Pyrite Gal Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 They will choose.... BOTH The NFL is all about maximizing $. I see few reasons why the NFL would make a choice to toss the 40,000+ season tickets they sell here, the 30,000+ individual game tickets they almost always sell for a game here. The millions of dollars from advertisers to the market interested in Bills games which have not only already been cultivated but generally are either used to or champing at the bit to give the NFL bucks for tie-ins. The millions of dollars of other tie-ins which have contributed to the Buffalo franchise being one of the most valuable in sports. If for some reason they feel they must throw away all of this money to get a shot at making even more money from a TOR franchise, this amount simply pales against the total $ they would get by setting up a new franchise in TOR and still maintaining the millions of dollars which are virtually guaranteed from the Buffalo franchise. IMHO, the current move is a smart move to cement the Bills claim to TOR being part of the Bills market which allows him to demand that any new franchise in TOR, in addition to the kings ransom they will pony up for the franchise they will have to make a direct payment to the Bills for invading their territory. Many folks seem to have their panties all up in a wad in their worries about whether the Bills will be attracted to TOR by the big bucks. This view might have some legitimacy if some Al Davis like new owner wants to move the team to his/her hometown, but actually the days of individual owner capitalism have been replaced with a new communal capitalism of the entire NFL being the closest thing to a printing press at the mint in terms of turning out the bucks for the group as a whole. We saw this when over the objections of the old guard like Ralph, the NFL under the leadership of Tagliaboo signed a deal which negotiated away 60.5% of the total revenue because 39.5% of the NFL take from the big cash cow of the networks is more money than the individual capitalist owners even dreamed of making from their teams. The huge interest which TOR fans are expressing in their willingness to pay huge amounts of money for a mere pre-season game is great news for those who want to keep the Bills here because it is a clear demonstration of enough interest at least initially for Toronto to more than carry its own franchise and still pay a huge fee to the Bills for not competing with the new franchise. By putting a new Toronto franchise in the same division as the Bills one not only guarantees two sell-outs but begins to build a rivalry which creates more interest in both franchises. The Bills business will be harder as the regional marketing scheme we have suddenly needs to compete up north, but actually, Toronto is looked upon by a significant number of Southern Ontarians with disdain and the Bills even in a TOR/NFL world would still give the Bills some significant support. As long as there are customers willing to give their nickels to the NFL, the league will make every effort to take their nickels. I for one am not worried about TOR taking away the Bills franchise and I am made even less worried because of the tremendous interest north of the border.
jjsiepierski34 Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 They will choose.... BOTH The NFL is all about maximizing $. I see few reasons why the NFL would make a choice to toss the 40,000+ season tickets they sell here, the 30,000+ individual game tickets they almost always sell for a game here. The millions of dollars from advertisers to the market interested in Bills games which have not only already been cultivated but generally are either used to or champing at the bit to give the NFL bucks for tie-ins. The millions of dollars of other tie-ins which have contributed to the Buffalo franchise being one of the most valuable in sports. If for some reason they feel they must throw away all of this money to get a shot at making even more money from a TOR franchise, this amount simply pales against the total $ they would get by setting up a new franchise in TOR and still maintaining the millions of dollars which are virtually guaranteed from the Buffalo franchise. IMHO, the current move is a smart move to cement the Bills claim to TOR being part of the Bills market which allows him to demand that any new franchise in TOR, in addition to the kings ransom they will pony up for the franchise they will have to make a direct payment to the Bills for invading their territory. Many folks seem to have their panties all up in a wad in their worries about whether the Bills will be attracted to TOR by the big bucks. This view might have some legitimacy if some Al Davis like new owner wants to move the team to his/her hometown, but actually the days of individual owner capitalism have been replaced with a new communal capitalism of the entire NFL being the closest thing to a printing press at the mint in terms of turning out the bucks for the group as a whole. We saw this when over the objections of the old guard like Ralph, the NFL under the leadership of Tagliaboo signed a deal which negotiated away 60.5% of the total revenue because 39.5% of the NFL take from the big cash cow of the networks is more money than the individual capitalist owners even dreamed of making from their teams. The huge interest which TOR fans are expressing in their willingness to pay huge amounts of money for a mere pre-season game is great news for those who want to keep the Bills here because it is a clear demonstration of enough interest at least initially for Toronto to more than carry its own franchise and still pay a huge fee to the Bills for not competing with the new franchise. By putting a new Toronto franchise in the same division as the Bills one not only guarantees two sell-outs but begins to build a rivalry which creates more interest in both franchises. The Bills business will be harder as the regional marketing scheme we have suddenly needs to compete up north, but actually, Toronto is looked upon by a significant number of Southern Ontarians with disdain and the Bills even in a TOR/NFL world would still give the Bills some significant support. As long as there are customers willing to give their nickels to the NFL, the league will make every effort to take their nickels. I for one am not worried about TOR taking away the Bills franchise and I am made even less worried because of the tremendous interest north of the border. No way. The NFL has become about local business sponsorship, and selling the mid-level luxury suites. The Bills will always sell out (general admission and a solid season ticket foundation), but we get hurt in the revenue generated by local businesses because we can't sell those suites...we have none stepping up and then the media blames it on the local economy. Ingram should step up...Sportservice (Jacobs) should step up, Praxair should step up, Geico should...etc. These are healthy companys. I say raise ticket prices. They are building it, and we will/have come. The Bills are trying...they are signing players and active in the community! The players play hard, and they all actively recruit other players to tell them what a great place it is to live and play...Stop saying you have the "most affordable" gameday experience, and raise the ticket prices at least to mid-level within the NFL because we are not getting local businesses support. There are indeed businesses in the Rough Buff, but no one steps up. The Bills have the lowest ticket prices in the league, and when our owner gripes about profits and losses, we as fans call him cheap? Ralph Wilson should be looked at as a saint in the town of Buffalo IMO. The team is beloved, the history is rich, and the players generally behave. If the businesses dont want to step up, leave it to us the fans, and raise the ticket prices; screw Toronto...lets all generate some revenue and get some dope players in here to win a Super Bowl on our own.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 They will choose.... BOTH The NFL is all about maximizing $. I see few reasons why the NFL would make a choice to toss the 40,000+ season tickets they sell here, the 30,000+ individual game tickets they almost always sell for a game here. The millions of dollars from advertisers to the market interested in Bills games which have not only already been cultivated but generally are either used to or champing at the bit to give the NFL bucks for tie-ins. The millions of dollars of other tie-ins which have contributed to the Buffalo franchise being one of the most valuable in sports. If for some reason they feel they must throw away all of this money to get a shot at making even more money from a TOR franchise, this amount simply pales against the total $ they would get by setting up a new franchise in TOR and still maintaining the millions of dollars which are virtually guaranteed from the Buffalo franchise. IMHO, the current move is a smart move to cement the Bills claim to TOR being part of the Bills market which allows him to demand that any new franchise in TOR, in addition to the kings ransom they will pony up for the franchise they will have to make a direct payment to the Bills for invading their territory. Many folks seem to have their panties all up in a wad in their worries about whether the Bills will be attracted to TOR by the big bucks. This view might have some legitimacy if some Al Davis like new owner wants to move the team to his/her hometown, but actually the days of individual owner capitalism have been replaced with a new communal capitalism of the entire NFL being the closest thing to a printing press at the mint in terms of turning out the bucks for the group as a whole. We saw this when over the objections of the old guard like Ralph, the NFL under the leadership of Tagliaboo signed a deal which negotiated away 60.5% of the total revenue because 39.5% of the NFL take from the big cash cow of the networks is more money than the individual capitalist owners even dreamed of making from their teams. The huge interest which TOR fans are expressing in their willingness to pay huge amounts of money for a mere pre-season game is great news for those who want to keep the Bills here because it is a clear demonstration of enough interest at least initially for Toronto to more than carry its own franchise and still pay a huge fee to the Bills for not competing with the new franchise. By putting a new Toronto franchise in the same division as the Bills one not only guarantees two sell-outs but begins to build a rivalry which creates more interest in both franchises. The Bills business will be harder as the regional marketing scheme we have suddenly needs to compete up north, but actually, Toronto is looked upon by a significant number of Southern Ontarians with disdain and the Bills even in a TOR/NFL world would still give the Bills some significant support. As long as there are customers willing to give their nickels to the NFL, the league will make every effort to take their nickels. I for one am not worried about TOR taking away the Bills franchise and I am made even less worried because of the tremendous interest north of the border. The one flaw in your theory is Ralph has said the team will be sold to the highest bidder when he dies. When they see how well the Bills do in Toronto, the people with $$$$ up there will OVERPAY to get the Bills. They have wanted a team in Toronto for YEARS.
Pyrite Gal Posted April 16, 2008 Author Posted April 16, 2008 No way. The NFL has become about local business sponsorship, and selling the mid-level luxury suites. The Bills will always sell out (general admission and a solid season ticket foundation), but we get hurt in the revenue generated by local businesses because we can't sell those suites...we have none stepping up and then the media blames it on the local economy. Ingram should step up...Sportservice (Jacobs) should step up, Praxair should step up, Geico should...etc. These are healthy companys. I say raise ticket prices. They are building it, and we will/have come. The Bills are trying...they are signing players and active in the community! The players play hard, and they all actively recruit other players to tell them what a great place it is to live and play...Stop saying you have the "most affordable" gameday experience, and raise the ticket prices at least to mid-level within the NFL because we are not getting local businesses support. There are indeed businesses in the Rough Buff, but no one steps up. The Bills have the lowest ticket prices in the league, and when our owner gripes about profits and losses, we as fans call him cheap? Ralph Wilson should be looked at as a saint in the town of Buffalo IMO. The team is beloved, the history is rich, and the players generally behave. If the businesses dont want to step up, leave it to us the fans, and raise the ticket prices; screw Toronto...lets all generate some revenue and get some dope players in here to win a Super Bowl on our own. The NFL business is not about a focus on selling mid-level luxury seats at all. They are happy to sell you anything for as much money as you will give them so yes they do promote this feature. However, under the old CBA which fenced off luxury seat sales from being part of the money that the players accessed because it not part of the gross receipts designated for determining the salary cap. Under the new CBA the cap is determining by looking at ALL the gross receipts and removed this incentive for defining everything the owners could as a luxury item. Again, there is no case to define this financially as a situation where the NFL has to make and either/or decision between Buffalo and Toronto. The bean counters at the NFL know it would be dumb for them to throw away the significant number of nickels that Ralph has spent years building in WNY when they do not have to in order to also harvest dollars from the Toronto market. There is no question that a Toronto franchise would potentially make a lot more money than a Buffalo franchise, but again what are the credible reasons why the NFL would choose not to make money from BOTH a Toronto franchise and a Buffalo franchise if they can. They already know that they can make massive amounts of money from a Buffalo franchise and the huge list of potential ticket buyers indicates that at least initially there is a massive amount to be made in Toronto as well. It is simply a mistake to view the Bills franchise decision as being solely that of an individual owner. As the NFL as a whole will have the right of approval of any owner Ralph (or his estate) sales outright to, the decision will be not simply what is good for Ralph (who actually will be dead when the sale takes place) but will be determined by what is good for the NFL as a whole. Given a choice between the least money in Buffalo, a larger but still lesser amount of money from Toronto, or getting the most money by having franchises in both places, the likely choice is that the NFL will choose more money and run franchises in both cities.
Lurker Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 There are indeed businesses in the Rough Buff, but no one steps up. Not as many as in Chicago, clearly...
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