To Those Who Are Happy About The McKelvin Pick

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I feel completely justified in expecting McKelvin to start by opening day in year 2, and expecting him to be a top-10 NFL corner by year 4.

 

My view is that this pick came at a position where the Bills already had 2 solid starters and a good nickel back. In order for the pick to be justified, McKelvin has to be significantly better than Greer. The above expectations are the only way for that to be the case, in my opinion, so unfortunately the expectations being put on the kid are pretty steep ones.

 

If he's just another Terrence McGee (in other words a solid starter), the pick doesn't make sense to me. He needs to be something special, or the pick was botched.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

My point is that possessing an elite corner is almost essential to compete today.

Someone forgot to get Mr. Polian that memo, I suppose.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Why is everyone crediting/blaming Jauron for the pick?

 

Last years pick was credited to Levy, this years it's Dick's turn?

 

I think it was a collective decision between a few people like, Modrak, Jauron, input from the co-ordinators, and of course Ralph Wilson.

 

My main point of contention with this is that people keep saying "Dick was a defensive back, so you know how he loves DB's".

I think DJ is a mediocre coach, but I don't think he is trying to force Db's into our draft, I just think DB had the best value at 11 and was a pretty big need for the Bills.

[Dibs]

Someone forgot to get Mr. Polian that memo, I suppose.

In all fairness, he did say almost.......though I think it an overstatement anyway. Many top teams do not have elite CBs.....but most have good ones with depth. Personally I think you have over-valued our incumbent CBs. 2 solid starters & a good nickel? I tend to think we have serviceable/decent starters & serviceable/decent nickel. Which of our CBs would generally be rated in the top 20?.....top 30?

Edited April 29, 2008 by Dibs

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

In all fairness, he did say almost.......though I think it an overstatement anyway. Many top teams do not have elite CBs.....but most have good ones with depth. Personally I think you have over-valued our incumbent CBs. 2 solid starters & a good nickel? I tend to think we have serviceable/decent starters & serviceable/decent nickel. Which of our CBs would generally be rated in the top 20?.....top 30?

I'd say McGee would be somewhere around 15th-20th, and Greer would be somewhere around 45th-50th, making him a middle-of-the-pack #2.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Someone forgot to get Mr. Polian that memo, I suppose.

 

Fair point. It's may also be fair to say that Indy's defense over the past handful of years has been something of a liability for them, barring the spectacular run they had in the playoffs '06 when they finally won the SB. Most of that liability came from the back seven (well, 6 when Sanders was healthy.) Peyton and the offense helped mask that just a little bit.

[Pete]

Methinks this thread betrays some of our posters' ages a bit. The NFL of today, 2008, is a pass-oriented league, more than ever before. More teams are using the slot receiver and spread sets than ever. We just happen to be in a division with the most prolific passing offense ever; a team we have to man-up to twice a season. Interior D-linemen are often as big as the offensive linemen they face now. Tailbacks break down, many teams now use the "tandem" strategy to try to get some sort of run production week after week.

My point is that possessing an elite corner is almost essential to compete today. Jauron knows this. The rest of the front office knows this. McKelvin was the surest bet this draft of securing a player that can develop into an elite at his position. I don't think any of you can argue with that.

Spout the "championships are built from the lines out" line all you want. Its true to a certain extent, and I think the Bills have more than adequately addressed those areas in the last two years by molding Peters into a pro-bowl LT, adding Walker and Dockery, locking up our DEs (who can play, they have showed it in the past), and adding Stroud and Spence.

 

And please stop complaining about McK's height. He's 5'10 1/2". With the kid's athleticism that is plenty tall to cover all but the most monstrous WR's. The front office isn't enamored with midgets. They have added size at the lines where they know it counts the most, and heeded everyone's call for a bigger WR.

bravo

[C.Biscuit97]

My opinion of the pick is well known but believe it or not, I am willing to listen to some degree of reason. I do wonder just how good this kid has to play to satisfy those of you who wanted yet another first round defensive back, and think that Jauron is something less than a loser/jackass for drafting one.

 

At the #11 slot, do we have right to reasonably expect this kid to be a solid player? Should he be more of an impact player than Whitner? Should we expect him to develop into the equal of Clements? Should we expect the next Mel Blount?

 

I have never seen this small college kid play football. I have zero idea how good he is. Do you guys think that he will be as good as Winfield? Burress? Deoin Sanders? I pay no attention to defensive backs in terms of players that I think the Bills need to win. The reason for this is that I have watched 1st round dbs come and go, as the Bills continue to lose.

 

Is there something special about McKelvin that should/would make me think that this time will be different?

 

Brady 9 tds to 0 ints. We have a corner know who athletic is on a similiar level with Moss. Add that to the fact he is an outstanding returner, he can big a huge part of winning ballgames.

 

I know you're a huge draft a lineman guy, but the league has change. There's some stats that the Colts (Mr. Polian) has drafted 12 out of their last 14 linemen in rounds 4-7. You need to stop the pass, and the Bills are gearing up to do that.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Fair point. It's may also be fair to say that Indy's defense over the past handful of years has been something of a liability for them, barring the spectacular run they had in the playoffs '06 when they finally won the SB. Most of that liability came from the back seven (well, 6 when Sanders was healthy.) Peyton and the offense helped mask that just a little bit.

The Colts, Giants, Jaguars, Browns, Steelers, Seahawks, Titans and Buccaneers all had winning records last year. Seven of those 8 were 10-6 or better.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

In all fairness, he did say almost.......though I think it an overstatement anyway. Many top teams do not have elite CBs.....but most have good ones with depth. Personally I think you have over-valued our incumbent CBs. 2 solid starters & a good nickel? I tend to think we have serviceable/decent starters & serviceable/decent nickel. Which of our CBs would generally be rated in the top 20?.....top 30?

 

I agree McGee and Greer get their globes washed entirely too much around here. They are serviceable doing the "bend-don't-break" thing, which I have been tired of for quite a while now. Hopefully McK's signing signals at least a slight change in defensive philosophy, given his athleticism and chance-taking tendencies. With the steady upgrades at D-line and linebacker, getting away from the Tampa 2/Cover 2/Cover 3 schemes could help avoid the 12-15 play drives we seemed to give up at least once a week last year.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

The Colts, Giants, Jaguars, Browns, Steelers, Seahawks, Titans and Buccaneers all had winning records last year. Seven of those 8 were 10-6 or better.

 

Again good counterpoint...I did say almost essential but that may be an overstatement as Dibs said...I personally would remove Seattle from that list; I consider Trufant an elite corner now - I've been a fan of his for a while

[Dibs]

I'd say McGee would be somewhere around 15th-20th, and Greer would be somewhere around 45th-50th, making him a middle-of-the-pack #2.

So.....lower middle of pack for our #1....and....middle of pack for our #2.

There was generally a consensus that CB was the #2 priority(maybe #3 behind #2WR & C).

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

So.....lower middle of pack for our #1....and....middle of pack for our #2.

There was generally a consensus that CB was the #2 priority(maybe #3 behind #2WR & C).

WR, DE, TE, FS, C?

[Pyrite Gal]

I think McKelvin lives or dies depending upon how much pressure we get from our pass rush. If Stroud is back to healthy I think it will be pretty good. I think the best thing we did this offseason and in the draft was to solidify our DL rotation with the acquisition of Stroud and Johnson to team up with McCargo (who has been developing nicely) and Williams (who amazingly proved to be adequate as a starter which bodes well for him in a rotation).

 

With the DE position anchored by high motor guys Schobel and Kelsay and backed up by the reliable Denny and new guy Ellis (the main fear expressed about him in the scouting reports was whether he could play a full 60 and now that is not even an issue) this DL should do a lot for McKelvin.

 

The addition of Mitchell at OLB should help as well as he is simply a proven success with NYG and it is to be hoped he can establish leadership here in getting the LBs to be opportunistic on the rush and help allow the DTs to penetrate by picking up the slack against the run.

 

This I think can be the key to successful performance by McKelvin. If the rush is not there and someone like a Brady has all day even a shutdown corner is gonna get racked by vets like Welker and Moss.

 

As far as my expectations for his personal performance. My guess is that coming from the college game to a Cover 2 which demands good NFL level reads in order to play it well he actually may have a bit of a slow start. Particularly as he came from a small college where he could dominate simply because he was physically better than his opponents, my guess is that showing a vet mental part of the game may well take him some time.

 

He will likely start at nickel and be used on downs and situations which do not so much require doing vet reads but being a good physical player. If he has a lot of problems as a position player I would expect him to be given a prominent role as a punt returner as the media will easily be ready to stir up a controversy by labeling him a bust even if such labels are not justified for 3 years.

 

I think he should be a good one eventually, but his first year will have its challenges (unless the pass rush is so good it takes the pressure off all the DBs.

[Dibs]

WR, DE, TE, FS, C?

TE was also considered generally a priority though reduced in importance by filling WR.

 

Obviously if one considered DE & FS a higher priority than CB then the McKelvin pick was going to be less appealing but most viewed CB to be of higher importance than DE & FS by quite a ways.

Production this season should clear up which positions were legitimate needs & which were simply apparent needs.

[Gordio]

That's how I see it. We let one player walk. He didn't want to be here anyway. And in return got 3 guys that solidified our line. I don't care how you slice it that's a good trade.

 

I do agree with Bill though. The line is by no means set. We need to upgrade at least one position and get some depth. But, the Oline is far from the most pathetic unit on the team. And that's basically the result of letting Clements walk. Hopefully, the line is held together this year, continiues to improve, and we can start getting some depth guys in next year.

 

 

The lines right now, with the additions we have made, this is the best combination of defense & offensive lines we have had since the last time we made the playoffs. & I would take our current offensive line over the the oline the year we lost to tenn in the playoffs.

 

Bill I know your upset, but Mckelvin really was a no brainer. Best value on the board at #11 & it was not even close. I still can not believe NE did not take him at #10. The only other guy that I would not of been upset with was Albert, but I think that would of been a bit of a reach, especially considering he is a true guard.

 

As far as expectations, I expect him to start from day one, I expect him to become a shut down corner over time & I expect him to be a nice option from Parrish & TM in the return game. This pick was all good Bill, the way the draft fell, noone should be complaining about the 1st round pick.

[todd]

I expect that after three years, he is at the very least a very good corner on the verge of making a pro-bowl. There's a reason these guys sign 5-year contracts.

 

My opinion of the pick is well known but believe it or not, I am willing to listen to some degree of reason. I do wonder just how good this kid has to play to satisfy those of you who wanted yet another first round defensive back, and think that Jauron is something less than a loser/jackass for drafting one.

 

At the #11 slot, do we have right to reasonably expect this kid to be a solid player? Should he be more of an impact player than Whitner? Should we expect him to develop into the equal of Clements? Should we expect the next Mel Blount?

 

I have never seen this small college kid play football. I have zero idea how good he is. Do you guys think that he will be as good as Winfield? Burress? Deoin Sanders? I pay no attention to defensive backs in terms of players that I think the Bills need to win. The reason for this is that I have watched 1st round dbs come and go, as the Bills continue to lose.

 

Is there something special about McKelvin that should/would make me think that this time will be different?

[D_House]

I don't know that anyone can go back and look at the scores of those Pats games and the way that we lost them and think that this team didn't need DB help in a big way. Obviously with a #1 pick the Bills were looking for starting material, maybe not right off the bat, but soon enough. McKelvin was obviously the best CB on the board according to the FO, so I can't argue with the pick.

 

I also don't think that we can reasonably assume that we'd be getting an immediate starter this year with a pick at any other position other than WR, which they went ahead and got with the 2nd round pick.

 

And while I agree with the build from the lines out strategy, this team already chose to use free agency to address the trenches. Let's not forget the investment in the O-line made last year. We also shouldn't forget that 3rd and 5th round picks went to acquiring big d-line help in the form of Marcus Stroud, while another third was spent on a pass rusher in Ellis. This regime is not forgetting the lines.