d_wag Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 i said LIKE 12 dbs, which clearly means similar to but not exactly. also, you called my claim a gross exaggeration, which is gross in itself. lastly, your terrible initial post was in response to me saying that we could keep 7 cbs if one or two can double as a safety. clearly we can as that will not preclude having enough D linemen. admit you are wrong and i am right. you were wrong - you said 12, it was 10......move on i'm willing to wager that the 2008 Bills do not become the first team in the history of the NFL to carry 7 CB's or 12 DB's on a 53 man roster........it is ridiculous to think that any team would do that........you in?.........put up or shut up
colin Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 you were wrong - you said 12, it was 10......move on i'm willing to wager that the 2008 Bills do not become the first team in the history of the NFL to carry 7 CB's or 12 DB's on a 53 man roster........it is ridiculous to think that any team would do that........you in?.........put up or shut up i said LIKE 12 look at the post. and i said 7 cb's if one or two double as a safety. look, you're wrong and that's that. you should admit it. can you reach your keyboard from your knees?
beausox Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 if poz/crowell/mitchell are healthy ellison and bowen won't see the field save for special teams Agreed... but are there not situations , 3rd and very long , or extreme prevent situations where more pass defense oriented LB's like Ellison would be essentially playing as a DB?
d_wag Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Agreed... but are there not situations , 3rd and very long , or extreme prevent situations where more pass defense oriented LB's like Ellison would be essentially playing as a DB? if your a "3rd and very long" or "extreme prevent" you only have one LB on the field, at most.........as crowell and poz are both better then ellison in coverage, either one of them would be in the game over ellison
ax4782 Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Buffalo will have ten DBs on the roster and will then probably have two more on the PS, just in case we get super low like last year. In a league that is becoming increasingly pass happy, you need a lot of good DBs who can come in and cover teams that go five wide on third and long. James will NOT BE CUT. He is the biggest corner we have plus he signed a multi-year deal. The Bills think he has some years left and that backfield is in desperate need of a veteran leader, which is exactly the type of player that James is. Some say that 10 DBs is too many and we won't have room for people at other positions where we lack depth. As far as I can tell, the positions shape up like this. 1. O-Line-8 Players Jason Peters Derrick Dockery Melvin Fowler Brad Butler Langston Walker Duke Preston Kirk Chambers Jason Whittle 2. D-Line 10 Players Aaron Schobel Marcus Stroud John McCargo Chris Kelsay Chris Ellis Kyle Williams Spencer Johnson Ryan Denney Jason Jefferson Al Wallace 3. LB 6 players Kawika Mitchell Paul Pozluszny Angelo Crowell Keith Ellison John DiGiorgio ROOKIE 4. WR 6 players Lee Evans James Hardy Josh Reed Roscoe Parrish Justin Jenkins Steve Johnson 5. RB 4 Players Marshawn Lynch Fred Jackson Dwayne Wright Xavier Oman 6. FB 2 Players Mike Viti Damien Barnes 7. QB 3 Players Trent Edwards JP Losman Luke Drone 8. TE 5 Players Robert Royal Courtney Anderson Teyo Johnson Derek Schouman Derek Fine 9. CB 6 Players McGee McKelvin James Greer Youboty Corner 10. S 4 Players Donte Whitner Ko Simpson John Wendling George Wilson 11. P 1 player Brian Moorman 12. K 1 player Rian Lindell That is a total of 56 players. Three of them won't be starters and may be relegated to the practice squad. Further, it is likely that Al Wallace may not re-sign with the team, thus you have 55 players. Two won't be here. So, can the Bills carry 10 DBs on the roster and be successful? Absolutely. Against pass happy teams like NE and Cleveland, you need those talented DBs to go out and stop teams on third and long.
Orton's Arm Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 If you let all of your free agents go each year, you might get enough compensatory picks to draft all the corners. How many roads must a man walk down Before they call him a man? And how many corners must one man draft Before they call him Jauron? The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind The answer is blowing in the wind
keepthefaith Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 How many roads must a man walk downBefore they call him a man? And how many corners must one man draft Before they call him Jauron? The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind The answer is blowing in the wind Not bad.
BrooklynBills Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Buffalo will have ten DBs on the roster and will then probably have two more on the PS, just in case we get super low like last year. In a league that is becoming increasingly pass happy, you need a lot of good DBs who can come in and cover teams that go five wide on third and long. James will NOT BE CUT. He is the biggest corner we have plus he signed a multi-year deal. The Bills think he has some years left and that backfield is in desperate need of a veteran leader, which is exactly the type of player that James is. Some say that 10 DBs is too many and we won't have room for people at other positions where we lack depth. As far as I can tell, the positions shape up like this. 1. O-Line-8 Players Jason Peters Derrick Dockery Melvin Fowler Brad Butler Langston Walker Duke Preston Kirk Chambers Jason Whittle 2. D-Line 10 Players Aaron Schobel Marcus Stroud John McCargo Chris Kelsay Chris Ellis Kyle Williams Spencer Johnson Ryan Denney Jason Jefferson Al Wallace 3. LB 6 players Kawika Mitchell Paul Pozluszny Angelo Crowell Keith Ellison John DiGiorgio ROOKIE 4. WR 6 players Lee Evans James Hardy Josh Reed Roscoe Parrish Justin Jenkins Steve Johnson 5. RB 4 Players Marshawn Lynch Fred Jackson Dwayne Wright Xavier Oman 6. FB 2 Players Mike Viti Damien Barnes 7. QB 3 Players Trent Edwards JP Losman Luke Drone 8. TE 5 Players Robert Royal Courtney Anderson Teyo Johnson Derek Schouman Derek Fine 9. CB 6 Players McGee McKelvin James Greer Youboty Corner 10. S 4 Players Donte Whitner Ko Simpson John Wendling George Wilson 11. P 1 player Brian Moorman 12. K 1 player Rian Lindell That is a total of 56 players. Three of them won't be starters and may be relegated to the practice squad. Further, it is likely that Al Wallace may not re-sign with the team, thus you have 55 players. Two won't be here. So, can the Bills carry 10 DBs on the roster and be successful? Absolutely. Against pass happy teams like NE and Cleveland, you need those talented DBs to go out and stop teams on third and long. We won't carry 2 FBs or 3 QBs, so that probably gets us to 53 players right there
Pete Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 We are gonna keep 6 I bet and I am sure Cox is gonna get a look at free safety. I thought we might of been more interested in drafting Reggie Smith just because he can play S or CB and it frees up a roster spot.
Dibs Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 6. FB 2 PlayersMike Viti Damien Barnes 8. TE 5 Players Robert Royal Courtney Anderson Teyo Johnson Derek Schouman Derek Fine 7 for FB & TE.....I wouldn't think so.
obie_wan Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 We won't carry 2 FBs or 3 QBs, so that probably gets us to 53 players right there they need a long snapper - bonus if one of the TEs or Ol can do it. LS 1 OL 9 DL 8 LB 6 WR 6 RB-FB 5 QB 3 TE 3 CB 6 S 4 P 1 K 1 53 1. They should keep 9 OL so they can develop some young talent (maybe one goes to the PS) 2. they will probably keep 5 RB/FB. This may go to 6 if they are really serious about running the ball and one of the RB can double as a WR in 5 WR patterns. 3. Probably keep 6 WRs, but might only be 5 if TE or RB is a capable receiver and CB can be gunners
stuckincincy Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 1. They should keep 9 OL so they can develop some young talent (maybe one goes to the PS) 2. they will probably keep 5 RB/FB. This may go to 6 if they are really serious about running the ball and one of the RB can double as a WR in 5 WR patterns. 3. Probably keep 6 WRs, but might only be 5 if TE or RB is a capable receiver and CB can be gunners I can't see much sense in keeping more than 3 RBs and 1 FB. I'd only keep a 4th RB if he was a particularly good asset on STs, or if I didn't want to expose him to getting plucked off of the practice squad.
Pyrite Gal Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 I gotta think someone (or two) are gonna get serious looks at safety. Definately Cox. That said, the number we keep depends on their contributions to special teams. GO BILLS!!! I completely agree that ST will make the difference as to whether we keep 5 or 6 or possibly more. I think at a minimum we likely keep 5 to fill the position need 2 starters, a nickel who is a near starter and two players who are the prime back-ups iin case one gets injured and I has a nick at the same time (a likelyhood unfortunately in today's NFL). The question of whether they keep 5, 6, or possibly even 7 almost certainly comes down to ST play. Right now my sense is: McGee- A definite keeper and the #1 CB for now. Though some folks rag on him, he actually responded nicely to his benching year before last and he is a good example of how even vets need to play and adjust to making the complex reads in a Cover 2. As a vet who learned his lessons by screwing up year before last, he has a combination of athleticism and height that makes him our choice until proven otherwise to take on an opponent looking for a jump ball in the endzone. Greer- He surprised last year with his play that made him an adequate #2 CB. He was plan D at CB but after Webster and Thomas both ended up on he IR and Youbouty suffered nagging injuries and never established himself as a player Greer took the job and played well considering we had such a poor pass rush and the opposing QB often had plenty of time. Still his stature is a little short and his job could be had. In the past he had been spectacular at times in pre-season but never showed the same in regular season. He needs to build upon his surprising performance of last season in camp to be taken seriously over the hopes for McKelvin. McKelvin, the conventional wisdom (which is false) among many fans and the media is that a first round pick MUST start in his first year (at the beginning of last season only slightly over half were first on the depth chart at their position after a year of play in'06). Still, the Bills hopes (expectations?) for McKelvin are that he will soon break into the line-up at least as a nickle since he came as close as one can to be an elite choice (which I define as a player who wins a top 10 pick). This will likely depend on how fast McKelvin masters the NFL Cover 2 which even vets routinely say they must play in it for a year before they really master it. Many folks have huge expectations for McKelvin to immediately emerge as a player who can cover WRs all over the field when actually our base D scheme will not even require that of him (the media will be happy to fan the flames and prematurely raise the "bust" question even if he shows the normal growing pains of a young player. Since he was a great return guy in college, there is always this fall back and even if he is not quite ready for position play the Bills would then likely give him even more of a chance to contribute on ST. I hope he comes in and takes a starting slot at CB BUT I expect we will see him take the nickel slot. I will be disappointed but not surprised if ST is his major calling card. We will see. Youbouty- After an aborted first year due to the death of his Mom and his being the oldest remaining kid, last year was really his first year (he actually did impress his true rookie year winning a start in the win over NYJ and making some nice tackles as a gunner on ST). However, he did not perform up to hopes (expectations by some) at CB last year. He did not at least command the nickel slot and meet our biggest hopes of commanding the #2 slot after Webster and Thomas went on IR. Those who have given up on him really look like they simply have their panties all in a wad rather than dealing with reality. Its still way too soon to write him off and he has shown a couple of flashes of good play in the two years. However, flashes are merely flashes and his third year he needs to show that his nagging injuries were a fluke and in the face of heavy competition from vets (McGee and Greer), a well regarded rookie (McKelvin), an FA pick-up (James) and other bright eyed youngsters (Corner is interesting in particular) he will need to establish his position or it may be adios NEXT season. This season he likely gets a couple of shots but he will need to produce. Based on his past performance he likely can do this in some highlight reel episodes (though some nattering ninnies will want to throw him off the bus for little good reason right now) but the most important thing for him to show is consistency. This is the big question mark. James- He is a vet who has been around since 200O says something positive for him. He played 14 games and a semo-prominent role for Philly last year which also says something for him. Philly did not successfully hang onto him even though they wanted to move Lito Shepard and will have openings which does not say a lot for him. He likely was surprised as anyone that the Bills made a lot of moves to acquire CBs in this draft and he likely better make a name for himself as an ST stalwart as achieving even the #4 CB slot would be an accomplishment for this vet. Corner- An interesting pick by the Bills. The obviously valued him spending a 4th rounder on him so he is far more than camp fodder. Yet, one of the weaknesses on this team even as far as the limited pass protection duties of the CB in our version of the Cover 2 is on fade routes by tall receivers. Corner is a tremendous athlete with great leaping ability but the simple fact is that he is a midget even for a CB. He had a rep in college an aggressive player but did not show much in run support. Corner strikes me as a player who had Bobby April support written all over him for a prominent role on an ST that must be restocked badly. Aggression in tackling is difficult to teach but he has that big time. Great leaping ability and overall athleticism is also difficult to teach (though it can be perfected) but he has that. Better tackling technique though can be taught and given that he does not seem to fit the classic mold for position play at CB, ST is likely going to be the prime contribution of this player. Cox- The Bills have an interest in him beyond the norm as we drafted him. However, some question whether he has CB speed and his ability to pass cover but he has shown good run support work so perhaps he is a safety in waiting. However, if he can be trained up in press coverage with his aggression and generally restricted to short zone coverage perhaps the CB role in the classic Cover 2 works for him. Again ST will tell the tale about his contributions as a Bill. Overall, the CB harvest for the Bills seems to have us moving beyond the Cover 2 which Fewell says we run 25% of the time and the Tampa 2 variant which we also run a lot. When one factors in these two schemes, and the numerous plays in the red zone or the down and distance do not mandate much deep zone coverage, it really is only in the time to time circumstance that our CB is required to cover the WR all over the field. My sense is that we are arming up to go with the potential to run a very different style defense than the Cover 2 model which has been our base D.
SuperKillerRobots Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Buffalo will have ten DBs on the roster and will then probably have two more on the PS, just in case we get super low like last year. In a league that is becoming increasingly pass happy, you need a lot of good DBs who can come in and cover teams that go five wide on third and long. James will NOT BE CUT. He is the biggest corner we have plus he signed a multi-year deal. The Bills think he has some years left and that backfield is in desperate need of a veteran leader, which is exactly the type of player that James is. Some say that 10 DBs is too many and we won't have room for people at other positions where we lack depth. As far as I can tell, the positions shape up like this. 1. O-Line-8 Players Jason Peters Derrick Dockery Melvin Fowler Brad Butler Langston Walker Duke Preston Kirk Chambers Jason Whittle 2. D-Line 10 Players Aaron Schobel Marcus Stroud John McCargo Chris Kelsay Chris Ellis Kyle Williams Spencer Johnson Ryan Denney Jason Jefferson Al Wallace 3. LB 6 players Kawika Mitchell Paul Pozluszny Angelo Crowell Keith Ellison John DiGiorgio ROOKIE 4. WR 6 players Lee Evans James Hardy Josh Reed Roscoe Parrish Justin Jenkins Steve Johnson 5. RB 4 Players Marshawn Lynch Fred Jackson Dwayne Wright Xavier Oman 6. FB 2 Players Mike Viti Damien Barnes 7. QB 3 Players Trent Edwards JP Losman Luke Drone 8. TE 5 Players Robert Royal Courtney Anderson Teyo Johnson Derek Schouman Derek Fine 9. CB 6 Players McGee McKelvin James Greer Youboty Corner 10. S 4 Players Donte Whitner Ko Simpson John Wendling George Wilson 11. P 1 player Brian Moorman 12. K 1 player Rian Lindell That is a total of 56 players. Three of them won't be starters and may be relegated to the practice squad. Further, it is likely that Al Wallace may not re-sign with the team, thus you have 55 players. Two won't be here. So, can the Bills carry 10 DBs on the roster and be successful? Absolutely. Against pass happy teams like NE and Cleveland, you need those talented DBs to go out and stop teams on third and long. There you go. I got rid of four players to bring you down to 52. The 53rd guy should be Bryan Scott at SS.
obie_wan Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 There you go. I got rid of four players to bring you down to 52. The 53rd guy should be Bryan Scott at SS. keeping only 7 OL would be typical of the Bills ignorance of its importance. However, even the Bills are not that stupid.
SuperKillerRobots Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 keeping only 7 OL would be typical of the Bills ignorance of its importance. However, even the Bills are not that stupid. You might be right - they might only keep 2 QBs too. I think I forgot the long snapper too, so that would actually be back to 54 with only 2 QBs and the snapper. The best senario would probably be if some one besides the now-sixth defensive end on the roster can long-snap.
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