Sketch Soland Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 My take on Jauron: 1] In all the years of coaching, this coming season for the Bills will be the most talent he has ever had on a team, and that talent is around the middle of the pack. He has never coached a team with any real talent. So it's impossible to say what kind of coach he will be with any talent. 2] NFL head coaches have to be able to do MANY things well all at the same time. Most of them are good at one or two of them, a few of the best are good at most all of them. In short, they are 1] win, 2] motivate their players and get the best out of them, 3] game plan for the upcoming game, 4] make in game decisions and changes. (Some coaches are also responsible for stocking their teams, and Jauron is a person who has a lot of say but not all) Looking at it this way, Jauron has only shown so far to be able to motivate his players and get the best out of them. He has not been able to win, he is not a master-game planner, and he has not really shown that he consistently makes good in game decisions and changes. A lot of that has to do with the talent he was given, and what he has proven is that he can get the most out of a team with marginal talent. That's why he still has a job and that's why he deserves a chance this year. But what he is clearly good at doesn't matter any more, because he has some talent, and he now must prove he can do the other essential things that a coach must do: win, game plan, and make good in game decisions that lead to wins. All three of those things are unknowns at this point. But IMO must be proven this year. One could argue, and I am one who believes this, that he has shown a decent ability to game plan because he got the Bills to play above their talent level and in a position to win games they probably shouldn't have won. In some respects that's true. But it's only half the equation, and that conservative style won't beat you good teams on a consistent basis and won't get you far in the playoffs unless you have a completely dominant defense. So while his game planning did well with what he had to work with, he still hasn't shown any ability to get a team to just go out and beat the other team. It may not be his fault but you cannot assume he can do it, because nothing in his history has shown that ability. The jury is out for him and he needs to prove it early this September. 3] In regard to respect around the league, Jauron seems to be very highly regarded, but that IMO has nothing to do with his qualities as a head coach. It has only to do with his qualities as a man. Players love to play for him because he treats them with respect. Management loves him because he's a smart, solid, experienced professional. The press loves him for the most part because he's a good guy and he respects them (although they can never get much out of him). So when all these accolades come out about what a great reputation he has around the league, it is very well earned, but really has little to do with his coaching abilities. Great post, Kelly. Well said. We shall see what Jauron does this year. It will tell the tale, imo.
Lurker Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 Why on earth would you only mention the last 7 seasons? The man took a virtual expansion team deep into the playoffs. Here is his career record. I trust that you are not comparing Jauron to Coughlin in terms of coaching ability. You aren't, right? If you read the post, you must have seen I was responding to this: how else could you explain how a guy with a .437 coaching record over seven seasons can still have a head coaching job. I pointed out that Coughlin has 6 more regular season wins than Jauron over the last seven year period. Coughlin was on very thin ice with the NYC media and fans at the start of last season. Funny how your IQ and reputation can get rehabilitated by finally getting above average QB play, getting a little help in the team health dept. and having Brady coming up with a bum ankle. I've said my piece on this anti-DJ issue. The prune faced contingent of TSW seems to value bitching and moaning ubber allis, which gets old real fast.
Sketch Soland Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 The prune faced contingent of TSW seems to value bitching and moaning ubber allis Nice phrase!
1billsfan Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 I've said my piece on this anti-DJ issue. The prune faced contingent of TSW seems to value bitching and moaning ubber allis, which gets old real fast. Oh please, spare us the drama-filled hyperbole. I'm just telling you how I see it, if it hurts your feelings that I think Jauron stinks as an NFL head coach then you're just going to have to pull yourself together and get over it man. The ones who agree with me are tired of hearing how Jauron is the next Tom Coughlin or Bill Belichick. Those guys are tough head coaches coaches that train their teams hard, have very few injured players and coach to win, not to not lose their games. Three things Jauron knows nothing about. There are good coaches like Belichick and Coughlin, then there's the pushovers like Dick Jauron. He's the classic nice guy finishing last. All I know is if this team lays down like they did twice against the Pats and the last three games of 2007, then Jauron should and hopefully will have punched his ticket out of Buffalo. He stinks, yes I said it. Let's see him prove the apparently few doubters like me wrong. I'd love to see it, but sadly I don't see that happening. Just ask a Bears fan if they have ever missed Jauron.
ax4782 Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 Oh please, spare us the drama-filled hyperbole. I'm just telling you how I see it, if it hurts your feelings that I think Jauron stinks as an NFL head coach then you're just going to have to pull yourself together and get over it man. The ones who agree with me are tired of hearing how Jauron is the next Tom Coughlin or Bill Belichick. Those guys are tough head coaches coaches that train their teams hard, have very few injured players and coach to win, not to not lose their games. Three things Jauron knows nothing about. There are good coaches like Belichick and Coughlin, then there's the pushovers like Dick Jauron. He's the classic nice guy finishing last. All I know is if this team lays down like they did twice against the Pats and the last three games of 2007, then Jauron should and hopefully will have punched his ticket out of Buffalo. He stinks, yes I said it. Let's see him prove the apparently few doubters like me wrong. I'd love to see it, but sadly I don't see that happening. Just ask a Bears fan if they have ever missed Jauron. And there are people who think that taking the position that the HC for any team is coaching to lose games is completely ridiculous. You have clearly stated that you don't like Jauron. Fine. You haven't really given a good reason why you took that position except to bluster and blow hot air with "facts" that are clearly in dispute. Over the last seven years Coughlin has a WORSE record as a head coach than Jauron. That's a fact. During those years, Coughlin has BETTER TALENT than Jauron. That's a fact. Perhaps before we judge that a guy is terrible, he should be given an opportunity to coach with players who are talented enough to make the playoffs. This year, Buffalo may finally have that kind of talent. Let's see how he does with a fully healed and talented roster before we make judgment calls and thrown the FO and the team into another three years of chaos by bringing in a new coach, new staff, and most significantly an entirely new system for them to have to learn. No coach turns an unbelievably crappy team around in two years. No one. It takes at least three years to get a team back to fighting shape. We are finally there and Jauron deserves his shot. Stop whining until you actually have something tangible to complain about.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 Oh please, spare us the drama-filled hyperbole. I'm just telling you how I see it, if it hurts your feelings that I think Jauron stinks as an NFL head coach then you're just going to have to pull yourself together and get over it man. The ones who agree with me are tired of hearing how Jauron is the next Tom Coughlin or Bill Belichick. Those guys are tough head coaches coaches that train their teams hard, have very few injured players and coach to win, not to not lose their games. Three things Jauron knows nothing about. There are good coaches like Belichick and Coughlin, then there's the pushovers like Dick Jauron. He's the classic nice guy finishing last. All I know is if this team lays down like they did twice against the Pats and the last three games of 2007, then Jauron should and hopefully will have punched his ticket out of Buffalo. He stinks, yes I said it. Let's see him prove the apparently few doubters like me wrong. I'd love to see it, but sadly I don't see that happening. Just ask a Bears fan if they have ever missed Jauron. Tony Dungy.
Beerball Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 You haven't really given a good reason why you took that position I can give you several reasons though I keep tellin myself I'm done with this nonsensical argument: Wins Losses Steve Fairchild QB roulette Overall philosophy He's cuter than I am
ax4782 Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 I can give you several reasons though I keep tellin myself I'm done with this nonsensical argument:Wins Losses Steve Fairchild QB roulette Overall philosophy He's cuter than I am And I think that everyone here agrees that the second part of the statement I made, which you are quoting, covers the reasons you stated before.
1billsfan Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 And there are people who think that taking the position that the HC for any team is coaching to lose games is completely ridiculous. You have clearly stated that you don't like Jauron. Fine. You haven't really given a good reason why you took that position except to bluster and blow hot air with "facts" that are clearly in dispute. Over the last seven years Coughlin has a WORSE record as a head coach than Jauron. That's a fact. During those years, Coughlin has BETTER TALENT than Jauron. That's a fact. Perhaps before we judge that a guy is terrible, he should be given an opportunity to coach with players who are talented enough to make the playoffs. This year, Buffalo may finally have that kind of talent. Let's see how he does with a fully healed and talented roster before we make judgment calls and thrown the FO and the team into another three years of chaos by bringing in a new coach, new staff, and most significantly an entirely new system for them to have to learn. No coach turns an unbelievably crappy team around in two years. No one. It takes at least three years to get a team back to fighting shape. We are finally there and Jauron deserves his shot. Stop whining until you actually have something tangible to complain about. You didn't read it correctly. I said he wasn't coaching to win like Coughlin and Belichick clearly do, but rather he coaches to "not lose" the game. I never suggested he coaches to lose games. As for Coughlin, you're leaving out the tremendous amount of cache he had earned in Jacksonville coaching his teams to 11-5, 11-5, and 14-2 consecutively before the wheels fell off and was fired after three losing seasons. Jauron has never had that kind of sustained success, his only claimed is the magic-dust year he won 13 games with a team that had what was widely considered the most fortunate lucky bounce season ever. Coughlin had a proven track record that Jauron still can't touch, even after his fall from grace with the Jaguars. Dick is going to get his chance this year, but if I don't see a major change in attitude when we face the good teams of the league, then I will be here giving Jauron both barrels full of criticism. Last year made me angry watching how we were coached, this year he has to actually earn his freaking job and light a fire under our player's asses when they face the Pats. I could give a crap about beating the sh_tty NFL teams, that should be a given and no big deal to this team. Stop your pity party for Jauron, the guy's lived a charmed life considering his now very long head coaching career and having a very lackluster .437 record.
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 And I think that everyone here agrees that the second part of the statement I made, which you are quoting, covers the reasons you stated before. The won/loss record is one of your so-called "'facts' in dispute"? And, now you proclaim to speak for everyone.
Lurker Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 Oh please, spare us the drama-filled hyperbole. I'm just telling you how I see it, if it hurts your feelings that I think Jauron stinks as an NFL head coach then you're just going to have to pull yourself together and get over it man. Thanks. I'm going to turn on Dr. Phil right now....
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 You didn't read it correctly. I said he wasn't coaching to win like Coughlin and Belichick clearly do, but rather he coaches to "not lose" the game. I never suggested he coaches to lose games. As for Coughlin, you're leaving out the tremendous amount of cache he had earned in Jacksonville coaching his teams to 11-5, 11-5, and 14-2 consecutively before the wheels fell off and was fired after three losing seasons. Jauron has never had that kind of sustained success, his only claimed is the magic-dust year he won 13 games with a team that had what was widely considered the most fortunate lucky bounce season ever. Coughlin had a proven track record that Jauron still can't touch, even after his fall from grace with the Jaguars. Dick is going to get his chance this year, but if I don't see a major change in attitude when we face the good teams of the league, then I will be here giving Jauron both barrels full of criticism. Last year made me angry watching how we were coached, this year he has to actually earn his freaking job and light a fire under our player's asses when they face the Pats. I could give a crap about beating the sh_tty NFL teams, that should be a given and no big deal to this team. Stop your pity party for Jauron, the guy's lived a charmed life considering his now very long head coaching career and having a very lackluster .437 record. Shouldn't the difference in competitive balance between the NFC East and the AFC East be self-evident to anyone that actually watches the games?
ax4782 Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 You didn't read it correctly. I said he wasn't coaching to win like Coughlin and Belichick clearly do, but rather he coaches to "not lose" the game. I never suggested he coaches to lose games. As for Coughlin, you're leaving out the tremendous amount of cache he had earned in Jacksonville coaching his teams to 11-5, 11-5, and 14-2 consecutively before the wheels fell off and was fired after three losing seasons. Jauron has never had that kind of sustained success, his only claimed is the magic-dust year he won 13 games with a team that had what was widely considered the most fortunate lucky bounce season ever. Coughlin had a proven track record that Jauron still can't touch, even after his fall from grace with the Jaguars. Dick is going to get his chance this year, but if I don't see a major change in attitude when we face the good teams of the league, then I will be here giving Jauron both barrels full of criticism. Last year made me angry watching how we were coached, this year he has to actually earn his freaking job and light a fire under our player's asses when they face the Pats. I could give a crap about beating the sh_tty NFL teams, that should be a given and no big deal to this team. Stop your pity party for Jauron, the guy's lived a charmed life considering his now very long head coaching career and having a very lackluster .437 record. To be accurate, you did state that Jauron coached to lose games. However, I understand your point. I like how when Jauron has a season where his team was 8-0 in games decided by 7 points or less, that was a magic dust season, that could never have been attributed to his coaching ability. I also don't think that the team laid down against those opponents. The Patriots won all of their games last year and the only one that was close was the giants. They made a habit of crushing opponents by 20+ points almost week in and week out. Buffalo never quit in the Browns or Eagle's games either. They played hard to the end. Jauron got PS players to compete against the best in the business and I give him cudos for that. I also don't think their competitive fire is what needs motivation. Had Buffalo been playing with a full deck on D last year I think we win a number of those close games that we ended up losing. This year, I think, Buffalo will be much improved. Lastly, you statement that you don't give a crap about beating bad teams is oxymoronic. You would be horrified if we lost to one, for good reason. However, beating bad teams consistently demonstrates two things. One, that you aren't a sh-t team, but rather are at least mediocre. Better teams beat the teams they are supposed too. During the Mularkey and Williams eras, it was always a question whether the team would even beat the bottom feeders. Now, I don't have that concern. I am happy no matter who we beat. And he's only been a head coach for six total years. He has had stints as a coordinator during the interim. And for the record, most coaches don't have a great winning percentage their first six years in the league. Belicheat, Billick, Dungy, Gruden all of them took time to get their feet wet as a head coach. Jauron has started to turn this team around and the FO has done a very good job at getting him the talent he needs to succeed. Buffalo should stick with him for at least this season and maybe one more and I think that will pay dividends. By then, he will have more than enough talent for this team to be successful, and if we're not, then I'll agree that it's time to let him go. A coaching carousel is worse than a QB carousel and this franchise has been getting on and off that ride for too long.
ax4782 Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 The won/loss record is one of your so-called "'facts' in dispute"? And, now you proclaim to speak for everyone. Actually, yes. People have cited his W/L record to say that he is a bad coach, including yourself. As I stated to you before, W/L is not the only thing that demonstrates a good coach. You have to look at the reality behind that record. The fact that Jauron had no team in Chicago and did put together one very good coaching effort in the 13-3 season makes me question the reason he has that record. Oh, that's right, because he has been called in to take over teams that have been terrible. Jauron got the wheels back on the franchise in Chicago, and not too many years after he left they were in the SB. I'm NOT SAYING THAT IS ATTRIBUTABLE TO JAURON, so please don't say that I am. What I am insinuating is that perhaps part of his effort to turn the team around, played a partial role in the team's later success. Seeing as how you and Beerball are the only two on this page who seem to hate Jauron, and that you are now beating a dead horse with an argument that is clearly on unstable footing, yes, I think I can say that most everyone is tired of the pessimism on this board, and would much rather prefer to hear it when it can be based on more than a set of whining and crying facts that we don't have last years SB winning coach and wouldn't it be grand if we did. Funny how when Coughlin was in NY and terrible, everyone thought he was a joke of a coach. Then he wins the SB and he's suddenly the standard by which all other current coaches should be judged. Yeah, because his season this year couldn't possibly have been one based on magic-dust?
ax4782 Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 Shouldn't the difference in competitive balance between the NFC East and the AFC East be self-evident to anyone that actually watches the games? And ten years ago, the opposite was true. That's football, folks, the tide changes over time. Right now, the AFC East is down and dominated, but that seems to be changing. The NFC East is strong with three teams that could be in the playoffs again next year. But the fact is, the NFC is the far weaker conference, and if the Giants and Redskins were AFC teams, they would not have even made the playoffs last year.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 But the fact is, the NFC is the far weaker conference, and if the Giants and Redskins were AFC teams, they would not have even made the playoffs last year. You can't say that with any certainty whatsoever. The Titans got in and the Giants were a much better team than the Titans.
ax4782 Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 You can't say that with any certainty whatsoever. The Titans got in and the Giants were a much better team than the Titans. No statement about the current affairs in the NFL is certain. I'll grant you that. But across the board, the AFC has better competition week in and week out. If the Giants had Tennessee's schedule from last year, they wouldn't have made the playoffs, IMO. I also think that a couple of very solid teams in the AFC had off years last year as well. I do, however, think I could say with some certainty, that if Buffalo had been in any NFC conference besides the NFC east last year, we could have won ten games and made it to the playoffs with the way the team played down the stretch. Just my opinion.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 so wait... 1billsfan DOESNT like Jauron? thats strange... what did Dick say after you told him he was on the hotseat? any response to that yet?
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 No statement about the current affairs in the NFL is certain. I'll grant you that. But across the board, the AFC has better competition week in and week out. If the Giants had Tennessee's schedule from last year, they wouldn't have made the playoffs, IMO. I also think that a couple of very solid teams in the AFC had off years last year as well. I do, however, think I could say with some certainty, that if Buffalo had been in any NFC conference besides the NFC east last year, we could have won ten games and made it to the playoffs with the way the team played down the stretch. Just my opinion. I don't think the schedules differed at all. They both played about real five tough games total. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2007.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/2007.htm
Beerball Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 And I think that everyone here agrees that the second part of the statement I made, which you are quoting, covers the reasons you stated before. Won loss record is disputed? Having Steve Fairchild call play for the final games last year is in dispute? All thumbs handling of our QBs last year is in dispute? Common axle, you certainly can do better than that. OK, let me ask you to give me a list...Please list all games that the Bills have won during Jauron's reign where you were skeptical of our chances going in.
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