John from Riverside Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Fair enough. I wish I was younger, but I have been around a while and I have seen lots of quarterbacks. Imo, Trent already has qualities that I am not sure can be taught. I noticed it the first time I saw him in pre-season against the Lions. I am of the very strong opinion that this kid, if he stays healthy, is going to be VERY good. This is why, as a Bills Fan, I choose to be happy about having Trent in Buffalo, in lieu of whining about JP and insulting Trent's sister. As for JP, my biggest wish is that we get a good offer for him and his wish of leaving town is granted. What I am waiting to see from Edwards is if he makes a progression from this year to next in recognizing and delivering the intermediate throws...... I thought he checked down to much....and that could be because we didn't have guys open down the field which is why he needs more offensive weapons.......
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 How many of those games did JP have Antony thomas starting at reciver and Robert Royal lining up on the outside. I swear wehn ever JP is in there the coaches set him up to fail or at least it seems that way You realize that at points this year in his rookie season, Edwards had Josh Reed at receiver and Fred Jackson in the backfield. Losman got to play with Moulds and Price who were much better than Reed on the outside. It goes both ways.
K-9 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 name='Gordio' date='Apr 21 2008, 01:53 PM' post='1010672']Okay, then Im an idiot I guess for thinking Losman is a bad qb. Never said he was the sole reason the bills lost those games yet... in games he did not start for the bills in that same three year period where he went as a starter 10-21 the bills are 9-8.quote] That's interesting. I didn't know that. So then the SAME player personnel and coaches all the other QBs were surrounded with managed a winning percentage of .523 while the SAME player personnel and coaches managed just .323 with JP at the helm? GO BILLS!!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 What I am waiting to see from Edwards is if he makes a progression from this year to next in recognizing and delivering the intermediate throws...... I thought he checked down to much....and that could be because we didn't have guys open down the field which is why he needs more offensive weapons....... I think you hit the nail on the head. Our receivers struggled to get open. Teams don't fear Reed as a #2.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 No, he's played 4 years in the NFL. Yeah, it sucked he was hurt for two months as a rookie, but he attended EVERY OTA and mini-camp where he got valuable reps, was in EVERY position and unit meeting before and after getting hurt, and DID see some meaningless game action later in his rookie season. We can't just dismiss his rookie season as not counting because he missed two months of physical action. He wasn't going to play that year anyway. It was his time for carrying the clipboard and learning the um, MENTAL aspects of the game. Do you also think JP has to play an extra year then to become vested and qualify for his pension as a result of his rookie year that didn't count? GO BILLS!!! He threw what like 4 passes his rookie year. Had he been with a stable organization his rookie year, the mental aspect would have some merit. I have heard NFL players say every coach is different, and they want things done their way, so what one coach teaches you goes out the window with the next regime. This has been in my opinion JP's biggest problem. It was known when he was drafted he would NEED DEVELOPMENT. His bad luck was to be drafted by an organization that has had NOTHING BUT INEPT COACHING since Marv retired.
Gordio Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Yep, as much as people want to ridicule Holcolmb & make fun of him, in 05 he was 5-4 as a starter, Losman was 0-7. IMHO, JP has been the biggest problem with the offense the last three years. People underestimate the qb position on this board. Everything runs off the qb IMO. If he is not making the proper reads, throws & decisions the offense has no chance to be successfull. Now that we got him out of there, hopefully we will see some improvement with edwards at the helm. It should be a smoother more efficient offense this year as long as Edwards stays healthy & JP does not see the field.
K-9 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 He threw what like 4 passes his rookie year. Had he been with a stable organization his rookie year, the mental aspect would have some merit. I have heard NFL players say every coach is different, and they want things done their way, so what one coach teaches you goes out the window with the next regime. This has been in my opinion JP's biggest problem. It was known when he was drafted he would NEED DEVELOPMENT. His bad luck was to be drafted by an organization that has had NOTHING BUT INEPT COACHING since Marv retired. I appreciate your view but the same organization that retarded his development in year one also named him uncontested starter in year two. He must have done SOMETHING during his OTA, mini-camp, training camp, reps from his rookie year to merit that confidence, no? Regardless, he got his REAL reps his second, third, and fourth year and didn't capitalize. For whatever reason. My point is that one cannot simply dismiss his rookie year because he missed two months with an injury. We've all watched him closely since training camp in his first year and he was making the SAME mistakes against the Jags last year as he was then. What does that tell you? It's more than just coaching for starters. GO BILLS!!!
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Yep, as much as people want to ridicule Holcolmb & make fun of him, in 05 he was 5-4 as a starter, Losman was 0-7. IMHO, JP has been the biggest problem with the offense the last three years. People underestimate the qb position on this board. Everything runs off the qb IMO. If he is not making the proper reads, throws & decisions the offense has no chance to be successfull. Now that we got him out of there, hopefully we will see some improvement with edwards at the helm. It should be a smoother more efficient offense this year as long as Edwards stays healthy & JP does not see the field. You are Cherry Picking again. NAME THE 5 teams (& their record)Holcomb beat & the 7 teams (& record) Losman lost to, then we can have a better comparison.
RayFinkle Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 You are Cherry Picking again. NAME THE 5 teams (& their record)Holcomb beat & the 7 teams (& record) Losman lost to, then we can have a better comparison. and you think HE is cherry picking?
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Simple math my good man. They went 5-11 JP's first year starting, 7-9 his 2nd & 7-9 his third. Take away his won loss record from these records & you have 9-8. Now Im sure someone is going to want to credit Losman with the KC game his first year(when holcolmb got hurt) & obviously the jets game this past year as win's for JP. Fair enough. 12-21 or a .363 winning % with jp starting & 7-8 or a .466 winning % without him starting. So as you could clearly see, the bills chances of winning on any given sunday increase more then 10% if one JP Losman never sees the field. I asked you to NAME TEAMS, you haven't done that. How about the Pats* game JP was injured the first series, do you have that as a loss for JP or Trent?
keepthefaith Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Hey, there were alot of things wrong with the offense last year. I think JP was a big part of it though. He is just not a smart accurate qb. Those 2 things wil get you beat everytime. Yeah, the offense was so much better with Trent in there.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 You are Cherry Picking again. NAME THE 5 teams (& their record)Holcomb beat & the 7 teams (& record) Losman lost to, then we can have a better comparison. Of the top of my head, Holcomb beat a playoff Bengal team on the road and had a chance to put us in position to beat the Pats on the road (the famous checkdown pass to Moulds).
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 and you think HE is cherry picking? How is it Cherry Picking to compare the teams played against?
keepthefaith Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Yep, as much as people want to ridicule Holcolmb & make fun of him, in 05 he was 5-4 as a starter, Losman was 0-7. IMHO, JP has been the biggest problem with the offense the last three years. People underestimate the qb position on this board. Everything runs off the qb IMO. If he is not making the proper reads, throws & decisions the offense has no chance to be successfull. Now that we got him out of there, hopefully we will see some improvement with edwards at the helm. It should be a smoother more efficient offense this year as long as Edwards stays healthy & JP does not see the field. Exactly. It'll be "Holcomb like" once again. I say sign Kelly to another contract and make him the backup. That'll give the team and coaches continuity. It won't matter which QB is in there since they have similar styles and capabilities. I'd let Trent be the starter, though since Kelly wasn't as popular with the fans.
Stenbar Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 and you think HE is cherry picking? You are the spider on the web just waiting to pounce..
Stenbar Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 I asked you to NAME TEAMS, you haven't done that. How about the Pats game JP was injured the first series, do you have that as a loss for JP or Trent? I remember JP'S first pass against the Pats will that help..LOL
K-9 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Yeah, the offense was so much better with Trent in there. I don't want to get in the middle of your squabble with Gordio but the offense being BETTER or NOT with Trent in there is NOT the point. The point is it wasn't any WORSE. Now before you go jumping on me for that please look at the business ramifications from the Bills side of things first. Secondly, and probably more importantly, the coaches felt more comfortable with Edwards in there. That's either right or wrong depending on your opinion of the coaches but it too, carries enormous weight obviously. The coaches gave JP two opportunities to be the starter last year and, after nearly screwing the pooch against Miami and then screwing the pooch against Jax, they simply pulled the plug. It doesn't matter that Trent screwed the pooch all season long or not as well. Like Bledsoe before him, the coaches reached the decision they couldn't win with JP at the helm. Edwards may end up being WORSE but right now he ISN'T in the eyes that matter most. GO BILLS!!!
Gordio Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 How is it Cherry Picking to compare the teams played against? I was wrong. JP won one game in 05, the houston game. But, he started against Houston (2-14), Tampa(11-5), Atl(8-8), New Orleans(3-13), San Diego (9-7), New England(10-6), Carolina(11-5) & Miami(9-7). Winning % for those teams were .492 - 63-65. Holcolmb started against Cincy(11-5 win), Denver(13-3 Lost), NE (10-6 lost), KC (10-6 won), Oak (4-12 lost), NYJ (4-12 twice, split) for a opp record of 65-56 or a 537 winning %. How is that cherry picking.
RayFinkle Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 You are the spider on the web just waiting to pounce.. I am shocked nobody has made the accusation that insert poster name here is hanging from insert QB name here 's beef. Where is Ramius? That is his signature post when folks start slamming JP. These threads are the best.
Gordio Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 I am shocked nobody has made the accusation that insert poster name here is hanging from insert QB name here 's beef. Where is Ramius? That is his signature post when folks start slamming JP. These threads are the best. Yeah, I try to stay away from these threads but I just can not help myself. Any minute now Ramius should be calling me a tard & making some kinda wiseass remark about how Im late for the short bus to pick me up from school.
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