UpstateSwagger Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Now I am not completely sold on a WR with our first pick -- even if we trade down. However, if you look at raw physical talent and production numbers you would be an idiot if you didn't say James Hardy is the best WR in the draft. With his size, 6'7''... and his speed, 4.5... he should already be lighting eye sockets up. But when you look at his production and playmaking history... 10+ TDs each of his three seasons with a short stint PLAYING on th IU basketball team... it really is a slam dunk. If you can over-look his off field issues, and he never was convicted, than it really is a no-brainer. He is the best WR in the draft. He had a pretty shoddy team around him and put up those numbers in a decent conference. I dare ANYONE to make a legitimate argument that Devin Thomas is a better prospect than James Hardy. Can not be done; please find a way to draft this guy.
deep2evans Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 agreed. i really really hope we find a way to get him.
obie_wan Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Now I am not completely sold on a WR with our first pick -- even if we trade down. However, if you look at raw physical talent and production numbers you would be an idiot if you didn't say James Hardy is the best WR in the draft. With his size, 6'7''... and his speed, 4.5... he should already be lighting eye sockets up. But when you look at his production and playmaking history... 10+ TDs each of his three seasons with a short stint PLAYING on th IU basketball team... it really is a slam dunk. If you can over-look his off field issues, and he never was convicted, than it really is a no-brainer. He is the best WR in the draft. He had a pretty shoddy team around him and put up those numbers in a decent conference. I dare ANYONE to make a legitimate argument that Devin Thomas is a better prospect than James Hardy. Can not be done; please find a way to draft this guy. how can a guy with such superior size and speed attributes not totally dominate at the college level? There is a huge risk that he does not have the ability to separate from NFL caliber CBs, since he struggled with that aspect of his game in college. You don't need to waste a #1 pick on a guy that can't get open, evenif he is tall.
colin Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 thomas = 7 100+ yard games in a season, MSU all time record. thomas lit up big 10 guys. thomas is a faster, better handed, smother running, harder working, more fluid WR. thomas is a total stud. i'd like a trade down and then get him, but if we take him at 11 we have a serious couple of wideouts.
BuckeyeBill Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 thomas = 7 100+ yard games in a season, MSU all time record. thomas lit up big 10 guys. thomas is a faster, better handed, smother running, harder working, more fluid WR. thomas is a total stud. i'd like a trade down and then get him, but if we take him at 11 we have a serious couple of wideouts. Wasn't the knock on Devin Thomas that he drops catchable balls?
RayFinkle Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 The legend of Hardy grows each day. He is now 6'7" and the best receiver in the draft. Tomorrow he will be 6'9" and the fastest receiver ever to come out of college.
Beerball Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 it's Hardy by a long shot... Huh? Thomas is the pick of the litter.
K-9 Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 how can a guy with such superior size and speed attributes not totally dominate at the college level? There is a huge risk that he does not have the ability to separate from NFL caliber CBs, since he struggled with that aspect of his game in college. You don't need to waste a #1 pick on a guy that can't get open, evenif he is tall. If that's true and I haven't seen ANY tape of him, then he's in for a rude awakening. If he can't seperate from college CBs consistently that will translate to the pros exponentially. GO BILLS!!!
colin Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Wasn't the knock on Devin Thomas that he drops catchable balls? they say it is a focus thing. he makes very difficult catches and runs sharp routes. being a juco transfer he reminds me of chad johnson (in play, not attitude). puts it on himself to run hard, precise routes and is a very aggressive physical guy. he has already stepped up from juco to ncaa big 10 ball, so i think he will be willing to put in the hard work he will need to excel in the nfl. he'll drop the odd ball (they all do) but he gets off the line like a monster (biggest hurdle for a rook wr imo) and if we have him really work on slants and quick routes he could be that guy just behind the 8 in the box breaking tackles just like moulds was. his natural physical ability -- speed, quickness, size, strength, body control, and desire and work ethic make him exactly our guy IMO. i used to be all over kelley, but he is either too slow or unhealthy to really be worth a number 11 (heck, even a first rounder really). he and a tight end will add the physical presence we need in our O, but without any loss of speed. he is MILES faster than reed and has size as well.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 I agree. If the goal is to get a big receiver, Hardy is the biggest--AND he's fast AND he has good hands. I'm almost certain that he's our guy. As for the knock on him not getting separation, not sure it matters much. Ben Rothlesberger made a comment the other day how he wanted a big receiver, because he wants a guy to throw the ball to when nobody's open. A guy with the size and speed of Hardy seems to fit that bill. So what if he occasionally gets jammed up at the LOS?
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Now I am not completely sold on a WR with our first pick -- even if we trade down. However, if you look at raw physical talent and production numbers you would be an idiot if you didn't say James Hardy is the best WR in the draft. With his size, 6'7''... and his speed, 4.5... he should already be lighting eye sockets up. But when you look at his production and playmaking history... 10+ TDs each of his three seasons with a short stint PLAYING on th IU basketball team... it really is a slam dunk. If you can over-look his off field issues, and he never was convicted, than it really is a no-brainer. He is the best WR in the draft. He had a pretty shoddy team around him and put up those numbers in a decent conference. I dare ANYONE to make a legitimate argument that Devin Thomas is a better prospect than James Hardy. Can not be done; please find a way to draft this guy. Couple of things: 1) There wasn't that much talent around Thomas either. 2) They played against the same competition and Thomas had more yards (and averaged a yard more per reception). Hardy doubled Thomas in Tds but Michigan St had a great goalline rb in Cauldrick (sp?) and another redzone threat in Kellen Davis. 3) You can't just ignore character issues. 4) Hardy is 6'5.5" not 6' 7" and for all this talk about big receivers, how many 6'5" or taller ever amounted to anything in the pros? This is not to knock Hardy, but it's silly to say at this stage that one is definitely better than the other one.
K-9 Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 I agree. If the goal is to get a big receiver, Hardy is the biggest--AND he's fast AND he has good hands. I'm almost certain that he's our guy. As for the knock on him not getting separation, not sure it matters much. Ben Rothlesberger made a comment the other day how he wanted a big receiver, because he wants a guy to throw the ball to when nobody's open. A guy with the size and speed of Hardy seems to fit that bill. So what if he occasionally gets jammed up at the LOS? It is the most important attribute a receiver needs in the pros. Seperation is not JUST about getting jammed at the LOS, it's about gaining seperation while running your route. If you can't do that in the pros, especially in tight spaces against the superior athletes you don't see regularly in college, defenses don't have to worry about devoting other resources to stopping you. Look no farther than the Bills. After Evans and Roscoe (who is too small to be used outside as often as he is), everybody else struggles too much with seperation. Especially Reed and our TEs. Result? Lee double-teamed and 8 or 9 man fronts to stop the run and DARE those other receivers to get open. I have not seen Hardy on tape. I don't know if this concern is valid or not. But if it IS, he will have a problem, regardless of his size. GO BILLS!!!
ans4e64 Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 how can a guy with such superior size and speed attributes not totally dominate at the college level? There is a huge risk that he does not have the ability to separate from NFL caliber CBs, since he struggled with that aspect of his game in college. You don't need to waste a #1 pick on a guy that can't get open, evenif he is tall. Huh? He did dominate... have you seen his stats?
ans4e64 Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 thomas = 7 100+ yard games in a season, MSU all time record. thomas lit up big 10 guys. thomas is a faster, better handed, smother running, harder working, more fluid WR. thomas is a total stud. i'd like a trade down and then get him, but if we take him at 11 we have a serious couple of wideouts. Thomas is NO way better handed then even Josh Reed. All that guys does is drop passes. He had 1 good year, and had to come out of JUCO. He refused to stay in because he knew there was no way he would be able to duplicate his numbers to solidify him being picked this high, thats just my opinion. He scares me.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 It is the most important attribute a receiver needs in the pros. Seperation is not about getting jammed at the LOS, it's about gaining seperation while running your route. If you can't do that in the pros, especially in tight spaces against the superior athletes you don't see regularly in college, defenses don't have to worry about devoting other resources to stopping you. Look no farther than the Bills. After Evans and Roscoe (who is too small to be used outside as often as he is), everybody else struggles too much with seperation. Especially Reed and our TEs. Result? Lee double-teamed and 8 or 9 man fronts to stop the run and DARE those other receivers to get open. I have not seen Hardy on tape. I don't know if this concern is valid or not. But if it IS, he will have a problem, regardless of his size. GO BILLS!!! I agree with your "definition" of separation. But my point was that if you're 6'6" and covered like a blanket, so what? I think Ben R's point was that a guy who is that big and with good hands, you can throw it to him regardless of the coverage and he'll make a play. But I find it hard to believe that a guy who runs a 4.5 can't get "separation."
ans4e64 Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Couple of things: 1) There wasn't that much talent around Thomas either. 2) They played against the same competition and Thomas had more yards (and averaged a yard more per reception). Hardy doubled Thomas in Tds but Michigan St had a great goalline rb in Cauldrick (sp?) and another redzone threat in Kellen Davis. 3) You can't just ignore character issues. 4) Hardy is 6'5.5" not 6' 7" and for all this talk about big receivers, how many 6'5" or taller ever amounted to anything in the pros? This is not to knock Hardy, but it's silly to say at this stage that one is definitely better than the other one. Contradict yourself much? You say Thomas didn't have talent around him either, but go on to say they had a great goaline RB and red zone threat in Kellen Davis.
Snorom Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Huh? He did dominate... have you seen his stats? I agree... Hardy = 36 TD's in 32 college games what do the Bills need... a big bad red Zone target but I do not agree that Hardy is the best WR in the draft by a long shot. AND a 6' 5.5 " WR who can catch a football 12' in the air isn't going to need a whole lot of seperation from CB's at any level. his sheer size will allow him to snag balls and shield off defenders. I can see the Bills drafting Hardy in the 1st (most likely in a trade odnw situation) and then going after Jordy Nelson in round 3 or trading back up into late round #2 for him. IMHO we need two WR's out of this draft. both with some size.
Beerball Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Thomas is NO way better handed then even Josh Reed. All that guys does is drop passes. He had 1 good year, and had to come out of JUCO. He refused to stay in because he knew there was no way he would be able to duplicate his numbers to solidify him being picked this high, thats just my opinion. He scares me. Perhaps he was JUCO because of HS grades? I don't know, just guessing. But, regardless, he dominated the competition at JUCO level. His first year at MSU was not so great. His second year...new coach who recognized his potential...what happened? You are correct sir!!! He dominated the competition. All he does is drop passes?
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 The legend of Hardy grows each day. He is now 6'7" and the best receiver in the draft. Tomorrow he will be 6'9" and the fastest receiver ever to come out of college. I heard he leaps buildings in a single bound. Small buildings, but buildings!
UpstateSwagger Posted April 24, 2008 Author Posted April 24, 2008 This is so ridiculous...can't seperate now??? Hardy and Devin Thomas had the same number of catches last year -- 79. But Hardy had 16 TDs to Thomas' 8!!!! That is in Devin Thomas' "One Shining Moment," magical year!!! Doesn't that scream Answer to our problems, he had twice as many TDs -- redzone stud. Oh yeah he also had 20 TDs combined in the two years before this one... not six catches!!!! Get out of here!
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