The Vikings are simply not smart...

[LaDairis]

Let's get this straight. Justin Smith "only" had 2 or so sacks last year, while Jared Allen led the NFL in sacks.

 

What does that really mean?

 

For one, it tells exactly how many times Justin Smith faced chips and double teams. When Smith got the chance late in the season to face Joe Thomas without help, Smith dominated, created pressure, forced turnovers, and triggered an upset. Allen may very well be a better pass rusher, but 14-2 is not an accurate reflection of the margin. Justin Smith is an excellent player who is high character and better against the run, and well more than half as effective off the edge.

 

So, instead of beating the Niners by guaranteeing 20 mil to Smith, the stupid Vikes trade their First and 2 Thirds for the "right" to pay Allen $30 mil guaranteed despite the fact that Allen is one bust away from a year long suspension and is not a very good player against the run.

 

This has to be one of the most all time brainless FO decisions.

 

 

Shocking, laughable, and we can all cheer that at least the Bills were not as stupid as the Vikes...

[Hazed and Amuzed]

Let's get this straight. Justin Smith "only" had 2 or so sacks last year, while Jared Allen led the NFL in sacks.

 

What does that really mean?

 

For one, it tells exactly how many times Justin Smith faced chips and double teams. When Smith got the chance late in the season to face Joe Thomas without help, Smith dominated, created pressure, forced turnovers, and triggered an upset. Allen may very well be a better pass rusher, but 14-2 is not an accurate reflection of the margin. Justin Smith is an excellent player who is high character and better against the run, and well more than half as effective off the edge.

 

So, instead of beating the Niners by guaranteeing 20 mil to Smith, the stupid Vikes trade their First and 2 Thirds for the "right" to pay Allen $30 mil guaranteed despite the fact that Allen is one bust away from a year long suspension and is not a very good player against the run.

 

This has to be one of the most all time brainless FO decisions.

 

 

Shocking, laughable, and we can all cheer that at least the Bills were not as stupid as the Vikes...

 

 

I actually think that it wasn't a bad move. Allen should do well considering the Vikes have the best DT tandem in the league already. It's going to cause some real match-up problems for OC's.

[ans4e64]

Let's get this straight. Justin Smith "only" had 2 or so sacks last year, while Jared Allen led the NFL in sacks.

 

What does that really mean?

 

For one, it tells exactly how many times Justin Smith faced chips and double teams. When Smith got the chance late in the season to face Joe Thomas without help, Smith dominated, created pressure, forced turnovers, and triggered an upset. Allen may very well be a better pass rusher, but 14-2 is not an accurate reflection of the margin. Justin Smith is an excellent player who is high character and better against the run, and well more than half as effective off the edge.

 

So, instead of beating the Niners by guaranteeing 20 mil to Smith, the stupid Vikes trade their First and 2 Thirds for the "right" to pay Allen $30 mil guaranteed despite the fact that Allen is one bust away from a year long suspension and is not a very good player against the run.

 

This has to be one of the most all time brainless FO decisions.

 

 

Shocking, laughable, and we can all cheer that at least the Bills were not as stupid as the Vikes...

 

And you don't think Jared Allen faced double teams? The Chiefs have nobody on their line to take the pressure of Allen, and he still led the NFL in sacks.

 

I don't agree with you that Smith would have been a better option, but I do agree it was a stupid trade by the Vikes. They gave up WAY too much.

[stinky finger]

Let's get this straight. Justin Smith "only" had 2 or so sacks last year, while Jared Allen led the NFL in sacks.

 

What does that really mean?

 

For one, it tells exactly how many times Justin Smith faced chips and double teams. When Smith got the chance late in the season to face Joe Thomas without help, Smith dominated, created pressure, forced turnovers, and triggered an upset. Allen may very well be a better pass rusher, but 14-2 is not an accurate reflection of the margin. Justin Smith is an excellent player who is high character and better against the run, and well more than half as effective off the edge.

 

So, instead of beating the Niners by guaranteeing 20 mil to Smith, the stupid Vikes trade their First and 2 Thirds for the "right" to pay Allen $30 mil guaranteed despite the fact that Allen is one bust away from a year long suspension and is not a very good player against the run.

 

This has to be one of the most all time brainless FO decisions.

 

 

Shocking, laughable, and we can all cheer that at least the Bills were not as stupid as the Vikes...

While I agree the money is laughable and, yes, a 1st & 2 3rds is steep, fact remains the Vikes brought him in for one reason only. To get to the QB. With their interior run D, they don't need Allen to excel in that dept.

 

Steep price in picks and money? You bet. Is the team better because of this? Yes it is.

 

Now, if they can only find a servicable QB this is a SB team.

[LaDairis]

I actually think that it wasn't a bad move. Allen should do well considering the Vikes have the best DT tandem in the league already. It's going to cause some real match-up problems for OC's.

 

 

 

Do you think Dan Snyder is a smart NFL owner?

[Captain Hindsight]

Let's get this straight. Justin Smith "only" had 2 or so sacks last year, while Jared Allen led the NFL in sacks.

 

What does that really mean?

 

For one, it tells exactly how many times Justin Smith faced chips and double teams. When Smith got the chance late in the season to face Joe Thomas without help, Smith dominated, created pressure, forced turnovers, and triggered an upset. Allen may very well be a better pass rusher, but 14-2 is not an accurate reflection of the margin. Justin Smith is an excellent player who is high character and better against the run, and well more than half as effective off the edge.

 

So, instead of beating the Niners by guaranteeing 20 mil to Smith, the stupid Vikes trade their First and 2 Thirds for the "right" to pay Allen $30 mil guaranteed despite the fact that Allen is one bust away from a year long suspension and is not a very good player against the run.

 

This has to be one of the most all time brainless FO decisions.

 

 

Shocking, laughable, and we can all cheer that at least the Bills were not as stupid as the Vikes...

I agree If allen messes up once, this deal is going to look awful

[LaDairis]

"And you don't think Jared Allen faced double teams?"

 

Not nearly as many as Justin Smith or Mario Williams faced. Indeed, Allen did not get double teamed most of the KC games I watched last year.

 

 

 

"The Chiefs have nobody on their line to take the pressure of Allen, and he still led the NFL in sacks."

 

Tamba Hali is the other DE.

 

So much fuss is over the actual sack, not the pressures and disruptions. Some sacks are garbage. Others are forced by other players. Hali got an assist on plenty of Allen's sacks last year. Hali prevented other teams from doubling Allen. Allen isn't that good. The only thing that is "good" about Allen is the fact that so many football "gurus" assess the talent of pass rushing by endlessly parroting the sack totals as if they are a precise measure of pass rushing. They aren't.

 

Dishing a First and two Thirds for the right to give an overrated character case top dollar is something most of us thought only Danny Snyder could do.

[LaDairis]

"While I agree the money is laughable and, yes, a 1st & 2 3rds is steep, fact remains the Vikes brought him in for one reason only. To get to the QB. With their interior run D, they don't need Allen to excel in that dept."

 

 

 

Just about the only thing good about the Vike DEs on the roster before yesterday was their run defense. Take a strong DE against the run and replace him with Allen and the run D to that side will suffer.

 

Pat Williams is really old.

[bizell]

Justin Smith's best sack season is .5 sacks higher than Jared Allen's worst sack season.

 

Smith has shown that he wasn't worth the #4 pick that was used on him - he's a solid DE, who is better against the run than rushing the passer.

 

and p.s. - Allen was showing success @ rushing the passer even before Tamba Hali came into the equation.

[The_Real]

Uh...Um....Yeah... bad...?

 

 

Not so much. Bring a guy who's 26 and led the NFL in sacks into a situation with a defense that is already good? That defensive line now has the Williams boys in the center and a dominant DE. So two 3rds and a 1st to add the league leader in sacks, who's only 26? Bad? The money fits the player as does the compensation. This isn't a 30+ WR trying to restructure a deal. It's an up and coming DE who will dominate in the league for 5 more years.

 

Good trade for both teams.

 

 

The Real

[ans4e64]

"And you don't think Jared Allen faced double teams?"

 

Not nearly as many as Justin Smith or Mario Williams faced. Indeed, Allen did not get double teamed most of the KC games I watched last year.

 

 

 

"The Chiefs have nobody on their line to take the pressure of Allen, and he still led the NFL in sacks."

 

Tamba Hali is the other DE.

 

So much fuss is over the actual sack, not the pressures and disruptions. Some sacks are garbage. Others are forced by other players. Hali got an assist on plenty of Allen's sacks last year. Hali prevented other teams from doubling Allen. Allen isn't that good. The only thing that is "good" about Allen is the fact that so many football "gurus" assess the talent of pass rushing by endlessly parroting the sack totals as if they are a precise measure of pass rushing. They aren't.

 

Dishing a First and two Thirds for the right to give an overrated character case top dollar is something most of us thought only Danny Snyder could do.

 

So Justin Smith faces more double teams than Jared Allen, and Allen isn't good.... yeah.... I'm done with this thread, you are laughable.

[In space no one can hear]

And you don't think Jared Allen faced double teams? The Chiefs have nobody on their line to take the pressure of Allen, and he still led the NFL in sacks.

 

I don't agree with you that Smith would have been a better option, but I do agree it was a stupid trade by the Vikes. They gave up WAY too much.

 

 

Also, on Allens behalf, was Kansas City ever ahead in any game?

 

Many cheaps sacks can be attributed to defensive ends playing teams

 

that are forced to pass on just about every down, because they are behind by so much.

 

Allen certainly didn't have much of a chance for those cheap sacks playing for KC.

[Gordio]

Justin Smith's best sack season is .5 sacks higher than Jared Allen's worst sack season.

 

Smith has shown that he wasn't worth the #4 pick that was used on him - he's a solid DE, who is better against the run than rushing the passer.

 

and p.s. - Allen was showing success @ rushing the passer even before Tamba Hali came into the equation.

 

I agree with this post. Comparing Smith to Allen & saying that there is not that much difference in their sack totals is laughable. The Vikes paid a steep price & it could blow up in their face if he gets suspended but this deal has made them a better team.

 

BTW, if I was the Vikings owner I would not think twice about paying for a 24 hour limo service to escort Allen around town.

[obie_wan]

And you don't think Jared Allen faced double teams? The Chiefs have nobody on their line to take the pressure of Allen, and he still led the NFL in sacks.

 

I don't agree with you that Smith would have been a better option, but I do agree it was a stupid trade by the Vikes. They gave up WAY too much.

 

maybe they concluded that their college scouts suck and they would have wasted the picks anyway

[LaDairis]

Clearly, the only "measure" of pass rush ability is actual recorded sacks, and nothing else can be considered. LeManzer Williams has the all time sack record for the Big 10. He was clearly the greatest pass rusher to ever come out of the Big 10.

 

Some DEs cheat to pass rush when they should be anchoring against the run. Allen is one of them. The best comparison would be to someone named Bob McAdoo in basketball, who scored a ton of points every time his team lost by 20, in part because Bob McAdoo only cared about scoring, in large part because most idiot fans were only capable of parroting his points scored average and insisting that anyone who challenged that "proof" of McAdoo's "greatness" was "wrong."

[LaDairis]

Also, on Allens behalf, was Kansas City ever ahead in any game?

 

Many cheaps sacks can be attributed to defensive ends playing teams

 

that are forced to pass on just about every down, because they are behind by so much.

 

Allen certainly didn't have much of a chance for those cheap sacks playing for KC.

 

 

There are several ways to look at that. The first is as you state. The second is who you are playing against, the quality of the OL etc., and the third is how many snaps you get. Allen got a lot of snaps against some very lousy blockers. He was also always "going for the sack" and not playing disciplined run defense.

[stinky finger]

"While I agree the money is laughable and, yes, a 1st & 2 3rds is steep, fact remains the Vikes brought him in for one reason only. To get to the QB. With their interior run D, they don't need Allen to excel in that dept."

 

 

 

Just about the only thing good about the Vike DEs on the roster before yesterday was their run defense. Take a strong DE against the run and replace him with Allen and the run D to that side will suffer.

 

Pat Williams is really old.

This is about the here and now. Fact is, they now have a legit rush off the edge. Allen will make a difference. Their D just got tremendously better, regardless of cost.

 

The presseure they now bring comes from up the gut (K. Williams) and off the edge. It should be dynamite.

[Mark Long Beach]

There are several ways to look at that. The first is as you state. The second is who you are playing against, the quality of the OL etc., and the third is how many snaps you get. Allen got a lot of snaps against some very lousy blockers. He was also always "going for the sack" and not playing disciplined run defense.

 

There's two points you seem to be arguing. I'm trying to clarify here, so as I see it:

 

Allen isn't that good.

the Vikings paid too much for him.

 

okay, I think the Vikings paid a lot. I think that nobody will argue this. Now the question is was it too much? Shrug. I think that it's gamble, but it's a gamble that could pay out shockingly well. We've seen defenses that were strong enough to get to and even win superbowls despite a horrendous offense (see Ravens, Tampa Bay & recently Chicago) The Vikings defense has been #1 against the run for the last two years... Even if they get a bit weaker against the run, it could be more than offset by having significantly better pash rush. The only good offense in their division just lost Hall-of-Famer Brett Favre. They have the potential of dominating their division with a powerful defense. If their offense becomes decent they could move into superbowl contendors in the weaker NFC. Sounds like a worthy gamble to me.

 

Allen aint that good: I disagree. He's shown to be a prolific pass rusher for 4 years, and is young enough to continue to be highly productive for another 4+. He is better than the Vikings current crop of DE's or likely better than the DE they could have drafted with their first rounder. The Vikings can already crush the pocket from the inside with the Williams at DT, so Allen will likely benefit even more by having other threats nearby.

[colin]

allen is sick. the problem i have is the huge contract and the picks. it's just too much to give up IMO. especially when the viqueens have a bad qb, kinda iffy cb play, and no WRs. they also aren't great at LB either

 

they have the best lines (combo of lines anyway) in the nfl. according to some posters here they just won the super bowl.

 

throw in what may be the best rb i've ever seen play, and clearly they win each game by 3 TDs or more.

 

the idea of building on strength at the expense of a true weakness is foolish -- you need balance. maybe minni can find it, but i doubt it.

 

this also goes to show the value of schoble. he has been an even great pass rushing force, and has been solid against the run. people say he is over paid, but a starting DE in the NFL is expensive.

[Simon]

If I was a Vikes fan I'd be pretty pissed.