Sherman Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Remember tho when JP started his full season we often had to leave in a RB and a TE to block because our line sucked. Look at the whole situation. Trent walks in behind a very expensive and very good pass blocking line, the TE's are going to go out more if you have a good line When JP was in last year he only looked to Evans. JP sucked last year too. I understand what you are saying. The line he played behind two years ago was not good. That is why I was wondering if anyone knew out of the 50 passed caught by Royal and Gaines, how many were from Trent vs JP. My guess would be trent threw 30-35 of those completions.
Tcali Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 The draft is over, and for the first time we have a decent look at what next year's starting lineup might look like. Offense QB Trent Edwards (JP Losman) RB Marshawn Lynch (Fred Jackson) FB Mike Viti (Darian Barnes) WR Lee Evans (Josh Reed) WR James Hardy (Roscoe Parrish) TE Robert Royal (Derek Fine) LT Jason Peters (Kirk Chambers) LG Derrick Dockery (Jason Whittle) C Melvin Fowler (Duke Preston) RG Brad Butler (Jason Whittle) RT Langston Walker (Kirk Chambers) Some thoughts about the offense: 1. If Hardy can catch some jump balls in the end zone, we have a pretty nasty 4-deep receiving corps. 2. From what I have read already about Viti, I think he is the favorite to win the starting FB job. He seems like he has the kind of leadership and toughguy mentality that the coaching staff will want from the FB position. Sounds like he can play, too. 3. Unless Fine is a revelation or Shouman comes out of nowhere, our tight ends are pretty dreadful. 4. I still like our starting five on the O-line, but our lack of depth there is frightening, particularly at tackle. That will need to be addressed soon. 5. A couple potential "surprise" cuts this season (not predicting any of these, but none would shock me): Preston, Royal (if Fine and Shouman prove more athletic), and Dwayne Wright (if Xavier Omon surprises in camp). Defense LE Chris Kelsay (Ryan Denney) DT Marcus Stroud (Kyle Williams) DT John McCargo (Spencer Johnson) RE Aaron Schobel (Chris Ellis) SLB Angelo Crowell (Kawika Mitchell) MLB Paul Posluszny (John Digiorgio) WLB Kawika Mitchell (Keith Ellison) CB Terence McGee (Jabari Greer, Reggie Corner) CB Leodis McKelvin (Will James, Ashton Youboty) FS Ko Simpson (George Wilson) SS Donte Whitner (Bryan Scott, John Wendling) Some thoughts about the defense: 1. Top-10 potential for this D. There likely will be 4 new starters (Stroud, Posluszny, Mitchell, and McKelvin). We have added key depth at all levels of the defense. If the new additions pan out (Mitchell, Stroud, and McKelvin) and the young guys take the next step (McCargo, Posluszny, Whitner, Simpson), then this defense will be much improved and, by extension, it will improve the offense. 2. Now that he's in his second year at safety, it wouldn't shock me if Wilson beat out Simpson in the preseason. I could see Wendling being much improved this season and beating out Scott for the backup SS job. 3. I love our depth on the line and in the secondary, but surprisingly I think we're a little thin at LB still. Unless Alvin Bowen can contribute right away, we could probably stand to add a veteran before the season. I think I read that we are in talks with some LB whose name escapes me. 4. I see McKelvin winning the starting CB job just before the start of the regular season, much like Posluszny vs. DiGiorgio last year. Battle for the nickel CB job between Greer and James. Edge to Greer. 5. A couple potential "surprise" cuts this season (not predicting any of these, but none would shock me): Youboty, Scott, and maybe even Ellison if Bowen surprises people in camp. Any thoughts? I think we are now a middle of the pack D instead of the worst in the league like last year.
ans4e64 Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 I understand what you are saying But when we signed Royal didn't those same coach RAVE about his ability to catch passes? pretty sure they did Honestly I take what they say with a grain of salt until I see these players play for myself. No. They said he was only used as a blocker in Washington, but they believed he could also be a receiving threat if given the chance. They were wrong.
K-Gun10 Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 A ? about Viti can he CAtch and run or just block?
Mark Long Beach Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 I think we are now a middle of the pack D instead of the worst in the league like last year. We already were a middle of the pack D last year. We ranked 18th in scoring defense. Yes, I do agree that we gave up too many yards, let drives go for too long, and didn't have many turnovers. But we kept them out of the endzone for the mostpart. I these moves gives us a chance to be in the top 10.
Captain Hindsight Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 When JP was in last year he only looked to Evans. JP sucked last year too. I understand what you are saying. The line he played behind two years ago was not good. That is why I was wondering if anyone knew out of the 50 passed caught by Royal and Gaines, how many were from Trent vs JP. My guess would be trent threw 30-35 of those completions. I did look quickyl and your right it was mostly Trent throwing to the tight end. However JP also used Lee and Reed and Price more. I dont know what difference that makes but its just what i noticed
Sherman Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 This is just my observation. I have no stats to back this up but I think Trent spreads the ball around much better than JP. I would be willing to bet TE's, RB's and WR's not named Lee Evans caught more passes when Trent was in the game. Maybe Trent just reads the defenses better but JP seems to get on the field and just look for Evans. I think our offense will be much better this year if for no other reason Tent will make defenses cover all the eligable recievers and not put all their focus on Evans. Lee will have a much better season as a result of more one on one match ups.
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 My 2008 Buffalo Bills Lineup: *Bold is different from original poster's lineup. Offense QB Trent Edwards (JP Losman) RB Marshawn Lynch (Fred Jackson, Dwayne Wright) FB Mike Viti (Xavier Omon) WR Lee Evans (Josh Reed, Justin Jenkins) WR James Hardy (Roscoe Parrish, Steve Johnson) TE Robert Royal (Derek Fine, Teyo Johnson) LT Jason Peters (Kirk Chambers) LG Derrick Dockery (Demetrius Bell/Robert Felton) C Melvin Fowler (Duke Preston) RG Brad Butler (Demetrius Bell/Robert Felton) RT Langston Walker (Kirk Chambers) Defense LE Chris Kelsay (Ryan Denney) DT Marcus Stroud (Kyle Williams) DT John McCargo (Spencer Johnson, Jason Jefferson) RE Aaron Schobel (Chris Ellis) SLB Angelo Crowell (Alvin Bowen) MLB Paul Posluszny (John Digiorgio) WLB Kawika Mitchell (Keith Ellison) CB Terence McGee (Jabari Greer, Reggie Corner) CB Leodis McKelvin (Will James, Ashton Youboty) FS Ko Simpson (George Wilson, Kennard Cox) SS Donte Whitner (John Wendling) K Rian Lindell P Brian Moorman Practice Squad QB Luke Drone RB Bruce Hall WR Felton Huggins WR Jason Jones DE/DT Teraz McCray LB Joe Brockington LB Jon Banks LB Marcus Buggs Some suggestions... -> I think that Wright and Omon will BOTH be kept on, for special teams and a backup Fullback. -> I think that WRs Steve Johnson and Justin Jenkins will stay...AND surprise! -> Due to athletic ability and versatility, Teyo Johnson or Courtney Anderson and Derek Fine or Derek Schouman will be Royal's backups. Johnson and Anderson are the same player, except Johnson is a better receiver with more speed. Fine and Schouman are the same player, both can backup FB. -> Rookies Bell and Felton will be kept on as project linemen, due to their potential talent. -> Jason Jefferson will be kept due to his versatility as a DE and DT. -> Alvin Bowen will replace Haggan/Stamer...but will be a better Linebacker. -> We will keep 6 corners, all too good to let go. -> Kennard Cox will be kept due to his versatility to play CB and FS. -> I think Teraz McCray could be a surprise to make the team due to his talent and versatility to play DE and DT.
d_wag Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 My 2008 Buffalo Bills Lineup:*Bold is different from original poster's lineup. Offense QB Trent Edwards (JP Losman) RB Marshawn Lynch (Fred Jackson, Wright) FB Mike Viti (Xavier Omon) WR Lee Evans (Josh Reed, Justin Jenkins) WR James Hardy (Roscoe Parrish, Steve Johnson) TE Robert Royal (Derek Fine, Teyo Johnson) LT Jason Peters (Kirk Chambers) LG Derrick Dockery (Demetrius Bell/Robert Felton) C Melvin Fowler (Duke Preston) RG Brad Butler (Demetrius Bell/Robert Felton) RT Langston Walker (Kirk Chambers) Defense LE Chris Kelsay (Ryan Denney) DT Marcus Stroud (Kyle Williams) DT John McCargo (Spencer Johnson, Jason Jefferson) RE Aaron Schobel (Chris Ellis) SLB Angelo Crowell (Alvin Bowen) MLB Paul Posluszny (John Digiorgio) WLB Kawika Mitchell (Keith Ellison) CB Terence McGee (Jabari Greer, Reggie Corner) CB Leodis McKelvin (Will James, Ashton Youboty) FS Ko Simpson (George Wilson, Kennard Cox) SS Donte Whitner (John Wendling) K Rian Lindell P Brian Moorman Some suggestions... -> I think that Wright and Omon will BOTH be kept on, for special teams and a backup Fullback. -> I think that WRs Steve Johnson and Justin Jenkins will stay...AND surprise! -> Due to athletic ability and versatility, Teyo Johnson or Courtney Anderson and Derek Fine or Derek Schouman will be Royal's backups. Johnson and Anderson are the same player, except Johnson is a better receiver with more speed. Fine and Schouman are the same player, both can backup FB. -> Rookies Bell and Felton will be kept on as project linemen, due to their potential talent. -> Jason Jefferson will be kept due to his versatility as a DE and DT. -> Alvin Bowen will replace Haggan/Stamer...but will be a better Linebacker. -> We will keep 6 corners, all too good to let go. -> Kennard Cox will be kept due to his versatility to play CB and FS. -> I think Teraz McCray could be a surprise to make the team due to his talent and versatility to play DE and DT. nice work, but i count 54........you also forget about the long snapper, neil no bryan scott? bills were quick to resign him and seemed to be quite happy with his contribution last year what about whittle? i believe he was also resigned
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 nice work, but i count 54........you also forget about the long snapper, neil no bryan scott? bills were quick to resign him and seemed to be quite happy with his contribution last year what about whittle? i believe he was also resigned I think they can find a Long Snapper somewhere else within the team. I can't find where Whittle was signed, he is not very good anyways. Bryan Scott does not have the potential or athletic ability that some of the other DB's do. There is only 53...if you don't count Teraz McCray. (I would say either him of Jefferson make the team).
ans4e64 Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 My 2008 Buffalo Bills Lineup:*Bold is different from original poster's lineup. Offense QB Trent Edwards (JP Losman) RB Marshawn Lynch (Fred Jackson, Dwayne Wright) FB Mike Viti (Xavier Omon) WR Lee Evans (Josh Reed, Justin Jenkins) WR James Hardy (Roscoe Parrish, Steve Johnson) TE Robert Royal (Derek Fine, Teyo Johnson) LT Jason Peters (Kirk Chambers) LG Derrick Dockery (Demetrius Bell/Robert Felton) C Melvin Fowler (Duke Preston) RG Brad Butler (Demetrius Bell/Robert Felton) RT Langston Walker (Kirk Chambers) Defense LE Chris Kelsay (Ryan Denney) DT Marcus Stroud (Kyle Williams) DT John McCargo (Spencer Johnson, Jason Jefferson) RE Aaron Schobel (Chris Ellis) SLB Angelo Crowell (Alvin Bowen) MLB Paul Posluszny (John Digiorgio) WLB Kawika Mitchell (Keith Ellison) CB Terence McGee (Jabari Greer, Reggie Corner) CB Leodis McKelvin (Will James, Ashton Youboty) FS Ko Simpson (George Wilson, Kennard Cox) SS Donte Whitner (John Wendling) K Rian Lindell P Brian Moorman Practice Squad QB Luke Drone RB Bruce Hall WR Felton Huggins WR Jason Jones DE/DT Teraz McCray LB Joe Brockington LB Jon Banks LB Marcus Buggs Some suggestions... -> I think that Wright and Omon will BOTH be kept on, for special teams and a backup Fullback. -> I think that WRs Steve Johnson and Justin Jenkins will stay...AND surprise! -> Due to athletic ability and versatility, Teyo Johnson or Courtney Anderson and Derek Fine or Derek Schouman will be Royal's backups. Johnson and Anderson are the same player, except Johnson is a better receiver with more speed. Fine and Schouman are the same player, both can backup FB. -> Rookies Bell and Felton will be kept on as project linemen, due to their potential talent. -> Jason Jefferson will be kept due to his versatility as a DE and DT. -> Alvin Bowen will replace Haggan/Stamer...but will be a better Linebacker. -> We will keep 6 corners, all too good to let go. -> Kennard Cox will be kept due to his versatility to play CB and FS. -> I think Teraz McCray could be a surprise to make the team due to his talent and versatility to play DE and DT. Omon is a tailback, not a fullback. He has never blocked in his life. Why do people continue to think those two positions are interchangeable?
obie_wan Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 A ? about Viti can he CAtch and run or just block? he can do it all. 32 teams forgot to draft him through 7 rounds. Bills lucked out
K-Gun10 Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 My 2008 Buffalo Bills Lineup:*Bold is different from original poster's lineup. Offense QB Trent Edwards (JP Losman) RB Marshawn Lynch (Fred Jackson, Dwayne Wright) FB Mike Viti (Xavier Omon) WR Lee Evans (Josh Reed, Justin Jenkins) WR James Hardy (Roscoe Parrish, Steve Johnson) TE Robert Royal (Derek Fine, Teyo Johnson) LT Jason Peters (Kirk Chambers) LG Derrick Dockery (Demetrius Bell/Robert Felton) C Melvin Fowler (Duke Preston) RG Brad Butler (Demetrius Bell/Robert Felton) RT Langston Walker (Kirk Chambers) Defense LE Chris Kelsay (Ryan Denney) DT Marcus Stroud (Kyle Williams) DT John McCargo (Spencer Johnson, Jason Jefferson) RE Aaron Schobel (Chris Ellis) SLB Angelo Crowell (Alvin Bowen) MLB Paul Posluszny (John Digiorgio) WLB Kawika Mitchell (Keith Ellison) CB Terence McGee (Jabari Greer, Reggie Corner) CB Leodis McKelvin (Will James, Ashton Youboty) FS Ko Simpson (George Wilson, Kennard Cox) SS Donte Whitner (John Wendling) K Rian Lindell P Brian Moorman Practice Squad QB Luke Drone RB Bruce Hall WR Felton Huggins WR Jason Jones DE/DT Teraz McCray LB Joe Brockington LB Jon Banks LB Marcus Buggs Some suggestions... -> I think that Wright and Omon will BOTH be kept on, for special teams and a backup Fullback. -> I think that WRs Steve Johnson and Justin Jenkins will stay...AND surprise! -> Due to athletic ability and versatility, Teyo Johnson or Courtney Anderson and Derek Fine or Derek Schouman will be Royal's backups. Johnson and Anderson are the same player, except Johnson is a better receiver with more speed. Fine and Schouman are the same player, both can backup FB. -> Rookies Bell and Felton will be kept on as project linemen, due to their potential talent. -> Jason Jefferson will be kept due to his versatility as a DE and DT. -> Alvin Bowen will replace Haggan/Stamer...but will be a better Linebacker. -> We will keep 6 corners, all too good to let go. -> Kennard Cox will be kept due to his versatility to play CB and FS. -> I think Teraz McCray could be a surprise to make the team due to his talent and versatility to play DE and DT. NO ONE around is to big on Schouman huh?
The_Philster Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 5. A couple potential "surprise" cuts this season (not predicting any of these, but none would shock me): Preston, I don't see how anyone would label that as a surprise cut. If not for Aaron Merz getting put on IR, Duke wouldn't have made the cut last year
Yoho Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 I disagree about Royal. I wouldn't be surprised if he got cut. We have Fine, who will do the majority of the pass catching, all Royal offered us was good blocking, which Courtney Anderson or any other TE on this team can do. Last year we didn't have Fine, Schouman, Anderson or Johnson... this year that makes Royal expendable. Do you realize that on about 75% of the plays the tight end is a blocker? They block on all the running plays and half the passing plays. Yet, all anyone seems to pay attention to is how many passes they catch. If Royals is as good a blocker as portrayed, he will be back.
OCinBuffalo Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 I like all of this because we have a reasonable COMPETITION at almost every roster spot except MLB, RB, and OL, and of course Lee Evans. We have proven, serviceable backups for those except O line. Really almost everybody but Evans, Lynch, the O line and Poz(kinda) is going to have to earn what they get. The upside of all the injuries last year is that everybody knows that the backups can play. O line is a bit of a concern though. We have to have continuity at the O line and I don't see any value in changing more than one guy each year, unless we have what we had in 2006. However, we could use a couple of guys there to make me feel better in terms of depth. However, they must be taking the time to convert Matt Murphy to play tackle for a reason, if he wasn't worth the effort then the Turk would've gotten him, right? And it would be great to see Bell make the roster and be a good backup while he's learning. For the Fowler haters, don't forget that Whittle is supposed to be able to play center. Preston is to, if anybody cares. In most cases, whoever starts this year will have to have earned it in camp, or has already earned it last year, which is as it should be.
obie_wan Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 I like all of this because we have a reasonable COMPETITION at almost every roster spot except MLB, RB, and OL, and of course Lee Evans. We have proven, serviceable backups for those except O line. Really almost everybody but Evans, Lynch, the O line and Poz(kinda) is going to have to earn what they get. The upside of all the injuries last year is that everybody knows that the backups can play. O line is a bit of a concern though. We have to have continuity at the O line and I don't see any value in changing more than one guy each year, unless we have what we had in 2006. However, we could use a couple of guys there to make me feel better in terms of depth. However, they must be taking the time to convert Matt Murphy to play tackle for a reason, if he wasn't worth the effort then the Turk would've gotten him, right? And it would be great to see Bell make the roster and be a good backup while he's learning. For the Fowler haters, don't forget that Whittle is supposed to be able to play center. Preston is to, if anybody cares. In most cases, whoever starts this year will have to have earned it in camp, or has already earned it last year, which is as it should be. Preston can't play his natural position of G, let alone C. They are trying to convert Murphy to OT because they again have ignored drafting a player high enough who can actually backup right away. Look at the OL backups - if anyone gets hurt, Trent will be running for his life
ans4e64 Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Do you realize that on about 75% of the plays the tight end is a blocker? They block on all the running plays and half the passing plays. Yet, all anyone seems to pay attention to is how many passes they catch. If Royals is as good a blocker as portrayed, he will be back. First of all, don't put a percentage that you made up in your post and use it as an argument. Second, read my other posts in this thread. I said if another TE emerges that shows he can block like Royal AND demonstrate he can be a receiving threat than Royal could be gone.
Yoho Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 First of all, don't put a percentage that you made up in your post and use it as an argument. Second, read my other posts in this thread. I said if another TE emerges that shows he can block like Royal AND demonstrate he can be a receiving threat than Royal could be gone. Let me help you with the math. Most pro teams try to go about 50% run and 50% pass. Sometimes they run out of the 4 receiver (no TE) set and sometimes they pass out of the two TE set but generally they use one tight end which means half the time they run and half the time they throw. So that would be 50/50, but if you watch the games at all, they often keep the tight end tight in passing situations to help in pass blocking. Thus, if you remember algebra class, the tight end would be blocking 75% of the time and going out on a pattern about 25% of the time. It might be 80/20, it might be 70/30, but it does not negate my point that more often than not when the Tight End is on the field, he is blocking. Thus a godd blocking, average receiving tight end may be more valuable than a good receiving , bad blocking tight end. The Bills seem to value the later much to the chagrin to many on this Board who only care about their recieving ability
ax4782 Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 A ? about Viti can he CAtch and run or just block? Article about him in the Buffalo News said he has decent hands, but he isn't much of a runner. He could be good on a flair route to gain two or three yards on third and short, or as a surprise on a screen, but mostly he is a blocker and short yardage ball carrier. Imaging Mike Alstott, but a bit slower.
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