GG Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Ok, so I haven't really been up to speed on the prospects this year. So, I decided to start looking at video of the "names" that the brain trust here holds in high regard. Started with Derrick Harvey. Crappy camera work aside, his highlight reel was rather pedestrian. But what struck me very odd is that many of his sacks came courtesy of the QB running away from a #49. I looked it up, and it's Jermaine Cunningham, a friggin sophomore no less. So here's the question for you sages, will Harvey benefit from QBs running away from Schobel?
BuffaloBilliever Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Ok, so I haven't really been up to speed on the prospects this year. So, I decided to start looking at video of the "names" that the brain trust here holds in high regard. Started with Derrick Harvey. Crappy camera work aside, his highlight reel was rather pedestrian. But what struck me very odd is that many of his sacks came courtesy of the QB running away from a #49. I looked it up, and it's Jermaine Cunningham, a friggin sophomore no less. So here's the question for you sages, will Harvey benefit from QBs running away from Schobel? *gasp* You looked at film and have actually seen him play!? THERE'S a first for draft topic on this board... I have to say, though, he's a workout warrior, will go in the first, but I will not be happy with that pick if we get him.
billsfanincuse Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 *gasp* You looked at film and have actually seen him play!? THERE'S a first for draft topic on this board... I have to say, though, he's a workout warrior, will go in the first, but I will not be happy with that pick if we get him. Neither will I. bigger needs on this team especilly after getting Stroad and johnson
Pete Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 I don't wish to see us draft Harvey or DRC at 11. Neither impresses me on the field
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 I don't wish to see us draft Harvey or DRC at 11. Neither impresses me on the field Have you ever seen either play? Being a Gator fan, I have seen Harvey. He is not Bruce Smith, but would be a good addition to the Bills.
Pete Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Have you ever seen either play? Being a Gator fan, I have seen Harvey. He is not Bruce Smith, but would be a good addition to the Bills. I have seen Florida play lots. The SEC is a a great conference and Harvey is decent. I feel 11 is too high for him though. The drop off from him to Quentin Groves or Lawrence Jackson is small IMO. I think Groves is a better pass rusher. I would rather draft a DL, OL, LB, CB, or WR with the pick-and look at DE with our second round pick. Thanks for your input though. I am sure you have seen Harvey play more then me. And as far as DRC- I have only seen footage of his game but have read many scouts reports. It seems to me he is more athlete then football player. I don't care for "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" players. I like overacheivers
Pete Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 BTW Sporting News War room (not the best draft info, but very decent) has Derrick Harvey ranked as the #6 DE- Updated Chris Long, Va. -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 266 4.75 -- 1.61 2.71 34 10-4 4.21 -- 7.02 -- 2 Phillip Merling*, Clemson -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 276 4.75 18 -- -- -- -- -- -- 3 Updated Vernon Gholston*, Ohio St. -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-2 263 4.58 37 1.59 2.69 42 10-5 4.40 -- 7.12 -- 4 Lawrence Jackson, USC -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 267 4.81 31 1.66 2.82 34 8-11 4.40 -- 7.08 -- 5 Calais Campbell*, Miami (FL) -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-8 283 5.01 17 1.71 2.90 30 9-2 4.60 -- 7.19 -- 6 Derrick Harvey*, Florida -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 269 4.86 31 1.65 2.79 29 9-3 4.36 -- 7.27 -- 7 Jeremy Geathers*, UNLV -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-2 259 4.74 30 1.65 2.84 27 8-10 4.50 -- 7.29 --
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 I have seen Florida play lots. The SEC is a a great conference and Harvey is decent. I feel 11 is too high for him though. The drop off from him to Quentin Groves or Lawrence Jackson is small IMO. I think Groves is a better pass rusher. I would rather draft a DL, OL, LB, CB, or WR with the pick-and look at DE with our second round pick. Thanks for your input though. I am sure you have seen Harvey play more then me. And as far as DRC- I have only seen footage of his game but have read many scouts reports. It seems to me he is more athlete then football player. I don't care for "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" players. I like overacheivers I only saw DRC play in the Senior Bowl. He looked VERY GOOD in that game though.
Pete Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 I only saw DRC play in the Senior Bowl. He looked VERY GOOD in that game though. He did have a great Senior Bowl. Just about everything I have read states he was shy in run support. I would prefer a more physical CB. Here is The War Rooms take on DRC(I am reading many sights-this is premium info) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB, Tennessee State War Room analysis Strengths: Is an elite athlete, with the physical tools NFL coaches drool over. Is tall with long arms and natural strength. Shows the quickness, speed and fluid hips to turn and run with receivers downfield. Shows the hands to make tough interceptions. At the Senior Bowl, showed quick footwork in backpedal, transitioning to close quickly on passes and using long arms to reach in front of receivers. Shows speed and playmaking ability as a punt returner. Weaknesses: Is a better athlete than football player; did not play nearly as well in college as he did at the Senior Bowl. At Tennessee State, allowed inferior receivers to separate and catch passes. In college, got upright in backpedal, hindering ability to transition. Lacks natural instincts, and often reacts late to receivers' routes. Shows sloppy and raw technique, raising questions of how well he learns from coaching. Does not play with intensity; does not come upfield quickly in run support, content to allow teammates to make tackles. Bottom line: Rodgers-Cromartie is a premier athlete who improved his draft stock tremendously at the Senior Bowl. In our experience, most players who knock people's socks off in the spring after failing to impress on film struggle to improve in the NFL. Rodgers-Cromartie must prove his stellar week in Mobile isn't an aberration. He still looks and plays more like the track star he also is -- he won the 60 meter dash at the 2007 Ohio Valley Conference indoor championship. Don't be surprised if an NFL team drafts Rodgers-Cromartie as high as Round 1; we don't recommend it, though, because he is a long way from being a polished NFL cornerback. We wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers-Cromartie followed the path of Andre Woolfolk, a 2003 first-round pick who already is out of the league. Not the type of player I want on the Bills. Sounds like Deon light
Adam Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Neither will I. bigger needs on this team especilly after getting Stroad and johnson Not that I am for taking Harvey, but our defensively line doesn't magically become good with the addition of Stroud and Johnson. Johnson isn't a starter- and although he has been impressive, we aren't sure about McCargo. I'd rather have a dominant line than an ok line and somewhat upgraded WR's
Last Guy on the Bench Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Ok, so I haven't really been up to speed on the prospects this year. So, I decided to start looking at video of the "names" that the brain trust here holds in high regard. Started with Derrick Harvey. Crappy camera work aside, his highlight reel was rather pedestrian. But what struck me very odd is that many of his sacks came courtesy of the QB running away from a #49. I looked it up, and it's Jermaine Cunningham, a friggin sophomore no less. So here's the question for you sages, will Harvey benefit from QBs running away from Schobel? I noticed the same thing. In fact, it took me a few minutes to realize #49 wasn't Harvey, since a lot of the pressure did seem to start with him. But all I've seen is the one highlight reel, so I'm not particularly informed. If we take him, hopefully those who are more informed (e.g., Modrak) are right. I do know that I would love a sturdy DE with some explosiveness on the left side, but whether Harvey is that guy I don't know.
Pete Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 I noticed the same thing. In fact, it took me a few minutes to realize #49 wasn't Harvey, since a lot of the pressure did seem to start with him. But all I've seen is the one highlight reel, so I'm not particularly informed. If we take him, hopefully those who are more informed (e.g., Modrak) are right. I do know that I would love a sturdy DE with some explosiveness on the left side, but whether Harvey is that guy I don't know. What is your take on Quentin Groves? IMO he might be the best pass rusher in this draft
UpstateSwagger Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Here's the thing that is overlooked about Harvey. If you really want to see what this kid is all about you have to look at the last TWO years of video. While yes, many of Harvey's sacks came from pressure developed by Jermaine Cunningham, the year before Harvey was that #49 chasing sacks towards last years first-rounder Jarvis Moss. The Florida team last year had no good defensive lineman outside of Harvey -- that was the weakness of the team last year. Harvey got hammered with double teams almost every single down as a result. IF you look at the video of him in 2006 you'll be very impressed.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 BTW Sporting News War room (not the best draft info, but very decent) has Derrick Harvey ranked as the #6 DE- Updated Chris Long, Va. -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 266 4.75 -- 1.61 2.71 34 10-4 4.21 -- 7.02 -- 2 Phillip Merling*, Clemson -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 276 4.75 18 -- -- -- -- -- -- 3 Updated Vernon Gholston*, Ohio St. -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-2 263 4.58 37 1.59 2.69 42 10-5 4.40 -- 7.12 -- 4 Lawrence Jackson, USC -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 267 4.81 31 1.66 2.82 34 8-11 4.40 -- 7.08 -- 5 Calais Campbell*, Miami (FL) -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-8 283 5.01 17 1.71 2.90 30 9-2 4.60 -- 7.19 -- 6 Derrick Harvey*, Florida -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 269 4.86 31 1.65 2.79 29 9-3 4.36 -- 7.27 -- 7 Jeremy Geathers*, UNLV -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-2 259 4.74 30 1.65 2.84 27 8-10 4.50 -- 7.29 -- I have seen him in most reports as #3 behind Long & Gholston. As you have said yourself, the SEC is a GREAT Conference so you know he has played against the BEST.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Here's the thing that is overlooked about Harvey. If you really want to see what this kid is all about you have to look at the last TWO years of video. While yes, many of Harvey's sacks came from pressure developed by Jermaine Cunningham, the year before Harvey was that #49 chasing sacks towards last years first-rounder Jarvis Moss. The Florida team last year had no good defensive lineman outside of Harvey -- that was the weakness of the team last year. Harvey got hammered with double teams almost every single down as a result. IF you look at the video of him in 2006 you'll be very impressed. Exactly in all The gators had 9 new defensive starters this past year. They lost 3 dlinemen 3 lb's and 3 db's. Harvey is not bruce smith/reggie white. He is an all around dend though. With long arms, a great closing burst. Plays the run well, and has the tools to be a good pass rusher. He would be a significant upgrade, to a dline who has all of 1 quality pass rusher, and 2 backup level dends. Schobel is aging. Denney is aging, and Chris Kelsay is well to say an incompetent starter would be an understatement. The money where paying to these guys is one thing. It hardly justifies a real reason, not to improve, at one the hardest, and most important positions on a football team. Especially when it lacks quality players. There are some other good pass rushing prospects in this draft. The question for the bills is. Would you rather have a pass rushing prospect, or a future starter. Looking at the age and lack of skill of denney/kelsay. I'm going with future starter.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 BTW Sporting News War room (not the best draft info, but very decent) has Derrick Harvey ranked as the #6 DE- Updated Chris Long, Va. -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 266 4.75 -- 1.61 2.71 34 10-4 4.21 -- 7.02 -- 2 Phillip Merling*, Clemson -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 276 4.75 18 -- -- -- -- -- -- 3 Updated Vernon Gholston*, Ohio St. -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-2 263 4.58 37 1.59 2.69 42 10-5 4.40 -- 7.12 -- 4 Lawrence Jackson, USC -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 267 4.81 31 1.66 2.82 34 8-11 4.40 -- 7.08 -- 5 Calais Campbell*, Miami (FL) -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-8 283 5.01 17 1.71 2.90 30 9-2 4.60 -- 7.19 -- 6 Derrick Harvey*, Florida -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-4 269 4.86 31 1.65 2.79 29 9-3 4.36 -- 7.27 -- 7 Jeremy Geathers*, UNLV -- -- -- -- -- -- 6-2 259 4.74 30 1.65 2.84 27 8-10 4.50 -- 7.29 -- It's hard to take any list seriously that has phillip merling rated that high, especially above vernon gholston. Calais Campbell looks the part, yet when you watch him play is very underwhelming. He'll get overdrafted on measurables alone. I still think Lawrence Jackson, was more a product of the other players around him in Sc's front 7, then because of his own skill.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Ok, so I haven't really been up to speed on the prospects this year. So, I decided to start looking at video of the "names" that the brain trust here holds in high regard. Started with Derrick Harvey. Crappy camera work aside, his highlight reel was rather pedestrian. But what struck me very odd is that many of his sacks came courtesy of the QB running away from a #49. I looked it up, and it's Jermaine Cunningham, a friggin sophomore no less. So here's the question for you sages, will Harvey benefit from QBs running away from Schobel? Actually, I saw the same thing. I was like "Who the hell is #49?"
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 He did have a great Senior Bowl. Just about everything I have read states he was shy in run support. I would prefer a more physical CB. Here is The War Rooms take on DRC(I am reading many sights-this is premium info) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB, Tennessee State War Room analysis Strengths: Is an elite athlete, with the physical tools NFL coaches drool over. Is tall with long arms and natural strength. Shows the quickness, speed and fluid hips to turn and run with receivers downfield. Shows the hands to make tough interceptions. At the Senior Bowl, showed quick footwork in backpedal, transitioning to close quickly on passes and using long arms to reach in front of receivers. Shows speed and playmaking ability as a punt returner. Weaknesses: Is a better athlete than football player; did not play nearly as well in college as he did at the Senior Bowl. At Tennessee State, allowed inferior receivers to separate and catch passes. In college, got upright in backpedal, hindering ability to transition. Lacks natural instincts, and often reacts late to receivers' routes. Shows sloppy and raw technique, raising questions of how well he learns from coaching. Does not play with intensity; does not come upfield quickly in run support, content to allow teammates to make tackles. Bottom line: Rodgers-Cromartie is a premier athlete who improved his draft stock tremendously at the Senior Bowl. In our experience, most players who knock people's socks off in the spring after failing to impress on film struggle to improve in the NFL. Rodgers-Cromartie must prove his stellar week in Mobile isn't an aberration. He still looks and plays more like the track star he also is -- he won the 60 meter dash at the 2007 Ohio Valley Conference indoor championship. Don't be surprised if an NFL team drafts Rodgers-Cromartie as high as Round 1; we don't recommend it, though, because he is a long way from being a polished NFL cornerback. We wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers-Cromartie followed the path of Andre Woolfolk, a 2003 first-round pick who already is out of the league. Not the type of player I want on the Bills. Sounds like Deon light I have to agree with most of that. I'd much rather have McKelvin or Jenkins if we're going to take a corner at #11. Rodgers-Cromartie is 2-3 years at minimum from really helping a team, if he develops. Wonder if he'd be getting this much attention if you took the Cromartie part off.....
PIZ Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Phillip Merling is a beast and would compliment Stroud and Johnson perfectly.
jangalang Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 What is your take on Quentin Groves? IMO he might be the best pass rusher in this draft Being a Bama fan, I've seen Groves a lot. When he's not hampered by an injury, he is a freakin beast of a pass rusher. He was one of those guys that teams had to gameplan for. I hate all Auburn Tigers, but would love to get this guy in the 2nd, or trade up for him, if needed.
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