Bill from NYC Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 Color me extremely confused. I thought Bill was from NYC, not Amherst and Philly. Maybe we should trade up for a DB this time. After all, you can never have too many corners, right?
BillsVet Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 SF has gotten WORSE in pass defense since Clements has been there, and they are paying him 80 F---IN MILLION DOLLARS!!!!! He was good, but nowhere near THAT good. Plus if we do (and I don't think we will) pick a corner at 11, we aren't going to pay him any where close to that much money (probably around what we payed Lynch last year). When did NC clone himself to play all four defensive secondary positions. We've established that a secondary relies heavily on the pass rush. Last I checked SF didn't have much of that either. It'll start a whole new brouhaha, but franchising Clements in 06 was step 1 into keeping him long term. I can't recall the last player who received the franchise tag and subsequently did their one year and went to another team. This is about long term strategy, not short term thinking. No one's saying that what SF paid NC is what he's worth. Obviously, SF leads the league in money spent AND bad season records. So universally saying NC was an 80M dollar players (when he's probably only going to see 64M) is simple simon thinking. If the Bills draft a CB in round 1, it's the closest they'll come to admitting it was a mistake to franchise NC for no reason back in 06.
Huuuge Bills Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 When did NC clone himself to play all four defensive secondary positions. We've established that a secondary relies heavily on the pass rush. Last I checked SF didn't have much of that either. It'll start a whole new brouhaha, but franchising Clements in 06 was step 1 into keeping him long term. I can't recall the last player who received the franchise tag and subsequently did their one year and went to another team. This is about long term strategy, not short term thinking. No one's saying that what SF paid NC is what he's worth. Obviously, SF leads the league in money spent AND bad season records. So universally saying NC was an 80M dollar players (when he's probably only going to see 64M) is simple simon thinking. If the Bills draft a CB in round 1, it's the closest they'll come to admitting it was a mistake to franchise NC for no reason back in 06. Asante samuel this year, and Lance Briggs would have been another, but he didn't get what he thought he could in FA. So he went back to the Bears for far less than he was asking for. Both were tagged then hit FA the following year. And getting a young CB with potential (and 1/5 the price tag) has nothing to do with letting an overrated CB walk 2 years ago. (I don't want to go CB 11 this year FWIW)
nucci Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 When did NC clone himself to play all four defensive secondary positions. We've established that a secondary relies heavily on the pass rush. Last I checked SF didn't have much of that either. It'll start a whole new brouhaha, but franchising Clements in 06 was step 1 into keeping him long term. I can't recall the last player who received the franchise tag and subsequently did their one year and went to another team. This is about long term strategy, not short term thinking. No one's saying that what SF paid NC is what he's worth. Obviously, SF leads the league in money spent AND bad season records. So universally saying NC was an 80M dollar players (when he's probably only going to see 64M) is simple simon thinking. If the Bills draft a CB in round 1, it's the closest they'll come to admitting it was a mistake to franchise NC for no reason back in 06. Only $64M - How nice - So when can the bills draft a corner? They signed 2 O-Linemen last year. Is it ok to draft any this year?
Steely Dan Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 How about these letters to the editor after the Bills 2006 draft! hahahaha Letters / Our readers speak out SECTION: SPORTS; Pg. D4 LENGTH: 350 words What was Marv thinking on draft day? I've watched (from a distance) for several months the moves Bills General Manager Marv Levy and his crew have made each time, thinking he can't top the last one. I didn't think anything could best $10 million for Peerless Price. Boy, was I wrong. Donte Whitner with the first pick beats them all. Not only does Marvelous pass up Matt Leinart (Oh, that's right, we don't need him after his brilliant QB signing of Craig Nall), he does so for the third-rated safety in the draft. What are these guys thinking? They are driving the Bills' bus off a cliff and we're along for the ride. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing for Ralph to sell the team so we can get some fresh blood in there to turn this franchise around. Jim Benz Philadelphia *** Draft day decisions may backfire on Bills Does this NFL draft smell of the Donahoe-Modrak era to you? Marv Levy is a very likable fellow but an experienced general manager he isn't. Fire Levy, Modrak, and the scouts for the pathetic 2006 draft. I would bet the farm that the Bills lose 5,000 or 10,000 season ticket holders because of this draft farce. Phil Wiggle Amherst That Leinart guy, how's he doin? I don't really know because he can't seem to push Kurt Warner out of the way to start. this is who mayock is saying the bills are picking this year....Team Pick Analysis 11. Buffalo Bills Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB, Tennessee St. The've got a heavy need at wide receiver, but there's no value at this point. The Bills go with cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie from Tennessee State. If there's one guy that's made a vertical move up the charts it's Rodgers-Cromartie. Lit up the combine, had a great Senior Bowl week, he's now on the board at No. 11. ..... I'm a little iffy on a guy with one kidney. It makes me nervous. To beat the dead horse......kudos to an organization that could let a star all-around skilled 26 year old cornerback walk in free agency, then have to use a #1 pick and pay an 8 figure signing bonus/guaranteed money to a kid who they don't even know can play in the league the next year. If CB wasn't that important then, it shouldn't be now. You can't possibly believe that NC was worth $80 million to stick around or even $50 million to stick around. Clements = overrated. He was good but will never live up to his contract. He had a very humpty-dumpty feel to him. Sometimes his plays were spectacular, other times he looked horrendous. SF has gotten WORSE in pass defense since Clements has been there, and they are paying him 80 F---IN MILLION DOLLARS!!!!! He was good, but nowhere near THAT good. Plus if we do (and I don't think we will) pick a corner at 11, we aren't going to pay him any where close to that much money (probably around what we payed Lynch last year). :thumbsup: And he's saying Sedrick Ellis this year. 1. Miami Dolphins — QB Matt Ryan, Boston College 2. St. Louis Rams — OLT Jake Long, Michigan 3. Atlanta Falcons — DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU 4. Oakland Raiders — DE Vernon Gholston, Ohio State (Jr.) 5. Kansas City Chiefs — OLT Jeff Otah, Pittsburgh 6. New York Jets — OLB Chris Long, Virginia 7. New England Patriots (from San Francisco) — RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas (Jr.) 8. Baltimore Ravens — CB-RS Leodis McKelvin, Troy 9. Cincinnati Bengals — OLT Ryan Clady, Boise State (Jr.) 10. New Orleans Saints — CB-KR Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 11. Buffalo Bills — DT Sedrick Ellis, USC If Ellis is left on the board at #11 I'd rather see Buffalo jump back and get another teams first and second rounder. They can get a good DL in the third round. Having that extra pick would allow Buffalo to get a WR, CB and TE in the first two rounds. If that happened that would be amazing! I'm sure Buffalo would have a lot of suitors for that pick and might be able to drive up the price. I'm not sold on Ellis as an NFL player. When did NC clone himself to play all four defensive secondary positions. We've established that a secondary relies heavily on the pass rush. Last I checked SF didn't have much of that either. It'll start a whole new brouhaha, but franchising Clements in 06 was step 1 into keeping him long term. I can't recall the last player who received the franchise tag and subsequently did their one year and went to another team. This is about long term strategy, not short term thinking. No one's saying that what SF paid NC is what he's worth. Obviously, SF leads the league in money spent AND bad season records. So universally saying NC was an 80M dollar players (when he's probably only going to see 64M) is simple simon thinking. If the Bills draft a CB in round 1, it's the closest they'll come to admitting it was a mistake to franchise NC for no reason back in 06. You'd think NC would have been a star in SF then with all of those passes being thrown his way. He ranked 23rd in interceptions last year. Do you really think NC was worth more than all the FA's Buffalo signed for about the same money? I don't. Taking a CB in the first round would reinforce they were smart to let NC go because they can get a first rounder a lot cheaper.
bills44 Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 Larry Felser (I think it was him). The week before the draft he had a Bills draft column where he snuck in towards the end "Don't be surprised if the Bills pick Donte Whitner from Ohio State". That was the only Whitner reference I remember hearing during the build-up towards the draft. Today's Felser column seems to imply that taking a corner in the first in the most likely scenario. Do you think he may be privy to whose at the top of our draft board this year? FWIW, Felser also pegged the Lee Evans pick - I don't recall many people predicting that pick either/
Ramius Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Maybe we should trade up for a DB this time. After all, you can never have too many corners, right? I just happen to think that i'd rather have dockery, walker and a 1st round corner that nate clements @ 80 million and a 1st round pick trying to play both LG and RT on the line. Simple economics. Better to pay a rookie CB 20 mil over 6 years and get a similar level of play than it is to pay a top FA corner 60 mil over 6 years.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 SF has gotten WORSE in pass defense since Clements has been there, and they are paying him 80 F---IN MILLION DOLLARS!!!!! He was good, but nowhere near THAT good. Plus if we do (and I don't think we will) pick a corner at 11, we aren't going to pay him any where close to that much money (probably around what we payed Lynch last year). Clements had an excellent season in SF. The guy is an absolute stud at corner. Nobody shedding any tears about that signing in SF. I believe he was even the team mvp. That rookie corner the Bills would be investing in is very unlikely to ever be as good as Nate Clements. On a per year basis, Clements will cost only a couple mill per season more, and you know Nate is going to play every game and produce. Letting Clements walk and drafting a corner in round 1 is just like letting Pat Williams walk, then using a #1 pick on John McCargo a year later. Then they had to spend more picks and salary to get Marcus Stroud because McCargo hasn't done anything his first two seasons. Meanwhile, Williams and Clements are playing at a high level elsewhere.
Ramius Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Then they had to spend more picks and salary to get Marcus Stroud because McCargo hasn't done anything his first two seasons. Meanwhile, Williams and Clements are playing at a high level elsewhere. Completely and utterly incorrect. They spent picks on stroud because Tripplett didnt pan out, NOT McCargo. McCargo will be starting alongside Stroud this season.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 They spent picks on stroud because Tripplett didnt pan out, And Triplett was a real bargain at about $1M less per season than Pat Williams. Thanks for your assistance in making a point. I haven't been paying very close attention to this great offseason, but I was under the impression that Stroud was acquired to play the nose tackle position. Triplett didn't play the nose.
Captain Hindsight Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 And Triplett was a real bargain at about $1M less per season than Pat Williams. Thanks for your assistance in making a point. I haven't been paying very close attention to this great offseason, but I was under the impression that Stroud was acquired to play the nose tackle position. Triplett didn't play the nose. Ya but Tim anderson did..... still think it was a bad trade?
Ramius Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 And Triplett was a real bargain at about $1M less per season than Pat Williams. Thanks for your assistance in making a point. I haven't been paying very close attention to this great offseason, but I was under the impression that Stroud was acquired to play the nose tackle position. Triplett didn't play the nose. Got it. So you think that stroud here is going to force mccargo to the bench. Stroud will play the nose and mccargo will play the 3. Spencer Johnson will rotate in. But, if you want to get technical, stroud was brought in to replace williams, since he started at the nose last season. And for the record, no where did i ever say that letting pat williams go was a good idea. it wasnt. Anything else you care to whine about? its what you're good at.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 22, 2008 Posted April 22, 2008 Got it. So you think that stroud here is going to force mccargo to the bench. Stroud will play the nose and mccargo will play the 3. Spencer Johnson will rotate in. But, if you want to get technical, stroud was brought in to replace williams, since he started at the nose last season. And for the record, no where did i ever say that letting pat williams go was a good idea. it wasnt. Anything else you care to whine about? its what you're good at. Excellent response tactics. I'm proud to call you my troll.
Ramius Posted April 22, 2008 Posted April 22, 2008 Excellent response tactics. I'm proud to call you my troll. So thoroughly deconstructing your argument makes me a troll? I see you've taken the common tactic of starting with the name calling when you've been proven wrong.
Dibs Posted April 22, 2008 Posted April 22, 2008 To beat the dead horse......kudos to an organization that could let a star all-around skilled 26 year old cornerback walk in free agency, then have to use a #1 pick and pay an 8 figure signing bonus/guaranteed money to a kid who they don't even know can play in the league the next year. If CB wasn't that important then, it shouldn't be now. .....and that's exactly right. The CB position is not worth elite $$$ in this defense. It was not worth it then & it is not worth it now. How can drafting to obtain a good CB be compared with paying elite money? We need solid CBs(not elite ones).....but that means we still need to find solid CBs(we need 3). If drafting in the 1st helps set us up in that area then why is that such a huge problem? All areas of the team will need to be at least solid to get to SB level.
Dibs Posted April 22, 2008 Posted April 22, 2008 Asante samuel this year, and Lance Briggs would have been another, but he didn't get what he thought he could in FA. So he went back to the Bears for far less than he was asking for. Both were tagged then hit FA the following year. And getting a young CB with potential (and 1/5 the price tag) has nothing to do with letting an overrated CB walk 2 years ago. (I don't want to go CB 11 this year FWIW) ....and Justin Smith.......and Josh Brown.
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted April 22, 2008 Posted April 22, 2008 Larry Felser (I think it was him). The week before the draft he had a Bills draft column where he snuck in towards the end "Don't be surprised if the Bills pick Donte Whitner from Ohio State". That was the only Whitner reference I remember hearing during the build-up towards the draft. Today's Felser column seems to imply that taking a corner in the first in the most likely scenario. Do you think he may be privy to whose at the top of our draft board this year? We'll see what happens on Friday, but the likely story this year is that we will trade down and..................I don't know the rest.
Steely Dan Posted April 22, 2008 Posted April 22, 2008 Clements had an excellent season in SF. The guy is an absolute stud at corner. Nobody shedding any tears about that signing in SF. I believe he was even the team mvp. That rookie corner the Bills would be investing in is very unlikely to ever be as good as Nate Clements. On a per year basis, Clements will cost only a couple mill per season more, and you know Nate is going to play every game and produce. Letting Clements walk and drafting a corner in round 1 is just like letting Pat Williams walk, then using a #1 pick on John McCargo a year later. Then they had to spend more picks and salary to get Marcus Stroud because McCargo hasn't done anything his first two seasons. Meanwhile, Williams and Clements are playing at a high level elsewhere. Oooh! He was the prettiest turd in the toilet.
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