Best Case Scenario

[K-9]

Poor DJ????

 

...Remember how bad the 2-14 '85 and half of '86 Hank Bullough Bills were? Well Marv Levy got them to a 12-4 record after only a season and a half...

 

Them? I agree some key pieces were in place and I don't take anything away from Marv but he took a VERY different kind of team to that 12-4 record in '88.

 

That said, Bullough ranks as the worst HC in Bills' history. And that's saying something.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[eball]

Remember how bad the 2-14 '85 and half of '86 Hank Bullough Bills were? Well Marv Levy got them to a 12-4 record after only a season and a half.

 

Remember how bad the 2-14 '92 Dick MacPherson Pats were? Well Bill Parcells got them to 10-6 after only one season.

 

Remember how bad the 1-15 '96 Rich Kotite Jets were? Well Bill Parcells got them to 9-7 the following season and 12-4/AFC Championship game the season after that.

 

Remember how bad the 5-11 '02 Dave Campo Cowboys were? Well Bill Parcells got them to 10-6 the following season.

The only thing of interest to me in this post is the fact you've just named perhaps four of the worst coaches to ever be handed the reigns of an NFL ship.

 

Good God, those guys stunk. At least Bullough was good for a quote or two each week.

[Lurker]

how else could you explain how a guy with a .437 coaching record over seven seasons can still have a head coaching job.

Tom Coughlin's record over the last seven seasons is .482--representing one more win per year.

 

Catching 'lightning in a bottle' can sure make a difference in coaching reputation, though.

[ax4782]

Interesting revisionist history there axle. You seem to be missing one very large point about last year...jests, phins. Coaching actually cost us a game or two last year. But, that wasn't Jauron's fault.

 

So, players are accountable when they don't play up to expectations and don't execute the offense? Someone better tell Poz he's responsible for how the offense is executed. Players aren't responsible for wins & losses and coaches aren't responsible for wins & losses. Interesting concept.

 

Perhaps you need to check YOUR memory there pall. Buffalo WON all four of those games, including one game against the Jets on a great last minute drive that set up a game winning field goal.

 

As for holding Poz responsible for anything that occured during last season, that would be stupid. He was on IR the whole season, if you'll recall. And furthermore, no one was suggesting that defensive players should be held responsible for anyone's mistakes but their own, and vice versa for offensive players. My point was, you want to blame the HC for everything that could possibly go wrong during a game or during the season without taking any factors known as reality into account. I never said the Jauron was the best coach ever, or that he didn't make mistakes. I just think people need to consider the reality of the situation rather than closing it off from what fits conveniently into their own world of whine.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

Basically it is his personality. Some people like loudmouth wankers as a HC.

Actually some of us would like a little deception in the play calling.... occasionally.

But I do like Jauron and hope he can put some fear in other teams.. occasionally.

Just looking for SOME creativity. Maybe, the injuries played a part.... but I don't seem to remember the Bears being a very interesting nor creative team on offense. Being predictable is bad news in war and football.

 

I think this team will have it's BEST CASE SCENARIO with many of the things mentioned along with James Hardy making some redzone TD's (ergo Lindall making XP's not FG's) and Chris Ellis providing the DB's with some relief by pressuring the other teams QB and not letting him sit back and pick us apart.

[Lurker]

what fits conveniently into their own world of whine.

Well stated....

[Rock'em Sock'em]

Cute attempt....but Belicheat was a helluva coach going 11-5 with a crap Clevekand organization and was the reason Parcells won anything.

However...YES--Jauron has had garbage to work with at QB.I have my doubts --seeing how anal rentative the guy is in his coaching style---but I woulda said the same thing about Coughlin not too long ago.We'll see.

Belichick had 5 seasons with the Browns and 1 winning record. Went 5-11 with Bledsoe in 2000 first season in New England. Fell to 0-2 in 2001. Enter Brady.

[Beerball]

Perhaps you need to check YOUR memory there pall. Buffalo WON all four of those games, including one game against the Jets on a great last minute drive that set up a game winning field goal.

 

As for holding Poz responsible for anything that occured during last season, that would be stupid. He was on IR the whole season, if you'll recall. And furthermore, no one was suggesting that defensive players should be held responsible for anyone's mistakes but their own, and vice versa for offensive players. My point was, you want to blame the HC for everything that could possibly go wrong during a game or during the season without taking any factors known as reality into account. I never said the Jauron was the best coach ever, or that he didn't make mistakes. I just think people need to consider the reality of the situation rather than closing it off from what fits conveniently into their own world of whine.

Listen dummy--you said Fairchild was FIRED check your friggin facts you gigantasaurous maroon. You also said the players were responsible for the offense. Poz plays defense ya gigantasaurous maroon, I could have just as easily said McGee or Triplett or Denny or...well, you get the point don't ya?

 

As for the jests and phins, the point is they are gawdawful bad teams. We garnered 4 wins against them...don't you think we should have you gigantasaurous maroon?

 

When we start winning games that we shouldn't then talk to me about coaching. Jauron is mediocre at best.

 

Tell me about the Cleveland game. Tell me about the Dallas game. I could go on, but you can't admit the fact that we only beat teams crappier than us. Now that the talent level has been increased I see better days ahead, but not because Jauron is a good coach.

[thebug]

Listen dummy--you said Fairchild was FIRED check your friggin facts you gigantasaurous maroon. You also said the players were responsible for the offense. Poz plays defense ya gigantasaurous maroon, I could have just as easily said McGee or Triplett or Denny or...well, you get the point don't ya?

 

As for the jests and phins, the point is they are gawdawful bad teams. We garnered 4 wins against them...don't you think we should have you gigantasaurous maroon?

 

When we start winning games that we shouldn't then talk to me about coaching. Jauron is mediocre at best.

 

Tell me about the Cleveland game. Tell me about the Dallas game. I could go on, but you can't admit the fact that we only beat teams crappier than us. Now that the talent level has been increased I see better days ahead, but not because Jauron is a good coach.

 

 

I think you need a beer! Cheers!

 

 

GO BILLS!

[Beerball]

I think you need a beer! Cheers!

 

 

GO BILLS!

[ax4782]

Listen dummy--you said Fairchild was FIRED check your friggin facts you gigantasaurous maroon. You also said the players were responsible for the offense. Poz plays defense ya gigantasaurous maroon, I could have just as easily said McGee or Triplett or Denny or...well, you get the point don't ya?

 

As for the jests and phins, the point is they are gawdawful bad teams. We garnered 4 wins against them...don't you think we should have you gigantasaurous maroon?

 

When we start winning games that we shouldn't then talk to me about coaching. Jauron is mediocre at best.

 

Tell me about the Cleveland game. Tell me about the Dallas game. I could go on, but you can't admit the fact that we only beat teams crappier than us. Now that the talent level has been increased I see better days ahead, but not because Jauron is a good coach.

 

While I won't resort to childish tactics and attempt to insult your intelligence, I will try and respond to your "substantive" points in a civil manner. What you have clearly failed to understand is that SF was on his way out. He resigned to take a job at CSU. The reason he had to leave was because he knew if he didn't he was going to be fired. That was because the organization realized that he was not what they thought he was. Sometimes resigning means fired. Something that any person who watches the news with any regularity can understand. Fairchild wasn't "fired" but he ended up gone, which in the long run is better for everyone involved. The team benefited from him being gone because he was responsible or a lot of the problems on the offensive side of the ball.

 

And clearly, you didn't read what I posted. I said that when players underperform they should be held responsible. You may be able to stretch that to mean that the defense is somehow responsible for the failures of the offense, but a much more reasonable interpretation, and the one I intended is that when an individual underperforms, he should be responsible for what he does on the field. Again, Poz was on injured reserve all last season, a fact of which you must be aware, and thus cannot be held responsible for his play on the field. Like I said, the team played well above the level that anyone could have expected with twelve players on injured reserves and PS players in key positions on defense.

 

In the Dallas game, Jauron did what you argue he fails to do, that being taking risks. Inside the Dallas redzone, when they had a sure opportunity to add another three points (which would eventually have provided the margin of victory had they made such a decision). Instead, Jauron chose to try and put the game away for good and ordered a passing play to Evans. Edwards didn't make the best of throws, and rather than making an effort to go for the ball, he watched Terrence Newman grab the INT.

 

Notice that you were the one who was mistaken in your post citing the Jests and Phins games as low points or bad points for us during the season. Yet, we won all four of those games. Good teams have to start by beating the teams that they are supposed to beat, not just teams they aren't. You can't expect a new coach to turn a team around from what Mularkey left to a playoff team in two years with the players that existed on the roster. Anyone who thought that any coach was going to do that clearly doesn't understand the NFL and how the league functions. Also note, that teams have to show that they can compete with the best teams in the league before they can expect to beat them. Buffalo was competitive in almost every game last year, excepting the Patriots games. Cleveland didn't exactly spank us and the game was played in a blizzard. Not exactly the conditions I would have wanted to play in for such a pivotal game.

 

Lastly, if you want to insult someone by calling them a MORON, try spelling it correctly. I am not a dark shade of red known as MAROON. Nor would that in some way even be an insulting statement, unless you have some problems with the darker shades of color in the reddish hues. Yet, that being said, I was able to read your INTENT clearly, something that you seemed to have missed in my post. Either way, discussion boards are a better place for everyone when we can have a civil conversation and not resort to name calling. I may not have stated my position as clearly as I should have, but that is no reason for you to resort to personal attacks against a person you do not know over a subject about which there is clearly room for disagreement.

[Dibs]

While I won't resort to childish tactics and attempt to insult your intelligence, I will try and respond to your "substantive" points in a civil manner. What you have clearly failed to understand is that SF was on his way out. He resigned to take a job at CSU. The reason he had to leave was because he knew if he didn't he was going to be fired. That was because the organization realized that he was not what they thought he was. Sometimes resigning means fired. Something that any person who watches the news with any regularity can understand. Fairchild wasn't "fired" but he ended up gone, which in the long run is better for everyone involved. The team benefited from him being gone because he was responsible or a lot of the problems on the offensive side of the ball.

 

And clearly, you didn't read what I posted. I said that when players underperform they should be held responsible. You may be able to stretch that to mean that the defense is somehow responsible for the failures of the offense, but a much more reasonable interpretation, and the one I intended is that when an individual underperforms, he should be responsible for what he does on the field. Again, Poz was on injured reserve all last season, a fact of which you must be aware, and thus cannot be held responsible for his play on the field. Like I said, the team played well above the level that anyone could have expected with twelve players on injured reserves and PS players in key positions on defense.

 

In the Dallas game, Jauron did what you argue he fails to do, that being taking risks. Inside the Dallas redzone, when they had a sure opportunity to add another three points (which would eventually have provided the margin of victory had they made such a decision). Instead, Jauron chose to try and put the game away for good and ordered a passing play to Evans. Edwards didn't make the best of throws, and rather than making an effort to go for the ball, he watched Terrence Newman grab the INT.

 

Notice that you were the one who was mistaken in your post citing the Jests and Phins games as low points or bad points for us during the season. Yet, we won all four of those games. Good teams have to start by beating the teams that they are supposed to beat, not just teams they aren't. You can't expect a new coach to turn a team around from what Mularkey left to a playoff team in two years with the players that existed on the roster. Anyone who thought that any coach was going to do that clearly doesn't understand the NFL and how the league functions. Also note, that teams have to show that they can compete with the best teams in the league before they can expect to beat them. Buffalo was competitive in almost every game last year, excepting the Patriots games. Cleveland didn't exactly spank us and the game was played in a blizzard. Not exactly the conditions I would have wanted to play in for such a pivotal game.

 

Lastly, if you want to insult someone by calling them a MORON, try spelling it correctly. I am not a dark shade of red known as MAROON. Nor would that in some way even be an insulting statement, unless you have some problems with the darker shades of color in the reddish hues. Yet, that being said, I was able to read your INTENT clearly, something that you seemed to have missed in my post. Either way, discussion boards are a better place for everyone when we can have a civil conversation and not resort to name calling. I may not have stated my position as clearly as I should have, but that is no reason for you to resort to personal attacks against a person you do not know over a subject about which there is clearly room for disagreement.

If there was an applaud smiley I'd be putting it here.

Very maturely handled.

[Beerball]

While I won't resort to childish tactics and attempt to insult your intelligence, I will try and respond to your "substantive" points in a civil manner. What you have clearly failed to understand is that SF was on his way out. But yet our head coach let him finish out the season, and a rousing finish it was.

 

And clearly, you didn't read what I posted. I said that when players underperform they should be held responsible for the offense. In the Dallas game, Jauron did what you argue he fails to do, that being taking risks. Inside the Dallas redzone, when they had a sure opportunity to add another three points (which would eventually have provided the margin of victory had they made such a decision).

 

Notice that you were the one who was mistaken in your post citing the Jests and Phins games as low points or bad points for us during the season. Come talk to me when we beat someone better than us. A win is never a low point, but common man, let's not get all giddy over wins vs. the jests & phins.

 

Lastly, if you want to insult someone by calling them a MORON, try spelling it correctly. I am not a dark shade of red known as MAROON. My bad, your an jackass.

[ax4782]

I'll again try to respond to your comments without resorting to name calling. Actually, the Bills did have a decent finish last season. I'm not going to defend SF's playcalling and I never said that Jauron was perfect. I said I thought he has done a good job. Not getting rid of SF when it was clear that he wasn't getting the job done. That being said, there could have been a lot of reasons for why SF wasn't dismissed during the season that aren't so easily articulable.

 

I think you should go back and actually look at the statement that I made. I suppose that is why you have failed to actually cite to it when making your statements. I said that when players do not perform, they should be held accountable. Thus, if JP did not perform he should be held accountable for his failures. When any player does not perform, they should be held accountable. I never said, or even suggested that the defense was in any way responsible for the failings of the offense, or vice versa during last season. Players and coaches should be held responsible for what their failings, but most of the things that you have cited are much more clearly attributable to persons other than the HC. He has not been perfect, but he has the team on the right track. He deserves his chance with this team that he and the FO have put together. At least give him that chance.

 

I get excited about every win, just like any Bills fan whether it's over a team that we should beat or those that we upset. The fact is, the first sign that a team is improving is when they start winning the games they're supposed to win. You can't beat the other teams on a consistent basis until you consistently beat the teams you are supposed to. I don't think that statement is anything but obvious.

 

I'm glad to see that you spelled you insult correctly this time. However, your use of proper grammar while making such an insult could use some improvement.

[ax4782]

If there was an applaud smiley I'd be putting it here.

Very maturely handled.

 

Thanks. I find civility tends to lead to improved communication on issues, much more so than name calling and personal insults.

[ax4782]

No response? I'm shocked.

[Beerball]

No response? I'm shocked.

I didn't realize that one was required. Your feelings regarding your fondness for Dick are well stated.

[Bill from NYC]

Tom Coughlin's record over the last seven seasons is .482--representing one more win per year.

 

Catching 'lightning in a bottle' can sure make a difference in coaching reputation, though.

 

Why on earth would you only mention the last 7 seasons? The man took a virtual expansion team deep into the playoffs. Here is his career record.

 

I trust that you are not comparing Jauron to Coughlin in terms of coaching ability. You aren't, right?

[Kelly the Dog]

My take on Jauron:

 

1] In all the years of coaching, this coming season for the Bills will be the most talent he has ever had on a team, and that talent is around the middle of the pack. He has never coached a team with any real talent. So it's impossible to say what kind of coach he will be with any talent.

 

2] NFL head coaches have to be able to do MANY things well all at the same time. Most of them are good at one or two of them, a few of the best are good at most all of them. In short, they are 1] win, 2] motivate their players and get the best out of them, 3] game plan for the upcoming game, 4] make in game decisions and changes. (Some coaches are also responsible for stocking their teams, and Jauron is a person who has a lot of say but not all)

 

Looking at it this way, Jauron has only shown so far to be able to motivate his players and get the best out of them. He has not been able to win, he is not a master-game planner, and he has not really shown that he consistently makes good in game decisions and changes. A lot of that has to do with the talent he was given, and what he has proven is that he can get the most out of a team with marginal talent. That's why he still has a job and that's why he deserves a chance this year.

 

But what he is clearly good at doesn't matter any more, because he has some talent, and he now must prove he can do the other essential things that a coach must do: win, game plan, and make good in game decisions that lead to wins. All three of those things are unknowns at this point. But IMO must be proven this year.

 

One could argue, and I am one who believes this, that he has shown a decent ability to game plan because he got the Bills to play above their talent level and in a position to win games they probably shouldn't have won. In some respects that's true. But it's only half the equation, and that conservative style won't beat you good teams on a consistent basis and won't get you far in the playoffs unless you have a completely dominant defense. So while his game planning did well with what he had to work with, he still hasn't shown any ability to get a team to just go out and beat the other team. It may not be his fault but you cannot assume he can do it, because nothing in his history has shown that ability. The jury is out for him and he needs to prove it early this September.

 

3] In regard to respect around the league, Jauron seems to be very highly regarded, but that IMO has nothing to do with his qualities as a head coach. It has only to do with his qualities as a man. Players love to play for him because he treats them with respect. Management loves him because he's a smart, solid, experienced professional. The press loves him for the most part because he's a good guy and he respects them (although they can never get much out of him). So when all these accolades come out about what a great reputation he has around the league, it is very well earned, but really has little to do with his coaching abilities.

[ChevyVanMiller]

A coach should have ample time to steer a team... and in the case of talent and the Bills, just treading water is a challenge...

 

Being a small market team, the Bills can't always keep the talent they need to make a breakthrough...

 

Therefore, a coach like Jauron has to stockpile whereever he can to keep talent at a position... and fend off the injuries that very well may happen... Anyone who saw a team, especially its defense, starting 4th stringers and street free agents by the middle of the season realizes that Jauron pulled off a small miracle keeping the team competitive... and actually winning 7 games while staying in the playoff hunt into December...

 

and that was only the regime's 2nd year, fellas... after having to come in with new schemes and fix the personnel mess TD left behind, I like the direction this regime is taking.... There has been an influx of draft talent, they have re-signed a solid core of players that could have easily walked, and brought in some solid free agent additions...

 

Now, if Wilson fires Jauron after the season, all of that goes down the toilet.... Another coach with another philosophy comes in and starts molding the team in his image.... cutting some of Jauron's additions, letting some go in FA, and starting over...

 

Then, as usual, we are back to just treading water again...

 

Really, some of these posts don't surprise me... Some Bills fans have a reputation of knee-jerk reactions... finding a scapegoat to blame time and again, and running said scapegoat out of town... believing that the cancer he "caused" all by himself will now be cured... Jim Kelly's last year was a perfect example... Forget what the guy had already done for the team... as soon as it looked like he wasn't all-world anymore, he was booed, heckled, and made a scapegoat...

 

This does not reflect Bills fans as a majority... But unfortunately thanks to the few, we have all gained the whiney Red Sox reputation, blaming our team's problems on the newest sacrificial lamb, feeding him to the wolves, and then finding the next altar sacrifice when things aren't perfect...

 

But go ahead, fellas... Tell me how wrong I am and that your sh** doesn't stink...

 

Well said. Couldn't agree more. Btw, love your George Burns avatar.