sorry

[BeastMode54]

A DEFENSIVE END OPTION VIA TRADE?: According to the Tampa Tribune exclusive rights free agent DE Greg White of Tampa Bay wants more money than the minimum base salary tender for a second-year player after an impressive rookie campaign in which he racked up eight sacks, seven forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries along with 45 tackles. What exactly the 28-year old would be satisfied with is not clear, but with Tampa not budging his agent may request a trade. The former Arena League star would be an interesting option for teams looking to bolster their pass rush. I know there are a lot of Bills fans that would like to see Buffalo grab Florida's Derrick Harvey at 11, so White could be another and possibly better option as he has proven what he's capable of on the field. Not to mention the fact that Tampa's defense is very similar to Buffalo's. Just a thought.

 

 

What do you think we'd have to give up to get him?

[erynthered]

Is Chris Brown even allowed to talk about anything the Bills may be thinking of doing? Somehow seeing this on BB.com sort of ensures that it ain't happening. Otherwise I think it would be a good deal depending how much we'd have to give up.

[erynthered]

I don't see why not. His job is to be the inside journalist, and he's always done idle speculation. I don't see this differently than discussing a draft prospect.

[erynthered]

This would be a trade not a draft pick so I think he could talk about it. I would love to see White in Buffalo for a 3rd maybe.

[BeastMode54]

If we could get White and Sheppard through trades and get the WR and TE we need, that would be amazing

[Joe Miner]

This would be a trade not a draft pick so I think he could talk about it. I would love to see White in Buffalo for a 3rd maybe.

 

Is your multiple personality disorder acting up again?

 

[erynthered]

Is your multiple personality disorder acting up again?

 

 

 

Just a wittle cut/paste fun, joe!

[Joe Miner]

Just a wittle cut/paste fun, joe!

 

 

I get jokes sometimes. I really do.

[Beerball]

This would be a trade not a draft pick so I think he could talk about it. I would love to see White in Buffalo for a 3rd maybe.

No thanks, can we get someone with a bit more upside, who isn't in their late 20's with only 1 year of production. A guy who's 28 who only has 1 year nfl experience wants a new contract. Pass

[erynthered]

No thanks, can we get someone with a bit more upside, who isn't in their late 20's with only 1 year of production. A guy who's 28 who only has 1 year nfl experience wants a new contract. Pass

Well since he was originally signed to a 1 year contract I'm not sure what else you would expect. If I read Brown's piece correctly he doesn't want to sign Tampas minimum tender. Can't say that I blame him for that.

[stuckincincy]

This would be a trade not a draft pick so I think he could talk about it. I would love to see White in Buffalo for a 3rd maybe.

 

 

....ping...ping...ping...

[Beerball]

Well since he was originally signed to a 1 year contract I'm not sure what else you would expect. If I read Brown's piece correctly he doesn't want to sign Tampas minimum tender. Can't say that I blame him for that.

He did produce, and should make more then minimum tender. However my problem, with a trade scenairo, is say we get him on a 2 year deal on the cheap, he produces then want's a new contract at 30, after moderate production. You probably won't see all that great production from him, in those post 30 years, and the bills are stuck with yet another bad contract at end. I don't really blame him. It's the age factor. I will say though 7 forced fumbles is pretty impressive.

[erynthered]

He did produce, and should make more then minimum tender. However my problem, with a trade scenairo, is say we get him on a 2 year deal on the cheap, he produces then want's a new contract at 30, after moderate production. You probably won't see all that great production from him, in those post 30 years, and the bills are stuck with yet another bad contract at end. I don't really blame him. It's the age factor. I will say though 7 forced fumbles is pretty impressive.

 

He would be MUCH BETTER than any DE we could get after the 1st round. He not only has experience, but experience in the Defense the Bills play. He probably would want a contract comparable to Kelseys, I would be fine with that. The Bills could then use their #1 on another position, either O-line, LB, CB, or trade down, rather than drafting Harvey.

[Beerball]

He would be MUCH BETTER than any DE we could get after the 1st round. He not only has experience, but experience in the Defense the Bills play. He probably would want a contract comparable to Kelseys, I would be fine with that. The Bills could then use their #1 on another position, either O-line, LB, CB, or trade down, rather than drafting Harvey.

I'm looking for more of a younger player, who can produce out of their rookie contract/be a starter in a year or 2. Rather then a guy who's around that 30 year mark. I can't knock the guys production, as it's pretty much what I'd love out of a de to start opposite Schobel. If it could be done without giving him a Kelsay type contract I'd be for it on a 3-4 year deal.

[erynthered]

I'm looking for more of a younger player, who can produce out of their rookie contract/be a starter in a year or 2. Rather then a guy who's around that 30 year mark. I can't knock the guys production, as it's pretty much what I'd love out of a de to start opposite Schobel. If it could be done without giving him a Kelsay type contract I'd be for it on a 3-4 year deal.

 

He would be MUCH BETTER than any DE we could get after the 1st round. He not only has experience, but experience in the Defense the Bills play. He probably would want a contract comparable to Kelseys, I would be fine with that. The Bills could then use their #1 on another position, either O-line, LB, CB, or trade down, rather than drafting Harvey.

[Beerball]

He would be MUCH BETTER than any DE we could get after the 1st round. He not only has experience, but experience in the Defense the Bills play. He probably would want a contract comparable to Kelseys, I would be fine with that. The Bills could then use their #1 on another position, either O-line, LB, CB, or trade down, rather than drafting Harvey.

My lovely wife who I love and obey has had me on Atkins for the past month. She said I could eat and drink whatever I want on Saturday, so I am thinking pizza for dinner, hot dogs(zwiegels white hots) for lunch, and Sam Adams all day long.

[erynthered]

My lovely wife who I love and obey has had me on Atkins for the past month. She said I could eat and drink whatever I want on Saturday, so I am thinking pizza for dinner, hot dogs(zwiegels white hots) for lunch, and Sam Adams all day long.

I know I am!!!! I'm so pumped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to have nachos AND pizza!!! I only pray to god that the Bills dont trade out of the first round for picks next year! Ahhhhhhhrgggghhh I cant wait that long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

But then again.....

 

Shepard may want a new contract but the reality is, he has ZERO leverage because he has three years left on his deal. He can claim he will sit out but he HAS to come back. He's not going to retire. He's in his prime. What the Bills could do is just give him a bonus, like the money they would have spent on the 11th pick versus the 19th pick (a couple million). Then say to Shepard if you come in and stay healthy and play like a pro bowler, we'll look at redoing your contract next year.

[Beerball]

I know I am!!!! I'm so pumped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to have nachos AND pizza!!! I only pray to god that the Bills dont trade out of the first round for picks next year! Ahhhhhhhrgggghhh I cant wait that long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

But then again.....

 

Shepard may want a new contract but the reality is, he has ZERO leverage because he has three years left on his deal. He can claim he will sit out but he HAS to come back. He's not going to retire. He's in his prime. What the Bills could do is just give him a bonus, like the money they would have spent on the 11th pick versus the 19th pick (a couple million). Then say to Shepard if you come in and stay healthy and play like a pro bowler, we'll look at redoing your contract next year.

Here is my vote for switching to a 3-4 and drafting Rivers (if available at 11) in the 1st and best wideout in the 2nd. If Rivers is gone attempt to trade down with KC or Philly and take your wideout in the 1st and use the extra pick aquired in the trade to move up and get Connors in the early 2nd.

 

What will this do to our defense? By swithcing to a 3-4 it will allow Stroud to stay fresh because he can platoon with McCargo and Spencer at nose. Crowell and Mitchell can fly around as outside lb's and Connor and Poz can stuff the middle. That D certainly wont be run on.

 

When KC made that trade yesterday I immediatley thought of them as another trading partner. Now maybe KC nad Philly both want the 11 pick which only helkps the Bills.

[erynthered]

Here is my vote for switching to a 3-4 and drafting Rivers (if available at 11) in the 1st and best wideout in the 2nd. If Rivers is gone attempt to trade down with KC or Philly and take your wideout in the 1st and use the extra pick aquired in the trade to move up and get Connors in the early 2nd.

 

What will this do to our defense? By swithcing to a 3-4 it will allow Stroud to stay fresh because he can platoon with McCargo and Spencer at nose. Crowell and Mitchell can fly around as outside lb's and Connor and Poz can stuff the middle. That D certainly wont be run on.

 

When KC made that trade yesterday I immediatley thought of them as another trading partner. Now maybe KC nad Philly both want the 11 pick which only helkps the Bills.

 

Do you know anyone who's had Lasik? Anyway...

 

Many are definitely correct that we have a critical need to upgrade the performance of our pass D (and our run D and avoiding 3 and outs on O as well).

 

However, where I think folks are in error is the conclusion that in order to improve the performance of our pass D the critical need is for us to draft a shut down CB.

 

It would seem obvious to draw this conclusion given the traditional manner of running an NFL D that your CBs have a consistent responsibility to cover WRs all over the field. However, this ain't your grandmothers' NFL anymore and in our scheme the base D simply does not call on the corners to cover the WRs all over the field. Their BASE duties in our D are:

 

1. Cover the WRs in the shortzone (10-12 yards but this amount varies)

2. Contain and tackle RBs making outside rushes

3. Do the CB blitz from time to time.

4. Cover the WRs going downfield from time to time.

 

The bottomline for those who want to see our pass pro improve, the more important positions to focus on improved play IMHO are:

 

A. DL- The way we run the Cover 2 depends on solid penetration and pressure from the DL and particularly the DTs shooting the gaps. This is why we had a significant interest in trying to sign sackmaster Walker whom we acquired from Philly and this is why Triplett ended up being cut because he never proved to be the consistent pressure artist he showed he might be for Indy.

 

We are going to ask a lot of new signing Stroud in that we hope he recovers and finds his Pro Bowl level play which allowed him to both pressure the QB and still perform as a stalwart run stopper back in the day. Its possible but sounds like a lot IMHO. Here's hoping he has found some fountain of youth and can return to his past form, OR FA signee Johnson or the developing Mccargo can step or their games, OR we get a phenomenal DL rusher from this draft.

 

B. I was a bit torn about this, but actually take the paradoxical stance that a key acquisition for improving the production of our pass D is actually the acquisition of a quality #2 WR. One great way of stopping the opposing O from picking up yards and first downs is simply to keep them off the field. The Bills simply had too many three and outs last year which resulted in their defense having to take the field and stop the Welker/Moss combos from doing what they do best. A definite will work way of improving the pass D production is to reduce the number of times they have to work flawlessly by keeping the ball moving in our O. If one is committed to improving our pass D you should be interested is us filling the gap left at #2 WR.

 

C. I do not think our O is going to make a lot of us of the TE, but even signing a better TE will do more for our pass D than signing a CB.

 

D. Getting better LB production will serve the dual benefit of one giving us someone who does better pass coverage in the short zone and also makes opponents runs on early downs less successful so that the opponents have a run/pass option on third down.

 

E. Again looking at how we play the CBs, if one is concerned about covering the WRs deep we are better off focusing on improved play by our safeties than on spending resources on CBs who for the norm will not be covering the WRs deep.

 

F. One needs to get down to our 6 alternative before we start looking at a better CB to help us perform better against the pass.

 

Some folks argue that we need a CB for those times when the situation calls for a more traditional D approach or to give us the flexibility to do more traditional coverage where the CB covers the WR all over the field. This view is supported by Fewell being on record saying that the Cover 2 is in fact our base D but that we only use it a quarter of the time. Some folks hear this and immediately think we need a shut down CB 3/4 of the time.

 

However, though I suspect what Fewell says is true and we only use the classic Cover 2 a quarter of the time, the other 75% is composed of:

 

a. Times we are running the variation of the classic Cover 2 called the Tampa 2 where the MLB has deep pass coverage duty in the middle of the field. In this variation on the Cover 2 the CBs still have the same short coverage and run contain duties.

 

b. Times where the yardage/distance and down call for a D which is not the Cover 2 but in now way does the CB have deep coverage responsibility. For example, it would be silly to run a Cover 2 or any zone when the opponent is in our redzone and there is not enough yardage for an opposing WR to go deep unless the play calls for him to go to the Chevy in the parking lot and look for the ball.

 

c. The game is in hand and we are in a prevent D (boy I wish this happened more).

 

Even if our base D is only employed a quarter of the time, this in no way leads to the conclusion that we are running a traditional D a lot.

 

In fact, when the circumstances call for the CB to cover the WR all over the field, we are not just hosed and Greer needs to be able to cover Moss 1 on 1. Actually, for those plays where we give the CB a more traditional duty, even this does not mandate that he be good enough to match up with Welker/Moss. Even when the CB has primary responsibility for the WR he likely is not going to have this duty alone. In fact, if a team is banking on their CB to shutdown Moss all day on his lonesome, Moss would simply being licking his chops and wondering whether he is gonna need two hands to count his TDs that day on his fingers. A team would be foolish not to run a lot of double-teams on a player like Moss. The CB generally will be assigned either the under coverage on Moss and his duty is to press cover but when he gets beat a safety will actually have the over coverage on him. Likewise with a Welker, the CB will be doing press coverage on Welker and his job will be to ride him in the first 5 yards but then break off (or expect the slippery Welker to break coverage) and someone else must be there to help out deep.

 

The bottomline is that it is gonna be relatively rare that we are going to give a CB sole coverage duty. In fact, if we do then it is silly to demand that a rookie is going to take on a vet like Welker/Moss and win many of these battles.

 

For anyone who watches the Bills understand that drafting a CB is not the first (second, third or fifth) thing we want to to do to improve our pass D.

[Beerball]

Do you know anyone who's had Lasik? Anyway...

 

Many are definitely correct that we have a critical need to upgrade the performance of our pass D (and our run D and avoiding 3 and outs on O as well).

 

However, where I think folks are in error is the conclusion that in order to improve the performance of our pass D the critical need is for us to draft a shut down CB.

 

It would seem obvious to draw this conclusion given the traditional manner of running an NFL D that your CBs have a consistent responsibility to cover WRs all over the field. However, this ain't your grandmothers' NFL anymore and in our scheme the base D simply does not call on the corners to cover the WRs all over the field. Their BASE duties in our D are:

 

1. Cover the WRs in the shortzone (10-12 yards but this amount varies)

2. Contain and tackle RBs making outside rushes

3. Do the CB blitz from time to time.

4. Cover the WRs going downfield from time to time.

 

The bottomline for those who want to see our pass pro improve, the more important positions to focus on improved play IMHO are:

 

A. DL- The way we run the Cover 2 depends on solid penetration and pressure from the DL and particularly the DTs shooting the gaps. This is why we had a significant interest in trying to sign sackmaster Walker whom we acquired from Philly and this is why Triplett ended up being cut because he never proved to be the consistent pressure artist he showed he might be for Indy.

 

We are going to ask a lot of new signing Stroud in that we hope he recovers and finds his Pro Bowl level play which allowed him to both pressure the QB and still perform as a stalwart run stopper back in the day. Its possible but sounds like a lot IMHO. Here's hoping he has found some fountain of youth and can return to his past form, OR FA signee Johnson or the developing Mccargo can step or their games, OR we get a phenomenal DL rusher from this draft.

 

B. I was a bit torn about this, but actually take the paradoxical stance that a key acquisition for improving the production of our pass D is actually the acquisition of a quality #2 WR. One great way of stopping the opposing O from picking up yards and first downs is simply to keep them off the field. The Bills simply had too many three and outs last year which resulted in their defense having to take the field and stop the Welker/Moss combos from doing what they do best. A definite will work way of improving the pass D production is to reduce the number of times they have to work flawlessly by keeping the ball moving in our O. If one is committed to improving our pass D you should be interested is us filling the gap left at #2 WR.

 

C. I do not think our O is going to make a lot of us of the TE, but even signing a better TE will do more for our pass D than signing a CB.

 

D. Getting better LB production will serve the dual benefit of one giving us someone who does better pass coverage in the short zone and also makes opponents runs on early downs less successful so that the opponents have a run/pass option on third down.

 

E. Again looking at how we play the CBs, if one is concerned about covering the WRs deep we are better off focusing on improved play by our safeties than on spending resources on CBs who for the norm will not be covering the WRs deep.

 

F. One needs to get down to our 6 alternative before we start looking at a better CB to help us perform better against the pass.

 

Some folks argue that we need a CB for those times when the situation calls for a more traditional D approach or to give us the flexibility to do more traditional coverage where the CB covers the WR all over the field. This view is supported by Fewell being on record saying that the Cover 2 is in fact our base D but that we only use it a quarter of the time. Some folks hear this and immediately think we need a shut down CB 3/4 of the time.

 

However, though I suspect what Fewell says is true and we only use the classic Cover 2 a quarter of the time, the other 75% is composed of:

 

a. Times we are running the variation of the classic Cover 2 called the Tampa 2 where the MLB has deep pass coverage duty in the middle of the field. In this variation on the Cover 2 the CBs still have the same short coverage and run contain duties.

 

b. Times where the yardage/distance and down call for a D which is not the Cover 2 but in now way does the CB have deep coverage responsibility. For example, it would be silly to run a Cover 2 or any zone when the opponent is in our redzone and there is not enough yardage for an opposing WR to go deep unless the play calls for him to go to the Chevy in the parking lot and look for the ball.

 

c. The game is in hand and we are in a prevent D (boy I wish this happened more).

 

Even if our base D is only employed a quarter of the time, this in no way leads to the conclusion that we are running a traditional D a lot.

 

In fact, when the circumstances call for the CB to cover the WR all over the field, we are not just hosed and Greer needs to be able to cover Moss 1 on 1. Actually, for those plays where we give the CB a more traditional duty, even this does not mandate that he be good enough to match up with Welker/Moss. Even when the CB has primary responsibility for the WR he likely is not going to have this duty alone. In fact, if a team is banking on their CB to shutdown Moss all day on his lonesome, Moss would simply being licking his chops and wondering whether he is gonna need two hands to count his TDs that day on his fingers. A team would be foolish not to run a lot of double-teams on a player like Moss. The CB generally will be assigned either the under coverage on Moss and his duty is to press cover but when he gets beat a safety will actually have the over coverage on him. Likewise with a Welker, the CB will be doing press coverage on Welker and his job will be to ride him in the first 5 yards but then break off (or expect the slippery Welker to break coverage) and someone else must be there to help out deep.

 

The bottomline is that it is gonna be relatively rare that we are going to give a CB sole coverage duty. In fact, if we do then it is silly to demand that a rookie is going to take on a vet like Welker/Moss and win many of these battles.

 

For anyone who watches the Bills understand that drafting a CB is not the first (second, third or fifth) thing we want to to do to improve our pass D.

i give!