Heard on Sirius radio that JP

[Flbillsfan#1]

I don't want to get in the middle of your squabble with Gordio but the offense being BETTER or NOT with Trent in there is NOT the point. The point is it wasn't any WORSE. Now before you go jumping on me for that please look at the business ramifications from the Bills side of things first. Secondly, and probably more importantly, the coaches felt more comfortable with Edwards in there. That's either right or wrong depending on your opinion of the coaches but it too, carries enormous weight obviously. The coaches gave JP two opportunities to be the starter last year and, after nearly screwing the pooch against Miami and then screwing the pooch against Jax, they simply pulled the plug. It doesn't matter that Trent screwed the pooch all season long or not as well. Like Bledsoe before him, the coaches reached the decision they couldn't win with JP at the helm. Edwards may end up being WORSE but right now he ISN'T in the eyes that matter most.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Good post, it is about economics 101. Trent will be CHEAPER than JP for a few years. He may be WORSE, lets hope not, but we won't know until the 08 season is over, one way or the other. I would like to see the Bills draft a QB in case Trent can't stay healthy or just sucks. There are supposed to be at least 6 NFL starting quality QB's in this years draft.

[Stenbar]

I am shocked nobody has made the accusation that insert poster name here is hanging from insert QB name here 's beef. Where is Ramius? That is his signature post when folks start slamming JP. These threads are the best.

They always start innocent then wham....It cant be helped....Youre one liners are classic..

[1billsfan]

Yeah, I try to stay away from these threads but I just can not help myself. Any minute now Ramius should be calling me a tard & making some kinda wiseass remark about how Im late for the short bus to pick me up from school.

 

 

Funny how a simple two sentence post can turn into an 11 page thread. It's become the thread that wouldn't die!

 

 

The NFL draft will no doubt put this baby to rest.

[keepthefaith]

I don't want to get in the middle of your squabble with Gordio but the offense being BETTER or NOT with Trent in there is NOT the point. The point is it wasn't any WORSE. Now before you go jumping on me for that please look at the business ramifications from the Bills side of things first. Secondly, and probably more importantly, the coaches felt more comfortable with Edwards in there. That's either right or wrong depending on your opinion of the coaches but it too, carries enormous weight obviously. The coaches gave JP two opportunities to be the starter last year and, after nearly screwing the pooch against Miami and then screwing the pooch against Jax, they simply pulled the plug. It doesn't matter that Trent screwed the pooch all season long or not as well. Like Bledsoe before him, the coaches reached the decision they couldn't win with JP at the helm. Edwards may end up being WORSE but right now he ISN'T in the eyes that matter most.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

As long as Jauron is the HC, it won't matter who plays QB.

[Flbillsfan#1]

I was wrong. JP won one game in 05, the houston game. But, he started against Houston (2-14), Tampa(11-5), Atl(8-8), New Orleans(3-13), San Diego (9-7), New England(10-6), Carolina(11-5) & Miami(9-7). Winning % for those teams were .492 - 63-65.

 

Holcolmb started against Cincy(11-5 win), Denver(13-3 Lost), NE (10-6 lost), KC (10-6 won), Oak (4-12 lost), NYJ (4-12 twice, split) for a opp record of 65-56 or a 537 winning %. How is that cherry picking.

JP lost 1 game to a team with a losing record, while Holcomb lost 2 games to teams with losing records. It is easy to SPIN things the way you WANT them to appear. The point is, as I said before a win or loss is about the entire team, including the coaching staff, as well as the opponent, not one player.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Funny how a simple two sentence post can turn into an 11 page thread. It's become the thread that wouldn't die!

 

 

The NFL draft will no doubt put this baby to rest.

Not unless JP is traded this weekend.

[Flbillsfan#1]

As long as Jauron is the HC, it won't matter who plays QB.

I agree unless he keeps his nose out of the offense. Tony Dungy was told when hired by the Colts, he would have NO SAY about the offense.

[Lori]

I was wrong. JP won one game in 05, the houston game. But, he started against Houston (2-14), Tampa(11-5), Atl(8-8), New Orleans(3-13), San Diego (9-7), New England(10-6), Carolina(11-5) & Miami(9-7). Winning % for those teams were .492 - 63-65.

 

Holcolmb started against Cincy(11-5 win), Denver(13-3 Lost), NE (10-6 lost), KC (10-6 won), Oak (4-12 lost), NYJ (4-12 twice, split) for a opp record of 65-56 or a 537 winning %. How is that cherry picking.

The KC game brings up an interesting, if obscure, stat: Losman is now 2-0 in games where he replaced an injured starter. Bills were losing 3-0 to the Chiefs when Holcomb was (literally) knocked out (14-3 final), and tied 3-3 with the Jets when Edwards hurt his wrist (13-3 final).

[Flbillsfan#1]

The KC game brings up an interesting, if obscure, stat: Losman is now 2-0 in games where he replaced an injured starter. Bills were losing 3-0 to the Chiefs when Holcomb was (literally) knocked out (14-3 final), and tied 3-3 with the Jets when Edwards hurt his wrist (13-3 final).

Yeah JP is very Lamonica like, it's too bad the Bills can't keep him as a back up after this year.

[Gordio]

JP lost 1 game to a team with a losing record, while Holcomb lost 2 games to teams with losing records. It is easy to SPIN things the way you WANT them to appear. The point is, as I said before a win or loss is about the entire team, including the coaching staff, as well as the opponent, not one player.

 

 

Im not trying to spin anything. You said I was cherry picking the 05 games. The winning % of teams each qb faced that year tells a different story who started against the better teams that year.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

The reason for that is the O-Line had longer to play together & become a cohesive UNIT than while JP was playing.

 

Nice Try.

It's not like Losman played 7 straight games and then Trent went in from 8 through 16 and there was an improvement.

 

It was closer to 3 to 4 on, 3 to 4 off. Or do you still think it coincidence??

You can argue the #'s all day long.

 

The bottom line is for games started and played JP 2-4 and Trent 4-5

[Flbillsfan#1]

Nice Try.

It's not like Losman played 7 straight games and then Trent went in from 8 through 16 and there was an improvement.

 

It was closer to 3 to 4 on, 3 to 4 off. Or do you still think it coincidence??

You can argue the #'s all day long.

 

The bottom line is for games started and played JP 2-4 and Trent 4-5

There was an improvement from the beginning of the year to the end. Trent played in more games at the end. The bottom line is Football is a TEAM SPORT more so than most others. A win or loss is on the ENTIRE TEAM not one player. You can say this player had a good game, that player had a bad game, but you can't put a loss on one player. ALL YOU HATERS WILL BLAME THE ENTIRE TEAM NEXT YEAR WHEN TRENT LOSES.

[Bill from NYC]

Funny how a simple two sentence post can turn into an 11 page thread. It's become the thread that wouldn't die!

 

 

The NFL draft will no doubt put this baby to rest.

 

Please don't take offense. I am only talking football with the following.....

 

This is probably a young board, which isn't at all a bad thing. Still, think about it.....many people here just were not around for the days of RJ, so a word about him is in order.

 

RJ was bigger than JP. While he might not have possessed the cannon for a 25 yard fastball that JP has, he had far better touch and a legit deep arm as well. Not only that, he could run like a deer. He had each and every thing a quarterback needs except a head for the game. He would, despite his athleticism, take sacks.

 

Now....his OL sucked. The team focused on drafting 1st round defensive backs. They were short on good receivers. and there was not a tight end on the roster that didn't suck. Tell the truth....does this sound at least a little bit familiar?

 

JP has a ton of talent. Remember when he threw those 2 TDs against Miami seconds apart? That was great, but he too takes too many sacks and, he throws those freaking ground balls. He also over throws all too often.

 

I guess what I am saying is that talent at the qb position is not to be confused with ability. Who has more talent. JP or Hasselback? OK, who is a better QB? Tell the truth.

 

In summary, I have been down this road before. It is a road paved with losses, and 1st round defensive backs. I hope that the management of this current team has enough brains to stick with Edwards, and give him the foundation that he needs. I think that the kid is good, and deserves the starting spot. Imo, it beats the schitt out of waiting for Losman to not suck, which talent notwithstanding, might never happen.

 

Again, jmo.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Please don't take offense. I am only talking football with the following.....

 

This is probably a young board, which isn't at all a bad thing. Still, think about it.....many people here just were not around for the days of RJ, so a word about him is in order.

 

RJ was bigger than JP. While he might not have possessed the cannon for a 25 yard fastball that JP has, he had far better touch and a legit deep arm as well. Not only that, he could run like a deer. He had each and every thing a quarterback needs except a head for the game. He would, despite his athleticism, take sacks.

 

Now....his OL sucked. The team focused on drafting 1st round defensive backs. They were short on good receivers. and there was not a tight end on the roster that didn't suck. Tell the truth....does this sound at least a little bit familiar?

 

JP has a ton of talent. Remember when he threw those 2 TDs against Miami seconds apart? That was great, but he too takes too many sacks and, he throws those freaking ground balls. He also over throws all too often.

 

I guess what I am saying is that talent at the qb position is not to be confused with ability. Who has more talent. JP or Hasselback? OK, who is a better QB? Tell the truth.

 

In summary, I have been down this road before. It is a road paved with losses, and 1st round defensive backs. I hope that the management of this current team has enough brains to stick with Edwards, and give him the foundation that he needs. I think that the kid is good, and deserves the starting spot. Imo, it beats the schitt out of waiting for Losman to not suck, which talent notwithstanding, might never happen.

 

Again, jmo.

I HOPE YOU"RE NOT COMPARING TRENT TO DOUG

[keepthefaith]

Please don't take offense. I am only talking football with the following.....

 

This is probably a young board, which isn't at all a bad thing. Still, think about it.....many people here just were not around for the days of RJ, so a word about him is in order.

 

RJ was bigger than JP. While he might not have possessed the cannon for a 25 yard fastball that JP has, he had far better touch and a legit deep arm as well. Not only that, he could run like a deer. He had each and every thing a quarterback needs except a head for the game. He would, despite his athleticism, take sacks.

 

Now....his OL sucked. The team focused on drafting 1st round defensive backs. They were short on good receivers. and there was not a tight end on the roster that didn't suck. Tell the truth....does this sound at least a little bit familiar?

 

JP has a ton of talent. Remember when he threw those 2 TDs against Miami seconds apart? That was great, but he too takes too many sacks and, he throws those freaking ground balls. He also over throws all too often.

 

I guess what I am saying is that talent at the qb position is not to be confused with ability. Who has more talent. JP or Hasselback? OK, who is a better QB? Tell the truth.

 

In summary, I have been down this road before. It is a road paved with losses, and 1st round defensive backs. I hope that the management of this current team has enough brains to stick with Edwards, and give him the foundation that he needs. I think that the kid is good, and deserves the starting spot. Imo, it beats the schitt out of waiting for Losman to not suck, which talent notwithstanding, might never happen.

 

Again, jmo.

 

I've been down this road before with Jauron. It won't matter who the QB is. The offense will not be a strength with him as head coach. Give him the '85 Bears defense and he'll win. Short of that, start thinking about who the next coach should/will be. I've sweated the QB fiasco for many months now. I'm over it. It won't matter.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

RJ was bigger than JP. While he might not have possessed the cannon for a 25 yard fastball that JP has, he had far better touch and a legit deep arm as well. Not only that, he could run like a deer. He had each and every thing a quarterback needs except a head for the game. He would, despite his athleticism, take sacks.

umm, I don't really agree. In some ways (don't freak out on me here), RJ reminds me of Trent. Big, pretty fast, good enough arm to throw the long ball, but a traditional pocket passer. Yeah, maybe a better touch than JP, who knows. The big difference is that TE has the built-in play clock in his head, better at sensing the pass rush, and is MUCH smarter about dumping it off to his secondary receivers. RJ was not a particularly mobile quarterback and he wasn't real good at throwing on the run like JP (or Flutie), more like Trent. He reminded me of Bledsoe; he held the ball too long trying to make something happen, and got sacked, kinda like what JP does sometimes. Sure he could scramble, he could throw the bomb, but didn't have a cannon for an arm, again like Trent. I do agree that he was like JP in that he made dumb decisions that cost ball games. He also wasn't a born leader, not saying JP is or isn't. I think JP is more liked by the players than RJ was.

 

Let's do some surgery...

 

JP's arm and legs

Trent's touch, smarts and built-in clock, and oh yeah, that poise thing

Bledsoe's leadership (most of the time)

Flutie's magic and heart

RJ's uhhh, never mind, we don't need any of his parts

 

Now we have a QB!

[keepthefaith]

umm, I don't really agree. In some ways (don't freak out on me here), RJ reminds me of Trent. Big, pretty fast, good enough arm to throw the long ball, but a traditional pocket passer. Yeah, maybe a better touch than JP, who knows. The big difference is that TE has the built-in play clock in his head, better at sensing the pass rush, and is MUCH smarter about dumping it off to his secondary receivers. RJ was not a particularly mobile quarterback and he wasn't real good at throwing on the run like JP (or Flutie), more like Trent. He reminded me of Bledsoe; he held the ball too long trying to make something happen, and got sacked, kinda like what JP does sometimes. Sure he could scramble, he could throw the bomb, but didn't have a cannon for an arm, again like Trent. I do agree that he was like JP in that he made dumb decisions that cost ball games. He also wasn't a born leader, not saying JP is or isn't. I think JP is more liked by the players than RJ was.

 

Let's do some surgery...

 

JP's arm and legs

Trent's touch, smarts and built-in clock, and oh yeah, that poise thing

Bledsoe's leadership (most of the time)

Flutie's magic and heart

RJ's uhhh, never mind, we don't need any of his parts

 

Now we have a QB!

 

Add Jim Kelly's grit and determination as well.

[Dwight Drane]

I HOPE YOU"RE NOT COMPARING TRENT TO DOUG

 

 

Actually....I will. Trent Edwards has Doug Flutie's football mind, minus the cocky prickiness. The good news is...Edwards is 6'4" and has some pepper on his throws.

 

If you put Flutie's brain in RJ's body.....you have a Hall of Famer. Flutie knew that...and that's why he was a bastage.

 

If you want to rank Bills QBs since 1973...it goes like this:

 

Kelly

 

 

Ferguson

Flutie

 

Bledsoe

Reich

Edwards

 

 

Everyone else

 

 

Edwards is currently the 6th best QB the Bills have had in the past 35 years, and can move to the 4th best by let's say.....week 6. I would say there is better than a 50/50 shot that Edwards makes it to #2 by the end of 2010, since you need to show a little longevity. If there was place to wager, I would bet that Edwards is still in the league 10 years from now barring a career ending injury, or an early retirement of Trent's chosing. I wouldn't wager that JP is still in the league in 4 years.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Actually....I will. Trent Edwards has Doug Flutie's football mind, minus the cocky prickiness. The good news is...Edwards is 6'4" and has some pepper on his throws.

 

If you put Flutie's brain in RJ's body.....you have a Hall of Famer. Flutie knew that...and that's why he was a bastage.

 

If you want to rank Bills QBs since 1973...it goes like this:

 

Kelly

 

 

Ferguson

Flutie

 

Bledsoe

Reich

Edwards

 

 

Everyone else

 

 

Edwards is currently the 6th best QB the Bills have had in the past 35 years, and can move to the 4th best by let's say.....week 6. I would say there is better than a 50/50 shot that Edwards makes it to #2 by the end of 2010, since you need to show a little longevity. If there was place to wager, I would bet that Edwards is still in the league 10 years from now barring a career ending injury, or an early retirement of Trent's chosing. I wouldn't wager that JP is still in the league in 4 years.

Trent may be way down that list by week 6. He REALLY has not shown all that much yet. You don't even know if he can stay healthy yet. A QB is not a VIABLE starter if he can't stay on the field, no matter how much ability he may have.

[Flbillsfan#1]

umm, I don't really agree. In some ways (don't freak out on me here), RJ reminds me of Trent. Big, pretty fast, good enough arm to throw the long ball, but a traditional pocket passer. Yeah, maybe a better touch than JP, who knows. The big difference is that TE has the built-in play clock in his head, better at sensing the pass rush, and is MUCH smarter about dumping it off to his secondary receivers. RJ was not a particularly mobile quarterback and he wasn't real good at throwing on the run like JP (or Flutie), more like Trent. He reminded me of Bledsoe; he held the ball too long trying to make something happen, and got sacked, kinda like what JP does sometimes. Sure he could scramble, he could throw the bomb, but didn't have a cannon for an arm, again like Trent. I do agree that he was like JP in that he made dumb decisions that cost ball games. He also wasn't a born leader, not saying JP is or isn't. I think JP is more liked by the players than RJ was.

 

Let's do some surgery...

 

JP's arm and legs

Trent's touch, smarts and built-in clock, and oh yeah, that poise thing

Bledsoe's leadership (most of the time)

Flutie's magic and heart

RJ's uhhh, never mind, we don't need any of his parts

 

Now we have a QB!

Another similarity between Rob & Trent is both are often INJURED.