, suddenly he'll be wanted man in FA next year (I'm not saying he will, I'm only saying no team would be willing to do that). Damn it man, stop bringing common sense into this argument.
nucci Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 The Bills made a determination of what they'd accept for compensation in a trade offer for Losman. They weighed his worth as a backup to an injury prone starter (Edwards) vs whichever rookie they would receive in return. I'm thinking it was a second rounder. Why would the Bills risk a Trent Edwards injury for a third rounder or less in this the most crucial Bills season in over a decade. IMO they wouldn't and smartly didn't. So there you now can understand the unwillingness of the GMs of any NFL team interested. There obviously was not one GM willing to throw down a second round pick on a guy with only one year left on his contract and with so little cache as Losman currently has in this league. No matter how much they'd want him on their team, the risk of having Losman fail and it costing them their jobs in the fall out was way too great to ever expect any GM to stick their neck out as much as that trade would require. Please explain.
SuperKillerRobots Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Making excuses is what the Jauron lovers do best. I never heard so many excuses for why this NFL head coach is such a loser. If Edwards starts looking bad in 2008 because of the p*ssy offensive gameplanning like there was in 2007 then Bills fans who hated on Losman may finally come to realize it wasn't his or Edwards fault after all. The book on Losman hasn't been written yet, Jauron's is pretty much cast in iron now. I'm not saying you're wrong about Jauron, but I think what fans are trying to aviod by cutting him some slack is the "knee-jerk" reaction that often comes from fans who think you can turn a losing franchise around in a day or year. It doesn't happen. Also, do you think that all successful coaches are successful with every type of team? Could it be that come coaches are better suited for coaching younger players than older ones and vice-versa? That's really just one example too. You could say some coaches would be better to have coaching a defense first team and others an offense first team. I agree that Dick has had virtually no success in the NFL as a head coach and he almost seems, at least to me, to be more suited as a defensive coordinator (i.e. Gregg Williams). Does that mean I don't think he can post a winning season in 08? No. Does it mean that I don't think he can get us to the playoffs in 08? No. Does it mean I would feel good going far into the playoffs with him, with the extra burden of having playoff expectations on the team? Probably. At least until he does it for a first time. So, I agree that he probably is not our Super Bowl winning coach, but I don't think we have a legitimate shot at the Super Bowl this year anyway. Why run a guy out of town when at this point, there probably isn't a guy who is going to do a much better job. Also, I think the fact that we hired two coordinators, with no experience prior to him, made the FO (Wilson) want a guy with some experience and maturity. That's pretty much Dick.
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 The Bills made a determination of what they'd accept for compensation in a trade offer for Losman. They weighed his worth as a backup to an injury prone starter (Edwards) vs whichever rookie they would receive in return. I'm thinking it was a second rounder. Why would the Bills risk a Trent Edwards injury for a third rounder or less in this the most crucial Bills season in over a decade. IMO they wouldn't and smartly didn't. So there you now can understand the unwillingness of the GMs of any NFL team interested. There obviously was not one GM willing to throw down a second round pick on a guy with only one year left on his contract and with so little cache as Losman currently has in this league. No matter how much they'd want him on their team, the risk of having Losman fail and it costing them their jobs in the fall out was way too great to ever expect any GM to stick their neck out as much as that trade would require. I believe the Bills would have taken fourth for him. I could be wrong, of course. No way were they expecting a second.
1billsfan Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Why are bringing in Jauron here? He's not germane to the conversation. There are other more appropriate threads in which you can repeat your opinion about Jauron yet again. Jauron was the man who was responsible for the historically bad Bills 2006 offense. It wasn't Fairchild, it wasn't LOSMAN, and it wasn't Edwards. It was Dick Jauron. THAT is why it is "germane" to this discussion. Having Jauron as your head coach for an NFL quarterback is about as cheery as having reverend wright as your paster in a presidential election.
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Jauron was the man who was responsible for the historically bad Bills 2006 offense. It wasn't Fairchild, it wasn't LOSMAN, and it wasn't Edwards. It was Dick Jauron. THAT is why it is "germane" to this discussion. Having Jauron as your head coach for an NFL quarterback is about as cheery as having reverend wright as your paster in a presidential election. Whatever. The crusade is getting tired, I must say. The offense wasn't historically bad because of Jauron. It sucked under Mularkey, and it sucked for two out thre three years Williams was here. Anyway, I suggesting sticking to the topic at hand -- Losman -- and not blaming Jauron for his performance (an utterly unverifiable charge in any event). Do you honestly think JP's been hamstrung by the coaching? From my perch, I saw him perform poorly in the last few outings he played in (sans the Cincy game), and it's not as if he didn't have the opportunity to make plays. I like JP and am not unhappy that he's our backup, but he's not a very good NFL QB. He may be one day, but he ain't now. When's the last time you saw a positive comment about JP from a member of *any* other team in the league?
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