Crap, the first round played out badly for improving pass D

[Pyrite Gal]

As best as I can see, there were three ways that the Bills could have gone at #11 to improve the production of their bottom of the NFL pass production:

 

1. Improve the penetration and pressure of their DL (NYG demonstrated in the last SB that a good way of stifling Brady is to put him on his butt everytime you can- Stroud was brought in to stiffen us against the run while giving us interior penetration we lusted for last year from Walker and never got from Triplett).

 

2. Improve the tackling from the LBs and their time to time penetration help (Mitchell should be a big help in this regard but depth is always an issue and Crowell as he gets older and Poz who is still unproven are question marks).

 

3. Improve the O with either a #2 WR or a receiving threat at TE (None of the players available at these two positions were worth a #11 but trading down to get more resources and be in a more appropriate position to draft a WR was a good thought).

 

Unfortunately, the run on the good DL guys even forced Jax to trade up and get Harvey who might have been on the table for us as a value if we traded down (Jax may be a pass rusher away from the SB so stretching up for Harvey MIGHT make sense for him though he only made sense for the Bills if we traded down). Improving the DL was may null and void by the way the draft went.

 

The idea of picking an LB would have been tough for us but this was simply made impossible by the CIN and the Pats taking the two best all purpose LBs on the board.

 

Perhaps we tried to trade down (we picked with some time on the clock which makes me think no) and obviously did not and made a good value pick for McKelvin who some had as an elite player (which I define as a player who gets a top 10 pick) who slipped to #11 when the Pats traded down but did not start a rush on CBs, and Jax traded up.

 

We got McKelvin who is a good value but a disappointment IMHO for anyone who really wanted us to see us use the 1st round resource to help the pass production. We simply do not use the CB in our base defense to cover WRs all over the field. McKelvin appears big enough to do press coverage and help us cover in the short zone. He seems to have the talent to do one of the primary things a CB is required to do in a Cover 2 which is contain the RB on the outside run.

 

However, unlike increased pass pressure from the DL and LBs which would really improve the way this D works against WRs going deep, the selection of a good player who can cover WRs all over the field but except for sometime change-ups will not generally be used this way is thin gruel for one interested in seeing better pass protection from the Bills.

 

The irony here is that the pass pro probably good have gone more production help from a player who helps avoid 3 and outs rather than from another CB (even a potential good one like McKelvin).

 

This who somehow think that a rookie CB is going to solve the problems created by vets like Welker and Moss are simply just likely fooling themselves.

[ax4782]

As best as I can see, there were three ways that the Bills could have gone at #11 to improve the production of their bottom of the NFL pass production:

 

1. Improve the penetration and pressure of their DL (NYG demonstrated in the last SB that a good way of stifling Brady is to put him on his butt everytime you can- Stroud was brought in to stiffen us against the run while giving us interior penetration we lusted for last year from Walker and never got from Triplett).

 

2. Improve the tackling from the LBs and their time to time penetration help (Mitchell should be a big help in this regard but depth is always an issue and Crowell as he gets older and Poz who is still unproven are question marks).

 

3. Improve the O with either a #2 WR or a receiving threat at TE (None of the players available at these two positions were worth a #11 but trading down to get more resources and be in a more appropriate position to draft a WR was a good thought).

 

Unfortunately, the run on the good DL guys even forced Jax to trade up and get Harvey who might have been on the table for us as a value if we traded down (Jax may be a pass rusher away from the SB so stretching up for Harvey MIGHT make sense for him though he only made sense for the Bills if we traded down). Improving the DL was may null and void by the way the draft went.

 

The idea of picking an LB would have been tough for us but this was simply made impossible by the CIN and the Pats taking the two best all purpose LBs on the board.

 

Perhaps we tried to trade down (we picked with some time on the clock which makes me think no) and obviously did not and made a good value pick for McKelvin who some had as an elite player (which I define as a player who gets a top 10 pick) who slipped to #11 when the Pats traded down but did not start a rush on CBs, and Jax traded up.

 

We got McKelvin who is a good value but a disappointment IMHO for anyone who really wanted us to see us use the 1st round resource to help the pass production. We simply do not use the CB in our base defense to cover WRs all over the field. McKelvin appears big enough to do press coverage and help us cover in the short zone. He seems to have the talent to do one of the primary things a CB is required to do in a Cover 2 which is contain the RB on the outside run.

 

However, unlike increased pass pressure from the DL and LBs which would really improve the way this D works against WRs going deep, the selection of a good player who can cover WRs all over the field but except for sometime change-ups will not generally be used this way is thin gruel for one interested in seeing better pass protection from the Bills.

 

The irony here is that the pass pro probably good have gone more production help from a player who helps avoid 3 and outs rather than from another CB (even a potential good one like McKelvin).

 

This who somehow think that a rookie CB is going to solve the problems created by vets like Welker and Moss are simply just likely fooling themselves.

 

Still plenty of good DL still available. Merling and Campbell are still on the board. Also, many of the top WRs that people thought would be gone by now are still there. I think we may luck out and still be able to land one in at #41, or even be able to trade back into the first and get one. I really hope they trade up and go get either Devin Thomas or Limas Sweed. Only time will tell. And Dan Connor is still on the board at LB. Don't be surprise if we try and grab him in the second either.

[Trader]

As best as I can see, there were three ways that the Bills could have gone at #11 to improve the production of their bottom of the NFL pass production:

 

1. Improve the penetration and pressure of their DL (NYG demonstrated in the last SB that a good way of stifling Brady is to put him on his butt everytime you can- Stroud was brought in to stiffen us against the run while giving us interior penetration we lusted for last year from Walker and never got from Triplett).

 

2. Improve the tackling from the LBs and their time to time penetration help (Mitchell should be a big help in this regard but depth is always an issue and Crowell as he gets older and Poz who is still unproven are question marks).

 

3. Improve the O with either a #2 WR or a receiving threat at TE (None of the players available at these two positions were worth a #11 but trading down to get more resources and be in a more appropriate position to draft a WR was a good thought).

 

Unfortunately, the run on the good DL guys even forced Jax to trade up and get Harvey who might have been on the table for us as a value if we traded down (Jax may be a pass rusher away from the SB so stretching up for Harvey MIGHT make sense for him though he only made sense for the Bills if we traded down). Improving the DL was may null and void by the way the draft went.

 

The idea of picking an LB would have been tough for us but this was simply made impossible by the CIN and the Pats taking the two best all purpose LBs on the board.

 

Perhaps we tried to trade down (we picked with some time on the clock which makes me think no) and obviously did not and made a good value pick for McKelvin who some had as an elite player (which I define as a player who gets a top 10 pick) who slipped to #11 when the Pats traded down but did not start a rush on CBs, and Jax traded up.

 

We got McKelvin who is a good value but a disappointment IMHO for anyone who really wanted us to see us use the 1st round resource to help the pass production. We simply do not use the CB in our base defense to cover WRs all over the field. McKelvin appears big enough to do press coverage and help us cover in the short zone. He seems to have the talent to do one of the primary things a CB is required to do in a Cover 2 which is contain the RB on the outside run.

 

However, unlike increased pass pressure from the DL and LBs which would really improve the way this D works against WRs going deep, the selection of a good player who can cover WRs all over the field but except for sometime change-ups will not generally be used this way is thin gruel for one interested in seeing better pass protection from the Bills.

 

The irony here is that the pass pro probably good have gone more production help from a player who helps avoid 3 and outs rather than from another CB (even a potential good one like McKelvin).

 

This who somehow think that a rookie CB is going to solve the problems created by vets like Welker and Moss are simply just likely fooling themselves.

 

I disagree we helped our pass defense greatly. We have a lot more flexibility now than we did before McKelvin.

[nodnarb]

Well if you know better than Tom Modrak and his staff, you should submit your resume to One Bills Drive

 

Good Luck!

 

 

 

As best as I can see, there were three ways that the Bills could have gone at #11 to improve the production of their bottom of the NFL pass production:

 

1. Improve the penetration and pressure of their DL (NYG demonstrated in the last SB that a good way of stifling Brady is to put him on his butt everytime you can- Stroud was brought in to stiffen us against the run while giving us interior penetration we lusted for last year from Walker and never got from Triplett).

 

2. Improve the tackling from the LBs and their time to time penetration help (Mitchell should be a big help in this regard but depth is always an issue and Crowell as he gets older and Poz who is still unproven are question marks).

 

3. Improve the O with either a #2 WR or a receiving threat at TE (None of the players available at these two positions were worth a #11 but trading down to get more resources and be in a more appropriate position to draft a WR was a good thought).

 

Unfortunately, the run on the good DL guys even forced Jax to trade up and get Harvey who might have been on the table for us as a value if we traded down (Jax may be a pass rusher away from the SB so stretching up for Harvey MIGHT make sense for him though he only made sense for the Bills if we traded down). Improving the DL was may null and void by the way the draft went.

 

The idea of picking an LB would have been tough for us but this was simply made impossible by the CIN and the Pats taking the two best all purpose LBs on the board.

 

Perhaps we tried to trade down (we picked with some time on the clock which makes me think no) and obviously did not and made a good value pick for McKelvin who some had as an elite player (which I define as a player who gets a top 10 pick) who slipped to #11 when the Pats traded down but did not start a rush on CBs, and Jax traded up.

 

We got McKelvin who is a good value but a disappointment IMHO for anyone who really wanted us to see us use the 1st round resource to help the pass production. We simply do not use the CB in our base defense to cover WRs all over the field. McKelvin appears big enough to do press coverage and help us cover in the short zone. He seems to have the talent to do one of the primary things a CB is required to do in a Cover 2 which is contain the RB on the outside run.

 

However, unlike increased pass pressure from the DL and LBs which would really improve the way this D works against WRs going deep, the selection of a good player who can cover WRs all over the field but except for sometime change-ups will not generally be used this way is thin gruel for one interested in seeing better pass protection from the Bills.

 

The irony here is that the pass pro probably good have gone more production help from a player who helps avoid 3 and outs rather than from another CB (even a potential good one like McKelvin).

 

This who somehow think that a rookie CB is going to solve the problems created by vets like Welker and Moss are simply just likely fooling themselves.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Disagree with your analysis. Pass defense is not simply about a pass rush, blitzing, or playing keep away. A good pass defense requires guys that can cover people in both man and zone.

 

This pick was a no-brainer and fairly obvious given who the head coach is.

 

The problem is whether the Bills will let Leodis waltz out the door in 4-5 years for no compensation as they have been so apt to do going back 2 decades to Odomes.

[Pete]

we made one pick, drafted the #1 CB, yet we are DOOMED!

[Sisyphean Bills]

we made one pick, drafted the #1 CB, yet we are DOOMED!

[Pyrite Gal]

we made one pick, drafted the #1 CB, yet we are DOOMED!

Fans would be foolish to conclude we are DDOOOMMMEEDDD merely because the 1st round did not play as well as it could for us. In fact things are already looking up as the plethora of lower first round and later round WR picks in this draft allowed us to be pick up Hardy who has the size and the college production in the red zone to be just what we needed.

 

I was merely commenting on the irony that actually Hardy may be as valuable to us for better results against the pass as I think in our D McKelvin will play a limited (though important) role in pass protection where as if we develop Hardy into the possession and red zone threat we want we will give up fewer passing yards simply because our offense stays on the field a lot more.

[Pete]

Fans would be foolish to conclude we are DDOOOMMMEEDDD merely because the 1st round did not play as well as it could for us. In fact things are already looking up as the plethora of lower first round and later round WR picks in this draft allowed us to be pick up Hardy who has the size and the college production in the red zone to be just what we needed.

 

I was merely commenting on the irony that actually Hardy may be as valuable to us for better results against the pass as I think in our D McKelvin will play a limited (though important) role in pass protection where as if we develop Hardy into the possession and red zone threat we want we will give up fewer passing yards simply because our offense stays on the field a lot more.

I agree. A good offense really helps a defense. Hardy is gonna help our team all around

[colin]

clearly you are insane.

 

the best cb on the board at number 11 and you are concerned that we didn't do enough for our pass d (also consider the 2 good DTs we signed and the big upgrade

at WLB along with getting healthier).

 

should we draft a kicker to help our run game?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Yep. It's hard to imagine how getting the #1 CB in the draft this year could help our pass defense.

[ans4e64]

Hate to say I told you so, but I will anyway

[obie_wan]

As best as I can see, there were three ways that the Bills could have gone at #11 to improve the production of their bottom of the NFL pass production:

 

1. Improve the penetration and pressure of their DL (NYG demonstrated in the last SB that a good way of stifling Brady is to put him on his butt everytime you can- Stroud was brought in to stiffen us against the run while giving us interior penetration we lusted for last year from Walker and never got from Triplett).

 

2. Improve the tackling from the LBs and their time to time penetration help (Mitchell should be a big help in this regard but depth is always an issue and Crowell as he gets older and Poz who is still unproven are question marks).

 

3. Improve the O with either a #2 WR or a receiving threat at TE (None of the players available at these two positions were worth a #11 but trading down to get more resources and be in a more appropriate position to draft a WR was a good thought).

 

Unfortunately, the run on the good DL guys even forced Jax to trade up and get Harvey who might have been on the table for us as a value if we traded down (Jax may be a pass rusher away from the SB so stretching up for Harvey MIGHT make sense for him though he only made sense for the Bills if we traded down). Improving the DL was may null and void by the way the draft went.

 

The idea of picking an LB would have been tough for us but this was simply made impossible by the CIN and the Pats taking the two best all purpose LBs on the board.

 

Perhaps we tried to trade down (we picked with some time on the clock which makes me think no) and obviously did not and made a good value pick for McKelvin who some had as an elite player (which I define as a player who gets a top 10 pick) who slipped to #11 when the Pats traded down but did not start a rush on CBs, and Jax traded up.

 

We got McKelvin who is a good value but a disappointment IMHO for anyone who really wanted us to see us use the 1st round resource to help the pass production. We simply do not use the CB in our base defense to cover WRs all over the field. McKelvin appears big enough to do press coverage and help us cover in the short zone. He seems to have the talent to do one of the primary things a CB is required to do in a Cover 2 which is contain the RB on the outside run.

 

However, unlike increased pass pressure from the DL and LBs which would really improve the way this D works against WRs going deep, the selection of a good player who can cover WRs all over the field but except for sometime change-ups will not generally be used this way is thin gruel for one interested in seeing better pass protection from the Bills.

 

The irony here is that the pass pro probably good have gone more production help from a player who helps avoid 3 and outs rather than from another CB (even a potential good one like McKelvin).

 

This who somehow think that a rookie CB is going to solve the problems created by vets like Welker and Moss are simply just likely fooling themselves.

 

 

the only 2 players that would have been better long term picks to help the bills defense were Harvey and Rivers and they went early as expected./

 

Bills did a good job of reading the draft and not panicking to move up needlessly.

 

As usual, the length of the post does not cover up the error of your logic.

[John from Riverside]

Yes I can easily see how a lockdown corner does not help in pass defense.......

 

Jeesh

[Ramius]

Yep. It's hard to imagine how getting the #1 CB in the draft this year could help our pass defense.

 

Ok, i wasnt sure if i was the only seeing and wondering how the hell a CB ISN'T going to help our pass D.

[Ulinski]

As best as I can see, there were three ways that the Bills could have gone at #11 to improve the production of their bottom of the NFL pass production:

 

1. Improve the penetration and pressure of their DL (NYG demonstrated in the last SB that a good way of stifling Brady is to put him on his butt everytime you can- Stroud was brought in to stiffen us against the run while giving us interior penetration we lusted for last year from Walker and never got from Triplett).

 

2. Improve the tackling from the LBs and their time to time penetration help (Mitchell should be a big help in this regard but depth is always an issue and Crowell as he gets older and Poz who is still unproven are question marks).

 

3. Improve the O with either a #2 WR or a receiving threat at TE (None of the players available at these two positions were worth a #11 but trading down to get more resources and be in a more appropriate position to draft a WR was a good thought).

 

Unfortunately, the run on the good DL guys even forced Jax to trade up and get Harvey who might have been on the table for us as a value if we traded down (Jax may be a pass rusher away from the SB so stretching up for Harvey MIGHT make sense for him though he only made sense for the Bills if we traded down). Improving the DL was may null and void by the way the draft went.

 

The idea of picking an LB would have been tough for us but this was simply made impossible by the CIN and the Pats taking the two best all purpose LBs on the board.

 

Perhaps we tried to trade down (we picked with some time on the clock which makes me think no) and obviously did not and made a good value pick for McKelvin who some had as an elite player (which I define as a player who gets a top 10 pick) who slipped to #11 when the Pats traded down but did not start a rush on CBs, and Jax traded up.

 

We got McKelvin who is a good value but a disappointment IMHO for anyone who really wanted us to see us use the 1st round resource to help the pass production. We simply do not use the CB in our base defense to cover WRs all over the field. McKelvin appears big enough to do press coverage and help us cover in the short zone. He seems to have the talent to do one of the primary things a CB is required to do in a Cover 2 which is contain the RB on the outside run.

 

However, unlike increased pass pressure from the DL and LBs which would really improve the way this D works against WRs going deep, the selection of a good player who can cover WRs all over the field but except for sometime change-ups will not generally be used this way is thin gruel for one interested in seeing better pass protection from the Bills.

 

The irony here is that the pass pro probably good have gone more production help from a player who helps avoid 3 and outs rather than from another CB (even a potential good one like McKelvin).

 

This who somehow think that a rookie CB is going to solve the problems created by vets like Welker and Moss are simply just likely fooling themselves.

Have you seen enough in the draft yet to realise that you don't understand what you think you do ?

[Steely Dan]

Disagree with your analysis. Pass defense is not simply about a pass rush, blitzing, or playing keep away. A good pass defense requires guys that can cover people in both man and zone.

 

This pick was a no-brainer and fairly obvious given who the head coach is.

 

The problem is whether the Bills will let Leodis waltz out the door in 4-5 years for no compensation as they have been so apt to do going back 2 decades to Odomes.

 

Pass rushers do not always get to the QB in time to pressure him or sack him. So when a QB has time to throw a team has to have a great corner to cover the receivers. A great CB can also help the DL's by creating coverage sacks. When a QB's receivers are covered like a glove he has to take an extra second to decide to throw to someone or to throw it out of bounds.

 

 

Yep. It's hard to imagine how getting the #1 CB in the draft this year could help our pass defense.