VABills Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 All indications are that the Eagles want to trade up to 11 or higher to draft a DT or DE In any event, at pick 19, the Bills would have a nice selection amongst the top-rated WR's. Or Mayo and kelly in the 2nd. TE in third and spend the rest getting depth at DL, FS, OL, QB.
John from Riverside Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Well, if the only way Philly is interested is if it's a straight up swap, then I wouldn't be opposed to letting it fall through. I'm not saying the Bills have to "win" the deal. I'm just saying they should make it a little more even. If a draft value was placed on Sheppard 6 months ago, would it have been a 2nd round pick? I'm not sure, but I doubt it. But I like most teams am willing to negotiate. So I'm confident that if the Bills want Sheppard, they can get it done without giving up too much. I of course would not be opposed to getting more.....it is just that when teams start folding their arms and saying "thats it.....I am not losing on the deal and will not budge" that deals fall through..... I dont think we should want this to fall through....the draft is a crapshoot....Lito is a proven player.....and it helps to better our club. I would MUCH rather do this then draft a wideout at 11
BillsVet Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 So what does trading for Marcus Stroud say? PTR It says that Larry Tripplett was a swing and a miss. Stroud is a different type of DT than Tripplett or K. Williams, both of whom were thrown out of the way on a regular basis. Stroud was also the Bills letting go of the smaller and quicker philosophy which hasn't exactly panned out. I don't think the comparison carries weight. My take on obtaining Sheppard is that Buffalo allowed NC to go in FA, and now may (and I only mean potentially) be adding a top CB who will demand a long term deal worth many millions. Why couldn't the Bills have worked out something with NC after franchising him in Febraury 2006? I'm very sure a deal wouldn't have been in the neighborhood of what he got when FA began in March 2007 because we all know the price jumps when every team has a shot at a guy. That's as opposed to when one team has rights like Buffalo did when they franchised him. Or the Bills could have done what GB did with Corey Williams. Besides, this defense doesn't need elite corners.
In space no one can hear Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 If the value of moving up from Philly's position to ours in the first is a second rounder, give me the second rounder rather than Sheppard.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 If the value of moving up from Philly's position to ours in the first is a second rounder, give me the second rounder rather than Sheppard. That is a trade I would be HAPPY with
John from Riverside Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 It says that Larry Tripplett was a swing and a miss. Stroud is a different type of DT than Tripplett or K. Williams, both of whom were thrown out of the way on a regular basis. Stroud was also the Bills letting go of the smaller and quicker philosophy which hasn't exactly panned out. I don't think the comparison carries weight. My take on obtaining Sheppard is that Buffalo allowed NC to go in FA, and now may (and I only mean potentially) be adding a top CB who will demand a long term deal worth many millions. Why couldn't the Bills have worked out something with NC after franchising him in Febraury 2006? I'm very sure a deal wouldn't have been in the neighborhood of what he got when FA began in March 2007 because we all know the price jumps when every team has a shot at a guy. That's as opposed to when one team has rights like Buffalo did when they franchised him. Or the Bills could have done what GB did with Corey Williams. Besides, this defense doesn't need elite corners. I am not positive that the bills are changing their philosphy though...Stroud is a massive person....but not in a Ted Washington type of way....he is simply a enormous human being. If you ask me he is PERFECT for our defense especially with McCargo playing along side of him. On Lito.....I really dont see this in the same hemisphere as with Darwin Walker....who frankly didn't prove jack @hit before we traded for him.....was he ever selected to the Pro Bowl? Lito has been there twice so he DESERVES to be paid more and while our defense doesn't need elite corners should we turn down the opportunity to get one? Between Lito, McGee, Greer, and James we would have def upgraded our defense to go along with the improvements on the line and at linebacker. This is a no brainer to me.
Steely Dan Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 I would LOVE this to happen. Get a top notch corner, swap 1st round picks, take the WR we covet at the better value, then take a pass catching TE in 2nd or 3rd and a DE in 2nd or 3rd. We would be very good next year. We would have gotten, Mitchell, Johnson, Stroud, Sheppard, Will James to bolster the defense via free agency and trades, and through the draft we answer our needs at WR, TE, and depth. I WOULD LOVE THIS. Not sold on Sheppard. He's great but brittle. You don't win games with Pro-Bowlers sitting on the bench. If the Eagles just wanted to swap first round picks for him and he was willing to play for $35 million I'd say ok. Anything else and I think the Bills would be getting a bad deal. If that happened I'd still take a CB in round 3. Sheppard is good, but not that good IMO. He just turned 27, and in his 6 years in the league, he's only played 16 games once, and never started all 16. He hasn't played 15 games since 2004, which was arguably his best year with 56 tackles, and 5 interception, starting all 15 of the games he played in. Looking at numbers alone, McGee had a much better year last year than Sheppard did. Compare these two stat lines: G GS Tck Int PD 16 13 46 4 14 11 11 51 2 5 Now numbers don't tell the whole story I know, but one of those guys is Sheppard, and one isn't (not McGee either). Is Sheppard good? Yes. Would he help us out? Yes. Should we get taken in a deal to get him? No That's pretty much how I feel. Why give up a 4th? The trade down should be more then enough..... I agree. Why all the hating on Crowell???? I thought he had a really good season last year, unless I missed something...Only eight guys had more total tackles, and he also added on a couple sacks, a pick, and a safety. Playing next to Ellison and DiGiorgio for most of the season, I'd say that's pretty impressive. I don't understand the Crowell bashing either. Is he a Pro-Bowler, no, but he is a solid player. His play doesn't make linebacker a priority. The Bills have a lot bigger needs than LB. Crowell strikes me as a Phil Hansen type player. The way that I look at it if Buffalo wants talent they need to pay for it. I can see them paying for it cause all be damned if Buffalo puts a loser on the field playing and trying to get support from the Toronto market. Yeah, they need to give out money to players without taking injury history or price into account. You should call Dan Snyder he'd probably hire you as GM.
Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Plus Crow is pretty exprensive for a very average at best LB, and he is a FA after this year. Mitchell is more of a replacement for Crow, IMHO. I think Mayo would come in and be much more disruptive to offenses that you might believe. You're just being silly now. Crowell has been starting for three years now. He was near the top in tackles last year. He would be a nice starter on most teams.
Joe Miner Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 I of course would not be opposed to getting more.....it is just that when teams start folding their arms and saying "thats it.....I am not losing on the deal and will not budge" that deals fall through..... I dont think we should want this to fall through....the draft is a crapshoot....Lito is a proven player.....and it helps to better our club. I would MUCH rather do this then draft a wideout at 11 Agreed. This trade fills 2 needs (maybe 3) with 1 pick. That's a win win (win) situation. Although some may want to kill me, I wouldn't be upset if the Bills waited until round 3 or 4 and picked up Nelson as our #2 receiver. Here's a thought: Trade picks with Philly and get their 3rd. Draft someone like Balmer at 19 Draft a TE in the second (Davis/Rucker/Finely/...) Draft Nelson in the third Draft Pollack or Justice in the third with the Eagles 3rd ( )
In space no one can hear Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 You're just being silly now. Crowell has been starting for three years now. He was near the top in tackles last year. He would be a nice starter on most teams. Agreed, this replacing Crowell talk is pathetic, especially considering how many weak links we have starting on this team.
In space no one can hear Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Not sold on Sheppard. He's great but brittle. You don't win games with Pro-Bowlers sitting on the bench. If the Eagles just wanted to swap first round picks for him and he was willing to play for $35 million I'd say ok. Anything else and I think the Bills would be getting a bad deal. If that happened I'd still take a CB in round 3. That's pretty much how I feel. I agree. I don't understand the Crowell bashing either. Is he a Pro-Bowler, no, but he is a solid player. His play doesn't make linebacker a priority. The Bills have a lot bigger needs than LB. Crowell strikes me as a Phil Hansen type player. Yeah, they need to give out money to players without taking injury history or price into account. You should call Dan Snyder he'd probably hire you as GM. Agreed completely with you all your responses Steely Dan. Believe me, if Philadelphia thought Sheppard was worth the kind of money he was seeking he would have been signed. Instead, they went out and upgraded at the position by signing Samuel.
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Why couldn't the Bills have worked out something with NC after franchising him in Febraury 2006? I'm very sure a deal wouldn't have been in the neighborhood of what he got when FA began in March 2007 because we all know the price jumps when every team has a shot at a guy. Bills FO: hey, how about $55M? that's our final offer! Nate's Agent: nice try, now lets get real, we want $70M Bills FO: nfw, we're losing our shirts here. Ok, we really like your client on our defense, our new final offer is $62M Nate's agent: you're on drugs, we can get $74M in free agency, we're giving you the hometown discount, it's $69M or we're walking Bill's FO: sorry, this franchise is hemorrhaging money, we can't go above $62.3M, and that's our final, final offer Nate's agent: hey Nate, they're offering $62.3M, I'm real confident we can get you much more in FA, but it's your call Nate: show me the money, I'm sooo outa here...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Agreed. This trade fills 2 needs (maybe 3) with 1 pick. That's a win win (win) situation. Although some may want to kill me, I wouldn't be upset if the Bills waited until round 3 or 4 and picked up Nelson as our #2 receiver. Here's a thought: Trade picks with Philly and get their 3rd. Draft someone like Balmer at 19 Draft a TE in the second (Davis/Rucker/Finely/...) Draft Nelson in the third Draft Pollack or Justice in the third with the Eagles 3rd ( ) Doy you honestly think a reciver is going to fall inot our laps in the third round? I hope not becasue if the bills ahve that attitude get ready for another sh------- passing year
Joe Miner Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Doy you honestly think a reciver is going to fall inot our laps in the third round? I hope not becasue if the bills ahve that attitude get ready for another sh------- passing year Do I think a WR will be there in the third? Yeah. Will it be Nelson? Who knows, possibly. Fortunately the other NFL teams don't read TBD regularly and probably didn't catch his most recent ball washing thread, so they likely don't know how good he is.
John from Riverside Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Agreed. This trade fills 2 needs (maybe 3) with 1 pick. That's a win win (win) situation. Although some may want to kill me, I wouldn't be upset if the Bills waited until round 3 or 4 and picked up Nelson as our #2 receiver. Here's a thought: Trade picks with Philly and get their 3rd. Draft someone like Balmer at 19 Draft a TE in the second (Davis/Rucker/Finely/...) Draft Nelson in the third Draft Pollack or Justice in the third with the Eagles 3rd ( ) That is actually not a bad draft. I guess where I differ from a lot of others on this board is I believe that if used correctly one of the wideouts from the D. Thomas, K. Hardy, L. Sweed group could end up being a real positive for us: - the WR comes in without the pressure of being the #1 wideout but still has an opportunity to produce in his first year. We have two pretty good slot guys (another reason why I dont want J. Nelson) in Parrish and Reed.....that is where they need to be. - Evans likes what he sees....and signs his extension (or he DOESN"T like what he sees and we have taken a wideout with a year to get his feet wet before becoming the number one option) I personally think Lee is waiting to see if we are going to improve this club. - We hae a YOUNG QB and as a ball club this team needs to start learning that you need to give a young QB a certain comfort level in order to bring him along....this means a WR AND a quality TE. - All of this will make Marshawn Lynches job easier
Captain Hindsight Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Do I think a WR will be there in the third? Yeah. Will it be Nelson? Who knows, possibly. Fortunately the other NFL teams don't read TBD regularly and probably didn't catch his most recent ball washing thread, so they likely don't know how good he is. Very funny but we had better draft one in the first two rounds or this team is going no where fast
colin Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Well, if the only way Philly is interested is if it's a straight up swap, then I wouldn't be opposed to letting it fall through. I'm not saying the Bills have to "win" the deal. I'm just saying they should make it a little more even. If a draft value was placed on Sheppard 6 months ago, would it have been a 2nd round pick? I'm not sure, but I doubt it. But I like most teams am willing to negotiate. So I'm confident that if the Bills want Sheppard, they can get it done without giving up too much. i agree. if we get shep (and are ok with the contract) and a 3rd along w 19 overall i think that is solid. if we end up w thomas at that pick then that's a friggen great day
Steely Dan Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Bills FO: hey, how about $55M? that's our final offer! Nate's Agent: nice try, now lets get real, we want $70M Bills FO: nfw, we're losing our shirts here. Ok, we really like your client on our defense, our new final offer is $62M Nate's agent: you're on drugs, we can get $74M in free agency, we're giving you the hometown discount, it's $69M or we're walking Bill's FO: sorry, this franchise is hemorrhaging money, we can't go above $62.3M, and that's our final, final offer Nate's agent: hey Nate, they're offering $62.3M, I'm real confident we can get you much more in FA, but it's your call Nate: show me the money, I'm sooo outa here... How about we want $69 million or we're walking! Then Brandon and every other Bills rep in the room starts laughing hysterically and tells him to walk. Then at the end of the season they get together and review Clements film from SF and laugh and have a few beers together.
CJPearl2 Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 crow is a friggen good LB. lito is a better corner than nate, nate is a sick playmaker and great hitter, but lito is a more steady more fundamentally sound guy, who also has pick off and run back ability. lito on moss with donte over the top, moss breaks in for the pass and BOOM -- moss get's lazy and short armed. we would also have 4 guys in our base D that could drop back and cover the top 2 WRs on most any teams for like 4 or 5 seconds. that means sacks and turnovers. Best analysis I've seen all week.
RayFinkle Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Per John Clayton: BILLS AND CHEIFS have been on the phone talkin about a trade. This was apparently just on espn's "On the Clock" special.
Recommended Posts