Bush Says "Stop Runnin The Ad."

[gmac17]

Calling for an end to all 527 ads after the smear has already had two weeks to take hold is not unlike bashing someone in the head repeatedly with a two-by-four and then saying "I call truce!"

 

Ask Kerry if he wants the 527's to end.

 

the $158k warchest the swiftvets have is peanuts compared to the multiple 527's the dems have carrying their water with $10million +

[BRH]

Ask Kerry if he wants the 527's to end.

 

the $158k warchest the swiftvets have is peanuts compared to the multiple 527's the dems have carrying their water with $10million +

5162[/snapback]

The Republicans have plenty of 501©(3)'s and 501©(4)'s skirting the anti-lobbying provisions of the tax code by funneling funds to this sort of advertising. It's a better way to do it, actually, because that way the organizations don't have to reveal the identities of the donors. Solves that pesky problem of the media finding out exactly who is controlling and funding the ads... as in the case of the SBVL. So they don't really give a stevestojan what happens to the 527s.

[IUBillsFan]

 

In fact, if anyone "dodged" the draft, it was Bush.

 

 

 

That has to be one of the funniest things I've read here.

[OnTheRocks]

It is indeed the case.  Do you really believe he has a good government, clean campaign motive?  The same president who all but authorized the slanderous smear campaign against Max Cleland? 

 

The reality is the Bush people were caught flatfooted.  They believed they would continue to hold a very significant fundraising advantage between Bush-Democratic nominee (Kerry) as well as RNC-DNC.  Moreover, many Bush strategists did not set up 527s because they thought the (Republican controlled) FEC would shut them down, but again, to the surprise of nearly everyone (including Bush guys) the 527 were permitted to exist at least for this cycle. 

 

Both instances were very surprising to both Democrats and Republicans.  Long ago Democrats essentially divided their effort -- and took a lot of time and care to create a fairly airtight case that a thick firewall separated Democratic 527s from the Party and candidates.  It is not an easy thing to do -- the Democrats  essentially run two campaigns at the same time. 

 

The Republicans did not think they would need 527s for the reasons outlined above but have played catch up for the last two-three months.  But it takes time and a lot of legal maneuvering, particularly since nearly every Republican operative was essentially "tainted" and were ineligible for 527 work. 

 

The Republicans have essentially concluded that their 527s cannot compete and those set up are flawed and very vulnerable to FEC audits and investigations (believe me, no one wants to take on the FEC -- especially since treasurers and most "staff" can be held personally libel for irregularities).  This is certainly the case with the SBVT that advised by Bush operatives (a big No-No). 

 

So why not just have Bush condemn all 527s when it's not clear he would benefit from their banishment?

5153[/snapback]

 

 

let me guess....you don't believe man ever landed on the moon either right?

You have a lot of opinion here....which is great, and i won't criticize for that,....but you have zero in the facts dept.

[BRH]

That has to be one of the funniest things I've read here.

5177[/snapback]

Refute it if you can.

 

Person A gets a student deferment, enrolls in ROTC, subjects self to draft, gets a high number, withdraws place in ROTC.

 

Person B gets well-connected father to shoot him to top of National Guard list, thereby becoming ineligible for draft. Person B later does not show up for a year's worth of duty and then gets discharged a year early to attend business school.

 

Who dodged the draft?

[IDBillzFan]

Refute it if you can.

 

Person A gets a student deferment, enrolls in ROTC, subjects self to draft, gets a high number, withdraws place in ROTC.

 

Person B gets well-connected father to shoot him to top of National Guard list, thereby becoming ineligible for draft.  Person B later does not show up for a year's worth of duty and then gets discharged a year early to attend business school.

 

Who dodged the draft?

5200[/snapback]

 

Person A jumped off the merry-go-round.

 

Person B jumped off the carousel.

 

Who jumped off the circus ride?

 

You guys...I swear...will say virtually anything, and then attempt to justify it with virtually anything.

[Alaska Darin]

Person A jumped off the merry-go-round.

 

Person B jumped off the carousel.

 

Who jumped off the circus ride?

 

You guys...I swear...will say virtually anything, and then attempt to justify it with virtually anything.

5203[/snapback]

Apparently the National Guard is nothing but a bunch of draft dodgers. Let's abolish them!

[IDBillzFan]

Apparently the National Guard is nothing but a bunch of draft dodgers.  Let's abolish them!

5207[/snapback]

And here's the real gist of the entire thread. I start out posting that Bush says to stop the anti-Kerry ad. A handful of posts later, and we're right back to "Bush dodged the draft with Daddy's money!"

 

Like a broken fuggin' record.

 

Oh, look, the sky is so clear today.

 

Yes, it is...and by the way, Bush sucks, blah, blah, blah....

[Alaska Darin]

And here's the real gist of the entire thread. I start out posting that Bush says to stop the anti-Kerry ad. A handful of posts later, and we're right back to "Bush dodged the draft with Daddy's money!"

 

Like a broken fuggin' record.

 

Oh, look, the sky is so clear today.

 

Yes, it is...and by the way, Bush sucks, blah, blah, blah....

5215[/snapback]

Mr. Kerry, your record in the Senate on proposing legislation to fix veteran's problems is virtually without merit. How do you answer this charge?

 

Senator Kerry: "Well, I served in Vietnam. I have 3 purple hearts. There is shrapnel in my leg. That is why I should be President."

 

The same can be said about health care. What are you proposing now that you haven't for the last 19 years?

 

Senator Kerry: "Well, I served in Vietnam. I have 3 purple hearts. There is shrapnel in my leg. That is why I should be President."

[erynthered]

I'm suprised there has'nt been shots at Bob Dole today. How come I wonder?

[IDBillzFan]

Hey, Eryn...did you get a chance to see my collection of Kerry stuff?

 

Go here, and walk through the slideshow. Funny stuff.

[erynthered]

Hey, Eryn...did you get a chance to see my collection of Kerry stuff?

 

Go here, and walk through the slideshow. Funny stuff.

5236[/snapback]

 

 

 

Damn, Those cant be true.

 

 

Funny stevestojan, I see a new avatar in my future.

 

 

When are you going to expand to the east coast with your company, you know how gulible us Floridans can be?

 

I took gross sales from 250K last year to about 1 Million this year. (Senseless plug )

[RCow]

let me guess....you don't believe man ever landed on the moon either right?

You have a lot of opinion here....which is great, and i won't criticize for that,....but you have zero in the facts dept.

5178[/snapback]

 

I know exactly what I'm talking about. Just because you don't understand the basics of 527s and itshistory doesn't mean it isn't 100% true. This is not some kind of conspiracy theory, it's fact.

 

Look it up. It's not that hard if you were paying attention. The day after the 2002 November election, Democratic leaning organizations across the country (but primarly in DC) were launched 527s -- dozens of them. Look it up.

 

Hundreds of Democratic operatives (many former Clinton folks) essentially established a professional firewall between themselves and the Democratic Party officials (including elected officials). The reason was simple: the Democratic Party rightly thought they'd get pounded in a RNC vs. DNC battle with some projecting a nearly 6 to 1 deficit. Same goes for the Presidential nominee. To counter it they set up the 527 network -- the only McCain Feingold provision that would allow them to compete. It's "soft money" but there are very strict and cumbersome rules.

 

However, the Democrats were playing a game of chicken -- they knew there was the possibility the FEC would shut them down and they'd be up shitscreek. Why? Because the Republicans control the FEC. That's not a conspiracy, that's simple politics. After massive lobbying by the GOP and most Republican leaning organizations (ironically not the NRA and pro-life groups -- you can look it up), campaign finance experts expected the FEC to rule against the 527s in May(?). This lobbying by the GOP became especially frantic when it became apparent their RNC/DNC and Bush/Kerry fundraising edge had all but disappeared (you can look it). Another problem was that the GOP had put too many eggs in one basket and procrastinated on the 527s because they feared the FEC would say "well your doing it, too." (you can look it up).

 

Well, the GOP rolled the dice and lost. The FEC, on a defection by a GOP board member, ruled in favor of the 527s. The GOP went ballistic and tried in vain to get the Republican to change his mind -- which he kind of did but the board said they would not make another ruling until after the election.

 

Result: Democrats have a significant logistical and financial edge in the 527s. It's a fact, you can look it up.

 

So why wait? Well, the GOP thought they could catch up. They couldn't and thus Bush all of a sudden turns into Mr. Clean Campaign.

 

You can look it up.

[IDBillzFan]

Damn, Those cant be true. 

Funny stevestojan, I see a new avatar in my future.

When are you going to expand to the east coast with your company, you know how gulible us Floridans can be?

 

I took gross sales from 250K last year to about 1 Million this year. (Senseless plug )

5247[/snapback]

I especially liked the one with Saddam's face in the clouds overhead, with Kerry and Edwards Attorneys At Law, and the text saying..."Personal Injury? Crimes against humanity? Recently Deposed? Help is on the way!!!"

 

My little company will take another couple of years before I'm ready to hire someone on the east. But when I'm ready...I'll call you. In the meantime, don't fret, cuz.....

[erynthered]

I especially liked the one with Saddam's face in the clouds overhead, with Kerry and Edwards Attorneys At Law, and the text saying..."Personal Injury? Crimes against humanity? Recently Deposed? Help is on the way!!!"

 

My little company will take another couple of years before I'm ready to hire someone on the east. But when I'm ready...I'll call you. In the meantime, don't fret, cuz.....

5258[/snapback]

 

 

No Fret LA, Thanks brother.

 

I had my company for over 12 years, It was nice. With out getting into the semantics of it. With the buy up's of some small business over a period of time, Profit margins decreasing, I made a move back to Corperate America. Had to. Still have that urge though. I'm such the Capitalistic PIG!!

[IDBillzFan]

No Fret LA, Thanks brother.

 

I had my company for over 12 years, It was nice. With out getting into the semantics of it. With the buy up's of some small business over a period of time, Profit margins decreasing, I made a move back to Corperate America. Had to. Still have that urge though. I'm such the Capitalistic PIG!!

5266[/snapback]

I will do whatever is in my power...spend whatever is in my name...to never return to Corporate America. I'm going to do something only a small percentage of entrepreneurs has done. I'm going to run a company where people want to work. There may only ever be two other people here, but they are going to want to work here. Not because of the money, but because of how they are treated.

 

At least for me, the only thing I ever hated about Corporate America, was how companies treated me. I will not do that again. My employees are treated as humans. With lives outside the office. Lives that need some respect.

 

When I was at my last job, I ran a $35M territory and had 17 people working for me. I hired all 17 of them. In eight years of managing the staff, only one person ever left. I'm very proud of that low turnover rate. I want that in my new company. It won't be easy, but it's my plan.

 

Ain't America cool?

[erynthered]

I will do whatever is in my power...spend whatever is in my name...to never return to Corporate America. I'm going to do something only a small percentage of entrepreneurs has done. I'm going to run a company where people want to work. There may only ever be two other people here, but they are going to want to work here. Not because of the money, but because of how they are treated.

 

At least for me, the only thing I ever hated about Corporate America, was how companies treated me. I will not do that again. My employees are treated as humans. With lives outside the office. Lives that need some respect.

 

When I was at my last job, I ran a $35M territory and had 17 people working for me. I hired all 17 of them. In eight years of managing the staff, only one person ever left. I'm very proud of that low turnover rate. I want that in my new company. It won't be easy, but it's my plan.

 

Ain't America cool?

5285[/snapback]

 

Kudos, to you. In my reading of your posts over the last year, you are a rarity.

Godspeed to you and your company. And God bless you, and your wife with child, your son.

 

The corperate company I work for did over 428 million in sales in the second Q.

You get lost in the numbers, I envy you. Good luck LA.

 

If I had to work for Micky-D's to support my family, I would. I would'nt sit on my ass collecting the dole. We're a breed apart. The Yes I can attitude goes far.

 

You ready for some football?

[ExiledInIllinois]

Kudos, to you. In my reading of your posts over the last year, you are a rarity.

Godspeed to you and your company. And God bless you, and your wife with child, your son.

 

The corperate company I work for did over 428 million in sales in the second Q.

You get lost in the numbers, I envy you. Good luck LA.

 

If I had to work for Micky-D's to support my family, I would. I would'nt sit on my ass collecting the dole. We're a breed apart. The Yes I can attitude goes far.

 

You ready for some football?    

 

5299[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

You guys (okay maybe not you guys specifically) say I live in a fantasy world. I couldn't agree more with what you have said (and LA also).

 

Both my wife and I are lucky to be working outside the corporate world. We just had the discussion last night on how the "grind" doesn't seem to be effecting us.

 

She heads a library with a muti-million dollar budget and 40 or so employee... She would totally agree with what LA said.

 

My schedule enables me to be home with the kids around 3/4 of my work year.

 

At both our jobs, people are put first. It is a blessing.

 

I guess we are lucky. Fantasy world maybe?. Our sacrifice is that we had to leave Buffalo... Yet the pay and time off enables us to be home for extended trips to see the family every month or two.

 

I will be flyin' in for the JAX opener (sans the wife and kidlets! )... It is gonna be hard because we have been such an independent unit out here. Still I am looking forward to it.

 

Kudo's both of you!

 

And thanks for trying to understand my position (as fragmented as it may be ).

[Arondale]

Well, the GOP rolled the dice and lost.  The FEC, on a defection by a GOP board member, ruled in favor of the 527s.  The GOP went ballistic and tried in vain to get the Republican to change his mind -- which he kind of did but the board said they would not make another ruling until after the election.

 

Result: Democrats have a significant logistical and financial edge in the 527s.  It's a fact, you can look it up.

 

So why wait?  Well, the GOP thought they could catch up.  They couldn't and thus Bush all of a sudden turns into Mr. Clean Campaign.

 

You can look it up.

5255[/snapback]

 

Your facts and knowledge of this area go well beyond my expertise, but your conclusion has one glaring error.

 

Bush "all of a sudden" denounced the 527 advertising only after criticism of the SBVT ads were criticized by Kerry. If your theory is true, why didn't Bush do that months ago when Moveon.org started running all their ads? Your answer is they thought they could catch up. No offense, but it is the end of August, I don't think they would wait this long. Even more, I doubt they would wait to do this in response to an ad that helped them. Why not say it in response to a 527 ad against him? Bush did the politically correct thing by calling for an end to the SBVT ads, it had nothing to do with losing a financial edge.

 

Kerry and his cronies are bashing Bush for not voicing disaproval of these ads, yet I never heard Kerry say anything against the earlier 527 ads where Bush was compared to Hitler (correct me if I'm wrong). If anything, Kerry is the one who is viewing these ads with an eye towards finances. Kerry never said anything against Michael Moore's film, even though the amount of lies in that movie far outnumber any lie the SBVT might be telling. In fact I find it funny that Kerry and Democrats are actually using bits from the movie to criticize Bush (i.e. the 7 second fiasco and Bush on vacation). Kerry's not saying anything because he knows they are helping him out.

[RCow]

Your facts and knowledge of this area go well beyond my expertise, but your conclusion has one glaring error.

 

Bush "all of a sudden" denounced the 527 advertising only after criticism of the SBVT ads were criticized by Kerry.  If your theory is true, why didn't Bush do that months ago when Moveon.org started running all their ads?  Your answer is they thought they could catch up.  No offense, but it is the end of August, I don't think they would wait this long.  Even more, I doubt they would wait to do this in response to an ad that helped them.  Why not say it in response to a 527 ad against him?  Bush did the politically correct thing by calling for an end to the SBVT ads, it had nothing to do with losing a financial edge. 

 

Kerry and his cronies are bashing Bush for not voicing disaproval of these ads, yet I never heard Kerry say anything against the earlier 527 ads where Bush was compared to Hitler (correct me if I'm wrong).  If anything, Kerry is the one who is viewing these ads with an eye towards finances.  Kerry never said anything against Michael Moore's film, even though the amount of lies in that movie far outnumber any lie the SBVT might be telling.  In fact I find it funny that Kerry and Democrats are actually using bits from the movie to criticize Bush (i.e. the 7 second fiasco and Bush on vacation).  Kerry's not saying anything because he knows they are helping him out.

5484[/snapback]

 

Sorry, but hardly a "glaring error."

 

The Bush/GOP wanted the FEC to rule against 527s back in the Spring because they did not have them set up and as I mentioned before they bet the ranch that their Republican FEC board members would ban 527s. They were wrong. So instead of launching into a "principled" attack on 527s they said "oh, crap" and tried to catch up. When it became apparent that they could not they took the political opportunity to disguise their disadvantage by calling on an end to 527s and trying to appear (lamely) that they disapproved of the SBVT ads specifically.

Bush and Company would gladly end of the SBVT and other efforts in exchange for shutting down all the Kerry supporting ads. It's not even a tough decision and absolutely nothing to do with the swift boat ad (which lost it's luster) or "good clean campaigns" and everything to do with trying to get the 527 disadvantage neutralized.