Best Case Scenario

[1billsfan]

5 years

Your perception is out of whack in regards to how long on average it takes to find a good QB. It's hard enough to find a decent one but you'll notice that teams with OK QBs are constantly looking for better. At the moment I'd be happy enough for us to field a decent QB......but after a year or two will be crying out for a good one just like everyone else.

 

Some teams get lucky in being able to get another good QB within a few years of having one leave(retire) but it is the rare exception.....not the norm.

Cowboys are a good example......and they didn't even spend high picks at QB(generally locking teams into that player for longer).

Aikman retires in 2000.....they go through Carter, Hutchinson, Testiverde & Bledsoe before finding Romo 6 years later. Is it a coincidence that they become good at the same time that they land a good QB?

Elway retires in 1999.....they go through Griese, Kanell & Plummer before Cutler. If Cutler does not develop they will be looking at over 10 years in the QB wilderness and still be looking for a QB.

Have the Bucs ever had a reliable tong term QB?

Most teams have to wait for years before finding a good QB. Bills, Dolphins, Browns, Ravens, Texans, Broncos, Raiders, Redskins, Lions, Bears, Bucs, Panthers, Cardinals have all been waiting for years to find a good QB......Jets, Titans, Chiefs, Vikings, Packers, Falcons & 49ers may well be waiting for years to come before they find their QBs of the future.

 

Finding a QB who you can keep for a decade & is good enough to not seek their replacement is probably the hardest & most important part about building a team........and certainly should not be expected within a 5 year period.

 

I truly believe that if Dick Jauron were given the undiscovered Tom Brady or even Brent Favre, that both QBs would have had very NFL average careers. Everything in Jauron's DNA tells him that interceptions are a mortal sin and to never allow his QB throw a pass until it is absolutely necessary (see third and longs), and when he does feel a little crazy and let's him pass on first or second downs it is of the one to five yard variety. Jauron is a horrible head coach because he doesn't trust in his players to make plays and this is the reason his teams always suck against tough competition. No guts no glory, playing not to lose will get you beat more often then get you the victory. I hate, yes HATE, Dick Jauron's coaching style and can't wait till he's long gone from Buffalo.

[eball]

I truly believe that if Dick Jauron were given the undiscovered Tom Brady or even Brent Favre, that both QBs would have had very NFL average careers. Everything in Jauron's DNA tells him that interceptions are a mortal sin and to never allow his QB throw a pass until it is absolutely necessary (see third and longs), and when he does feel a little crazy and let's him pass on first or second downs it is of the one to five yard variety. Jauron is a horrible head coach because he doesn't trust in his players to make plays and this is the reason his teams always suck against tough competition. No guts no glory, playing not to lose will get you beat more often then get you the victory. I hate, yes HATE, Dick Jauron's coaching style and can't wait till he's long gone from Buffalo.

Moronic post. Sorry, 1billsfan, but I gotta call you out on this one. Jauron is a delegator on offense and defense, much the way Levy was. He may try to bring in OCs who match his general philosophy, but NOTHING we've seen in Buffalo suggests Jauron is calling the plays (or overriding the OC's playcalling). The Bills simply haven't had the horses on offense to truly attack people, and Fairchild's strategy was curious at best. It's obvious Jauron was frustrated by it as well.

 

Keep posting this drivel, though. There are plenty of misguided souls out there who love to lap it up.

 

I don't believe Jauron is the second coming of Lombardi or (shudder) Belichick*, but he deserves a hell of a lot more respect than he's been shown.

[1billsfan]

Moronic post. Sorry, 1billsfan, but I gotta call you out on this one. Jauron is a delegator on offense and defense, much the way Levy was. He may try to bring in OCs who match his general philosophy, but NOTHING we've seen in Buffalo suggests Jauron is calling the plays (or overriding the OC's playcalling). The Bills simply haven't had the horses on offense to truly attack people, and Fairchild's strategy was curious at best. It's obvious Jauron was frustrated by it as well.

 

Keep posting this drivel, though. There are plenty of misguided souls out there who love to lap it up.

 

I don't believe Jauron is the second coming of Lombardi or (shudder) Belichick*, but he deserves a hell of a lot more respect than he's been shown.

 

 

You're the moron if you think that Jauron doesn't have a HUGE say in the offensive gameplanning. Because if he was letting Steve Fairchild run our team into the ground last year without changing the vanilla course then Jauron's a bigger idiot than I thought he was. I love you guys, you seriously crack me the f up. You have this opinion that all's Jauron needs to become this great coach is a great QB. Once he gets that QB, the skies the limit baby! Give us all a break please, to believe this is to ignore seven seasons worth of head coaching that tells you the exact opposite. If he were given a great QB, that QB would end up having one lack-luster season after another. Jauron doesn't trust in his players. History is on my side, and you're calling me the moron? You are so delusional, you have no clue.

[eball]

You're the moron if you think that Jauron doesn't have a HUGE say in the offensive gameplanning. Because if he was letting Steve Fairchild run our team into the ground last year without changing the vanilla course then Jauron's a bigger idiot than I thought he was. I love you guys, you seriously crack me the f up. You have this opinion that all's Jauron needs to become this great coach is a great QB. Once he gets that QB, the skies the limit baby! Give us all a break please, to believe this is to ignore seven seasons worth of head coaching that tells you the exact opposite. If he were given a great QB, that QB would end up having one lack-luster season after another. Jauron doesn't trust in his players. History is on my side, and you're calling me the moron? You are so delusional, you have no clue.

I'll respond to you one more time, but after that I'll devote my time elsewhere because it's clear you don't "get it." When you have a team that is deficient in talent, you have to try to devise gameplans that will keep the game close so you might have a chance to win if the breaks go your way. It's that simple. The Bills of 2006 and 2007 were talent poor, both because of what Donahoe left behind (2006) and an unbelievable slew of injuries (2007). Despite that, the Bills were able to remain competitive in nearly all of their games and were amazingly still in the playoff conversation in December both years.

 

The reason players love Jauron is precisely because he DOES trust them. He apparently also inspires them -- that's what I've seen on the field since his arrival. What he can't do is make them more talented or skillful than they are.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you mind letting us know your age?

[SouthernMan]

Why all the hate for Jauron? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm genuinely interested. He's given me reason for hope since he's gotten here, as it feels like he's turned this franchise around from the hellhole it was when he got here. It feels as if the ball is rolling in the right direction.

 

 

Why all the hate for Jauron is a good question. Because he's not a charismatic, animated sideline figure like a Jon Gruden, Parcells, or Bill Cowher?

 

The Bengals' Marvin Lewis has been given a free ride for 5 years. He has one more win than Jauron during Jauron's tenure with the Bills, and for some reason, Lewis is treated like a coaching god by the media and fans.

 

In 5 seasons as the Bengals head man, only one has resulted in a record better than .500. He's also had more talent and less injury issues than Jauron has had.

 

Consider Jauron's challenges last season:

Working with a rookie RB, rookie QB, no complimentary second WR, barely adequate TEs to replace the severly injured one, a defensive backfield wiped out by injury, the highest total of injured reserve players on record, and one the toughest schedules of the season. All this, and they were only a couple of last-second field goals away from being a playoff contender.

 

I'm willing to give Jauron the benefit of a doubt. I think it's still too early to pass judgement on him as the Bills coach. How many coaches have had better records in their first 2 years after inheriting a minimally talented team ?

 

Considering all Jauron had to face last year, it's amazing they finished with 7 wins!

[1billsfan]

I'll respond to you one more time, but after that I'll devote my time elsewhere because it's clear you don't "get it." When you have a team that is deficient in talent, you have to try to devise gameplans that will keep the game close so you might have a chance to win if the breaks go your way. It's that simple. The Bills of 2006 and 2007 were talent poor, both because of what Donahoe left behind (2006) and an unbelievable slew of injuries (2007). Despite that, the Bills were able to remain competitive in nearly all of their games and were amazingly still in the playoff conversation in December both years.

 

The reason players love Jauron is precisely because he DOES trust them. He apparently also inspires them -- that's what I've seen on the field since his arrival. What he can't do is make them more talented or skillful than they are.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you mind letting us know your age?

 

I'm 43 and clearly have a much better handle on Jauron's football history than you do. Dick Jauron inspires his players? Wow, you didn't drink the kool-aid, you chugged it. It's now become a BIG myth that Jauron's teams "play" their hearts out for him. Where the hell was this EFFORT the last three games last year? The games that actually made the DIFFERENCE between the Bills making the playoffs and them sitting at home. They played the most uninspiring football I've ever seen by a Bills team, that's what they did. So there goes that inspiration theory. I'm sorry that you're still clinging to this myth of Jauron being a good head coach, I saw the light early on last season and Bear's fans will be more than happy to tell you the rest of the story. I'm just trying to help you understand how wrong you are, but please be my guest and devote your time elsewhere. I could care less.

[eball]

I'm 43 and clearly have a much better handle on Jauron's football history than you do. Dick Jauron inspires his players? Wow, you didn't drink the kool-aid, you chugged it. It's now become a BIG myth that Jauron's teams "play" their hearts out for him. Where the hell was this EFFORT the last three games last year? The games that actually made the DIFFERENCE between the Bills making the playoffs and them sitting at home. They played the most uninspiring football I've ever seen by a Bills team, that's what they did. So there goes that inspiration theory. I'm sorry that you're still clinging to this myth of Jauron being a good head coach, I saw the light early on last season and Bear's fans will be more than happy to tell you the rest of the story. I'm just trying to help you understand how wrong you are, but please be my guest and devote your time elsewhere. I could care less.

Keep ignoring the talent issue, 1billsfan. Later.

[1billsfan]

Keep ignoring the talent issue, 1billsfan. Later.

 

Marshawn Lynch had only 18 catches, but also had a 10.2 average of yards gained per catch. That was as good as TJ Houshmandzadeh's (10.2) and Hines Ward's (10.3) YPC. Want RBs comparisons? He was better than both Brian Westbrook (8.6) and LT (7.9). Yet Marshawn only had a pitiful 18 catches for the whole season. Lynch was a guy that everyone knew, except apparently Dick Jauron, was a true threat in the passing game. The only one that's ignoring talent here is Dick Jauron.

 

I'd be more than happy if Jauron proves his doubters like me wrong and I'll just leave it at that.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I have zero faith in Jauron. My hope is that the team can win in spite of him, and he gets fired either during, or after the season.

Wow, the positive vibe bit it fast.

[K-9]

I could care less.

 

That means you actually COULD care less.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

Cute attempt....but Belicheat was a helluva coach going 11-5 with a crap Clevekand organization and was the reason Parcells won anything.

However...YES--Jauron has had garbage to work with at QB.I have my doubts --seeing how anal rentative the guy is in his coaching style---but I woulda said the same thing about Coughlin not too long ago.We'll see.

BTW, how long did he stick with any of these guys before reaching for the next hot pocket?

 

It's comical really. It's like taking a recipe for a cake that says "bake for 25 minutes at 350" and turning around after its been in the oven for 5 minutes and saying, "I can't wait that long. This cake isn't any good. Let's put another in the oven."

 

WTF? No, really. WTF are some expecting?

 

Not every QB is going to be good. Let's nip the gratuitous knee-jerk Losman bashing in the bud and just stipulate that "sure, he'll never be any good." That does nothing to explain the track record of Jauron and QBs. He's only ever stuck with Miller and Losman as "the guy" for any length of time. Setting aside the personal bitterness, does anybody really think it builds a team to yo-yo the starter and leadership figure in and out of the line-up? This is a !@#$ing team sport. This is also a sport where confidence is essential. Eroding confidence in the leadership, including the QB and coaching staff, should not be treated cavalierly. If it were that simple, you'd see coaches across the NFL declaring QBs busts after a couple of series and going to the next pitcher in the rotation without a second thought.

[The Mayor of Buffalo]

Nice post. I'm not worried at all about Hardy's past. He seems, so far anyway, to be the type of guy that has made himself a better person by making a few mistakes...as cliche as that might sound.

 

I think your biggest point is the McCargo comment. He was a first rounder, and actually started to look like one in the second half of last year. I personally thought he should have been starting, and seeing a lot more time on the field than he was getting. Triplett just didn't work out. McCargo alongside Stroud sounds pretty intimidating if I were an opposing offensive coordinator. If McCargo continues to progress, they could be VERY dangerous together...and I don't think we could have asked for a better mentor for McCargo than we have found in Stroud. Will be really nice that Schobel won't be double teamed constantly this season, if the big guys in the middle stay healthy.

 

I'm not too worried about the TE position as some are. I think we have pretty decent blockers there, and I am much more concerned with their blocking abilities now that we have a big #2 WR. Speaking of that big #2...the addition of Hardy should obviously free up Evans a bit...but damn, what about Parrish?? I think he should now be the consensus #3. Get the ball in his hands...end of story. We've all seen what he can do with his feet when he has the ball...I am REALLY liking the thought of Evans/Hardy/Parrish being on the field together in passing situations. On paper, you couldn't ask for a better or more diverse range of talent.

 

Back to Defense...as lousy as the Bills were opening the season last year, our rookies were certainly the bright spots. I don't even need to get into Lynch right now, but Poz was there for every single play until he got hurt. If I recall correctly, wasn't he leading the NFL in tackles after 3 weeks???

 

Our past 3 drafts have been phenomenal. Whitner...then the homerun with Lynch, and hopefully Poz last year...and now two years in a row we got a first round value in a second round pick...in my opinion anyway. Hell, the Bills considered Poz in the first last year...and most "experts" thought the Bills would go after one of the top WRs in the draft in the first last weekend...and we got one in the second. I love it.

 

 

 

 

1) The Bills OL stays healthy, especially Jason Peters, who is presently our best player. It probably isn't close.

 

2) Our 1st round corner is a star.

 

3) Hardy is not a criminal.

 

4) Poz comes back and plays to form. I think that R.Rich was right about this kid.

 

5) Butler keps progressing. This is freaking huge.

 

6) Duke Preston is cut. I don't care if he is replaced by a udfa. He is a bad football player.

 

7) Stroud likes it here, stays healthy, and plays well. He is a badass.

 

8) McCargo becomes a good, steady player.

 

9) Parrish doesn't get broken in half.

 

10) Someone can be a good TE. This is a HUGE reach.

 

Last but far from least, Trent Edwards needs to be even almost as good as I think that he will be. It is a ton to ask or expect from a kid with 9 starts, but I really do see great things in this kid. How perfect would it be for us if he shows enough to unite the crowd at OBD, let alone TSW?

I hated this draft, but I will never give up.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[C.Biscuit97]

BTW, how long did he stick with any of these guys before reaching for the next hot pocket?

 

It's comical really. It's like taking a recipe for a cake that says "bake for 25 minutes at 350" and turning around after its been in the oven for 5 minutes and saying, "I can't wait that long. This cake isn't any good. Let's put another in the oven."

 

WTF? No, really. WTF are some expecting?

 

Not every QB is going to be good. Let's nip the gratuitous knee-jerk Losman bashing in the bud and just stipulate that "sure, he'll never be any good." That does nothing to explain the track record of Jauron and QBs. He's only ever stuck with Miller and Losman as "the guy" for any length of time. Setting aside the personal bitterness, does anybody really think it builds a team to yo-yo the starter and leadership figure in and out of the line-up? This is a !@#$ing team sport. This is also a sport where confidence is essential. Eroding confidence in the leadership, including the QB and coaching staff, should not be treated cavalierly. If it were that simple, you'd see coaches across the NFL declaring QBs busts after a couple of series and going to the next pitcher in the rotation without a second thought.

 

Please tell what other of Jauron's QBs you would have started for any period of time??? Or how bout the fact that none of the QBs that were Jauron's QBs ever really played for any other teams?

 

I'm not trying to say he is the best coach in the league. But seriously, please tell me who would have done a better job with the Bills' roster last season in a season that began with a teammate getting paralyzed and losing on a last second fg?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Did Dick have player personnel power in Chi town?

Yes. Dick Jauron had total control of player personnel in Chicago. It was a major contention between Angelo and Jauron, because it meant that Angelo was nothing but a stuffed shirt.

[The Mayor of Buffalo]

Give him a chance...the Losman situation was already well on its way to being a farce before he even got here. All I know is that the players love him, and love playing for him. He brings out the best in the players...look at Greer. Look at Wilson. We thought it would be a disaster resorting to starting these guys, then they came in and played their asses off.

 

I'm not judging Jauron until AFTER this season. All the pieces are finally starting to come together...last year we had a VERY likeable team, and this year we'll have a very likeable team that wins (I hope!)

 

Wow, the positive vibe bit it fast.

[stuckincincy]

quote name='DML2005' date='May 1 2008, 08:56 AM' post='1026888']

 

The Bengals' Marvin Lewis has been given a free ride for 5 years. He has one more win than Jauron during Jauron's tenure with the Bills, and for some reason, Lewis is treated like a coaching god by the media and fans.

 

In 5 seasons as the Bengals head man, only one has resulted in a record better than .500. He's also had more talent and less injury issues than Jauron has had.

 

I'm no fan of Lewis. He has poor game day sense, can't tell time, and is smarmy and duplicitous to the press and fans.

 

But the injuries have been heavy, moreso than BUF:

 

- '03 3rd rounder WR Kelley Washington - missed the better part of 2 seasons with hamstring injuries. Since acquired by NE*

 

- '03 4th rounder CB Dennis Weathersby - car crash, never played.

 

'- 04 1st rounder RB Chris Perry - about one season's worth of games over 4 years.

- '05 1st rounder DE David Pollack breaks his neck in game #2 of 2006. Also in that game, C Rich Braham tears up knee; never plays again.

 

- '07 2nd rounder RB Kenny Irons tears up knee in the 2nd game of pre-season. Out for the year, doubtful for 2008.

 

In 2006, CIN lost these games from these starters:

 

DE David Pollack - 14 games.

C Rich Braham - 14 games

LT Levi Jones - 10 games.

LB Brian Simmons - 5 games.

CB Delthea O'Neal - 4 games.

SS Dexter Jackson - 4 games.

LB Rashad Jeanty - 4 games.

RG Bobbie Williams - 3 games.

WR T.J. Houshmanzadeh - 2 games.

 

In 2007, starters missing games:

 

MLB Ahmad Brooks - 14 games

RT Willie Anderson - 9 games.

LB Rashad Jeanty - 6 games.

RB Rudi Johnson - 5 games.

C Eric Ghiaciuc - 4 games.

S Madieu Williams - 3 games.

S Dexter Jackson - 2 games.

LT Levi Jones - 1 game plus 3 starts - spot duty.

 

That's a sh*tload of games lost, by starters, over a two-year stretch...

 

The injuries started in the pre-season in '07. They played 3 pre-season games with an amazing 20 players short.

 

Their LB corps was wiped out for 2 seasons - recall that in the CIN - BUF game this past season, the starting OLBs for CIN were DE Robt. Geathers, and rookie SS Chidi Ndukwe. Landon Johnson played MLB, and the only LB back-ups on the roster were street FA Dhani Jones and NE* cast-off Anthony Schlegal.

 

Much as I dislike Lewis, he has never publicly blamed injuries...

[K-9]

BTW, how long did he stick with any of these guys before reaching for the next hot pocket?

 

It's comical really. It's like taking a recipe for a cake that says "bake for 25 minutes at 350" and turning around after its been in the oven for 5 minutes and saying, "I can't wait that long. This cake isn't any good. Let's put another in the oven."

 

WTF? No, really. WTF are some expecting?

 

Not every QB is going to be good. Let's nip the gratuitous knee-jerk Losman bashing in the bud and just stipulate that "sure, he'll never be any good." That does nothing to explain the track record of Jauron and QBs. He's only ever stuck with Miller and Losman as "the guy" for any length of time. Setting aside the personal bitterness, does anybody really think it builds a team to yo-yo the starter and leadership figure in and out of the line-up? This is a !@#$ing team sport. This is also a sport where confidence is essential. Eroding confidence in the leadership, including the QB and coaching staff, should not be treated cavalierly. If it were that simple, you'd see coaches across the NFL declaring QBs busts after a couple of series and going to the next pitcher in the rotation without a second thought.

 

Good points about leadership. But just to play devil's advocate, what ever happened to the hot-pocket QBs AFTER Jauron yanked them out of the line-up? Did any go on to have the All Pro careers they would have otherwise had if Jauron hadn't been so impatient with them?

 

He had success with Jim Miller for crissakes. JIM MILLER! It could be argued that when the great Jim Miller went down so to did the fortunes of Jauron's Bear team.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

But seriously, please tell me who would have done a better job with the Bills' roster last season in a season that began with a teammate getting paralyzed and losing on a last second fg?

The last player I remember getting paralyzed was a LB for the Lions. Forgot his name. I don't remember the Lions folding up the organization and forfeiting the rest of the season, though. I call red herring. Also, what's with the "and losing on a last second FG"? Can we add "born on a Friday under a full moon" to make sure we're arguing from a negative premise?

 

It's easy to say a QB is a bust. It's easy to say that he had no talent to begin with because he didn't become the absolute best in his profession. That characterization fits the majority of people on the planet. It is easy because there is no proof to the contrary.

 

In reality, it takes more than a fleeting chance to become successful.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Good points about leadership. But just to play devil's advocate, what ever happened to the hot-pocket QBs AFTER Jauron yanked them out of the line-up? Did any go on to have the All Pro careers they would have otherwise had if Jauron hadn't been so impatient with them?

 

He had success with Jim Miller for crissakes. JIM MILLER! It could be argued that when the great Jim Miller went down so to did the fortunes of Jauron's Bear team.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

All I am really saying, K-9, is that I do not want to see Trent Edwards get pulled out of the line-up next year. Even if he has a paper cut. Even if he has a 4 game stretch where he sucks massive. If he is the starter, then by God, the Dickster needs to hitch his wagon to Trent and go for the damn ride.

[C.Biscuit97]

All I am really saying, K-9, is that I do not want to see Trent Edwards get pulled out of the line-up next year. Even if he has a paper cut. Even if he has a 4 game stretch where he sucks massive. If he is the starter, then by God, the Dickster needs to hitch his wagon to Trent and go for the damn ride.

 

 

This I completely agree with. And I think he gave JP the same treatment in 2006, when JP was awful early on. But last year, Jauron didn't bench Losman. Losman got himself benched.