On fixing the college loan System

[DC Tom]

How can you know if Jesus would have been considered a liberal? His basic philosophy was that we should help out those less fortunate. I don't believe he ever really elaborated on the specifics of HOW those less fortunate should be helped...i.e., the classic argument of using the public means of the state (the liberal argument) or the private means of the individual (the conservative argument).

 

In my opinion, the conservative argument is much stronger. The Robin Hood moral question has already been mentioned in this thread. Plus, the evidence is pretty overwhelming where private charitable organizations end up helping the poor, sick, stupid etc... much more than the government (Katrina relief, public schools, Dept. of VA health care, etc.).

 

I believe if you look back on the Gospels (I haven't recently), Jesus would be more of a "conservative" by the criteria you outline.

 

However...that just means he'd be a "conservative" in modern American politics. For his time, his teachings were startlingly liberal.

[bills_fan]

I have 70kish in loans for an undergrad degree... I'm fine with paying interest, as the loans gave me the opportunity to go where I pleased. The problem? The interest rates aren't fixed on my loans, to fix the program, offer fixed rates creating more competition between companies offering the loans, I'm not so much worried about the base of the loan, as I am the interest it will accrue.

 

 

You really need to consolidate those. Right now it is a very good time to do that, in fact, it is probably the best time in the last 25 years and for the next 25 years. With conolidation, you lock in a fixed rate payable over 20-30 years. Forget the variable rates, lock in now since the Fed is done with rate cuts. Last time rates were almost as low as now, crica 2002, we locked in my wife's loans for undergrad and law school (about 80k) at very reasonable terms.

[Chef Jim]

Reminds me of that old "Bullwinkle" short.

 

"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of a hat!"

 

"Again? But that trick never works!"

 

"This time for sure!"

 

Dumbasses.

 

"And now for something I hope you'll reeeaaally like."

[colin]

Admittedly, there's a lot of garbage study areas in college...but history?

 

do we really need a government subsidized student loan industry for kids to drink and study history?

 

does the world need more history majors? education subsidies don't make education better as much as they make it much more expensive and spread it thinner.

[bills_fan]

education subsidies don't make education better as much as they make it much more expensive and spread it thinner.

 

 

Which is why the cost of college is going to come down dramatically. The government has made some noise about requiring colleges to abide by the same rules as private foundations regarding endowments (You must spend 5% per year) if the colleges do not use some of that huge endowment to make education more affordable. You are already seeing this at the Ivies.

[DC Tom]

do we really need a government subsidized student loan industry for kids to drink and study history?

 

does the world need more history majors? education subsidies don't make education better as much as they make it much more expensive and spread it thinner.

 

 

So your argument is that because subsidized higher education is a waste, then so is studying history?

 

I don't see where one has anything to do with the other. Pick a specialty. Does the world need more engineers? Do we really need a government subsidized student loan industry for kids to drink and study engineering? Or how about medicine? Do we really need a government subsidized student loan industry for kids to drink and study medicine...so they can then go into the soon-to-be government subsidized profession of medicine? Your argument isn't specious so much as it is complete nonsense...student loan programs don't make the subject of study useless.

[John Adams]

So your argument is that because subsidized higher education is a waste, then so is studying history?

 

I don't see where one has anything to do with the other. Pick a specialty. Does the world need more engineers? Do we really need a government subsidized student loan industry for kids to drink and study engineering? Or how about medicine? Do we really need a government subsidized student loan industry for kids to drink and study medicine...so they can then go into the soon-to-be government subsidized profession of medicine? Your argument isn't specious so much as it is complete nonsense...student loan programs don't make the subject of study useless.

 

Yeah, but I like the academic debate here. How do I feel about helping a kid go to Davidson and study communications? Umm. Not so good.

 

How do I feel about paying for a kid to go to Penn State to study electrical engineering? OK.

 

Not sure I could write a policy but if you'd just make me grand emperor of education, I could make the loan decisions on a case-by-case basis. History major with a C- average in high school? Sorry, no loan. History major with good academics and likes to read. Go ahead: Take a loan.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I believe if you look back on the Gospels (I haven't recently), Jesus would be more of a "conservative" by the criteria you outline.

 

However...that just means he'd be a "conservative" in modern American politics. For his time, his teachings were startlingly liberal.

 

That is what I was implying.

 

Not that it makes any difference and it is just a comparison... I was just trying to show how history has a way of condeming liberals to death ala what Alaska Darin and his ilk espouse. No biggy. It is always easier for some to keep guys like Barabus around... Guys like that have always been the safe, conservative choice.

 

As yes... This is all just for sh*ts and giggles. People will always take the safe bet, the avenue with less change and less risk. (ie: "conservative") To most, the liberal visonary/idealist poses nothing of benefit in their workaday life.

 

Isn't that the message (and what not to do) one should be receiving from scripture?

[colin]

So your argument is that because subsidized higher education is a waste, then so is studying history?

 

I don't see where one has anything to do with the other. Pick a specialty. Does the world need more engineers? Do we really need a government subsidized student loan industry for kids to drink and study engineering? Or how about medicine? Do we really need a government subsidized student loan industry for kids to drink and study medicine...so they can then go into the soon-to-be government subsidized profession of medicine? Your argument isn't specious so much as it is complete nonsense...student loan programs don't make the subject of study useless.

 

i'm simply stating that history and the general humanities (in the large quantity and low academic quality level they are studied at now) are bullsh1t bird courses and

everyone who did a real major at a real school breezed through some soc or hist 101 course and giggled that it was such a joke.

 

the thing is the market will determine the cost and quantity to be traded of humanities and all other educations. the problem is we have

some massively disruptive forces (which i'll call employers requiring a degree where none is actually necessary [which is essentially employers off loading their

screening and training to institutions that really shouldn't be doing that] and the massive subsidy in education) that throw off the quantity (up) and the quality (way down)

of education (in terms of dollars, years, courses, schools, and subjects).

 

i hope the subsidy is backed off in a huge way as a poster above has mentioned. we have thousands of kids spending hundreds of millions of dollars on second rate garbage

majors just so they can get a job doing whatever.

[John Adams]

i'm simply stating that history and the general humanities (in the large quantity and low academic quality level they are studied at now) are bullsh1t bird courses and

everyone who did a real major at a real school breezed through some soc or hist 101 course and giggled that it was such a joke.

 

the thing is the market will determine the cost and quantity to be traded of humanities and all other educations. the problem is we have

some massively disruptive forces (which i'll call employers requiring a degree where none is actually necessary [which is essentially employers off loading their

screening and training to institutions that really shouldn't be doing that] and the massive subsidy in education) that throw off the quantity (up) and the quality (way down)

of education (in terms of dollars, years, courses, schools, and subjects).

 

i hope the subsidy is backed off in a huge way as a poster above has mentioned. we have thousands of kids spending hundreds of millions of dollars on second rate garbage

majors just so they can get a job doing whatever.

 

Whatever you're saying about "good" vs. "bad" majors could be bolstered by starting sentences with capital letters.

[Bill from NYC]

Yeah, but I like the academic debate here. How do I feel about helping a kid go to Davidson and study communications? Umm. Not so good.

 

How do I feel about paying for a kid to go to Penn State to study electrical engineering? OK.

 

Not sure I could write a policy but if you'd just make me grand emperor of education, I could make the loan decisions on a case-by-case basis. History major with a C- average in high school? Sorry, no loan. History major with good academics and likes to read. Go ahead: Take a loan.

 

I visited Davidson, and it is a top quality school. Your point is taken, but I wish you had picked another college to rag on.

[DC Tom]

i'm simply stating that history and the general humanities (in the large quantity and low academic quality level they are studied at now) are bullsh1t bird courses and

everyone who did a real major at a real school breezed through some soc or hist 101 course and giggled that it was such a joke.

 

the thing is the market will determine the cost and quantity to be traded of humanities and all other educations. the problem is we have

some massively disruptive forces (which i'll call employers requiring a degree where none is actually necessary [which is essentially employers off loading their

screening and training to institutions that really shouldn't be doing that] and the massive subsidy in education) that throw off the quantity (up) and the quality (way down)

of education (in terms of dollars, years, courses, schools, and subjects).

 

i hope the subsidy is backed off in a huge way as a poster above has mentioned. we have thousands of kids spending hundreds of millions of dollars on second rate garbage

majors just so they can get a job doing whatever.

 

But again...it has nothing to do with the majors themselves. It has everything to do with the perception that higher education is an inalienable right, rather than a privilege.

[ieatcrayonz]

Yeah, but I like the academic debate here. How do I feel about helping a kid go to Davidson and study communications? Umm. Not so good.

 

How do I feel about paying for a kid to go to Penn State to study electrical engineering? OK.

 

Not sure I could write a policy but if you'd just make me grand emperor of education, I could make the loan decisions on a case-by-case basis. History major with a C- average in high school? Sorry, no loan. History major with good academics and likes to read. Go ahead: Take a loan.

If you get elected to that position then JUST SAY NO TO HIPPIES.

[colin]

But again...it has nothing to do with the majors themselves. It has everything to do with the perception that higher education is an inalienable right, rather than a privilege.

 

my point is that kids NEED to go to school, but don't have the chops for hard majors (or as it should be a truely well rounded university education) so you get massive humanities departments and people end up with 4 year majors in transgendered african american studies.

 

so the subsidies = too much and much worse.

[John Adams]

I visited Davidson, and it is a top quality school. Your point is taken, but I wish you had picked another college to rag on.

 

Davidson is a good school--I agree. My point was not that Davidson sucks, but that it's not worth the 40K/ year compared to a state school like Penn State for less than a quarter of the price.

 

If the kid in the example wants to study communications, he can go to Penn State or Temple or a SUNY school and not burden himself and others with 160K in loans.

[DC Tom]

my point is that kids NEED to go to school, but don't have the chops for hard majors (or as it should be a truely well rounded university education) so you get massive humanities departments and people end up with 4 year majors in transgendered african american studies.

 

so the subsidies = too much and much worse.

 

Why does anyone NEED to go to college?

[colin]

Why does anyone NEED to go to college?

 

i explained this above, a degree has widely become the minimum requirement for the majority of desirable jobs.

[Chef Jim]

i explained this above, a degree has widely become the minimum requirement for the majority of desirable jobs.

 

I have a great position in a very desirable industry. Yeah, I went to college. I love telling people I have an Associates degree in Culinary Arts..........cooking.

[colin]

I have a great position in a very desirable industry. Yeah, I went to college. I love telling people I have an Associates degree in Culinary Arts..........cooking.

 

you don't actually think you are disproving my statement do you?

 

the majority of desirabel jobs tend to require or strongly favor a 4 year degree. that along with the subsidies has produced a whole lot of education with a very small amount of actual learning and meaningful study.