1billsfan Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 Exactly. I've been saying this for a long time. Thank you for re-oterating my point. We don't need a burner. Period. We need a guy with size who can win jump balls and use his size to his advantage in the redzone. That's all. In todays NFL, if as a WR you can't run a sub 4.5 forty time then DBs will pretty much own your ass on the next level unless you have superstar-like athletic skills, which I'm pretty sure that Jordy Nelson does not have. I was a supporter of drafting Nelson until I came to my senses. Neslon will be a good special teamer and backup receiver in this league. He's not a number 2 guy or the second coming of the electric Wes Welker. I can't see many NFL teams having him with a second round grade. To me he looks more like RD 3- 4 type. It's a huge reach that I hope the Bills do not take in round 2.
In space no one can hear Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 In todays NFL, if as a WR you can't run a sub 4.5 forty time then DBs will pretty much own your ass on the next level unless you have superstar-like athletic skills, which I'm pretty sure that Jordy Nelson does not have. I was a supporter of drafting Nelson until I came to my senses. Neslon will be a good special teamer and backup receiver in this league. He's not a number 2 guy or the second coming of the electric Wes Welker. I can't see many NFL teams having him with a second round grade. To me he looks more like RD 3- 4 type. It's a huge reach that I hope the Bills do not take in round 2. We definitely disagree on this one. Nelson WILL be taken in the second round. Athletically and competitievely he more than held his own at the Senior Bowl and at the combine. He ran a 4.51 at the combine, that is pretty darn close to your sub 4.5 benchmark. IMHO his competitive speed, cut-back ability and short area burst are A+, and this more than makes up for any perceived 40 time deficiency. If we dont take a WR in the first ,my guess is, Nelson is a very strong possibility in the second round.
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 In todays NFL, if as a WR you can't run a sub 4.5 forty time then DBs will pretty much own your ass on the next level unless you have superstar-like athletic skills, which I'm pretty sure that Jordy Nelson does not have. I was a supporter of drafting Nelson until I came to my senses. Neslon will be a good special teamer and backup receiver in this league. He's not a number 2 guy or the second coming of the electric Wes Welker. I can't see many NFL teams having him with a second round grade. To me he looks more like RD 3- 4 type. It's a huge reach that I hope the Bills do not take in round 2. I respectfully disagree with your comments. Route running is the most important thing--more than speed or size. If a receiver can't get off the line it doesn't matter how fast he is. I hate to beat a dead horse because it's been mentioned 500,000 times, but Jerry Rice never ran a 4.4----ever. Wes Welker? He's 5-9, 185. Nelson is 6-3, 217! A totally different type of receiver. Wes Welker is more like Roscoe Parrish. Here's an interesting example and a similar type of player: Kevin Walter of the Texans. Not impressed? Well, taking a look at his numbers he had 43 first downs last year---more than any Bills receiver. That's more important to me than a lot of other stats because we need a guy who can get open, move the chains, and be a red zone target. We have a #1 receiver and a lot of #3 or 4's. Unfortunately we don't have a crystal ball, but there's a lot of scouts who seem to think Nelson is going to be more productive and consistent than a lot of the receivers that will probably be picked ahead of him. Does that mean we should draft Nelson? No, unless he's a great value where we pick. 2nd round isn't too high, IMHO, and especially if we could pick up another 2nd it would be a home run.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 In todays NFL, if as a WR you can't run a sub 4.5 forty time then DBs will pretty much own your ass on the next level unless you have superstar-like athletic skills, which I'm pretty sure that Jordy Nelson does not have. I was a supporter of drafting Nelson until I came to my senses. Neslon will be a good special teamer and backup receiver in this league. He's not a number 2 guy or the second coming of the electric Wes Welker. I can't see many NFL teams having him with a second round grade. To me he looks more like RD 3- 4 type. It's a huge reach that I hope the Bills do not take in round 2. That part in bold is just plain stupid. Welker wasn't drafted and was cut by the Chargers. So don't say that Nelson isn't the 2nd coming of Welker because 2 years ago, you had no idea who Welker was. Nelson was very productive against good competition and has great size. He could develop into a very good #2 receiver in this league (is Jurecivious anymore athletic?).
1billsfan Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 We definitely disagree on this one. Nelson WILL be taken in the second round. Athletically and competitievely he more than held his own at the Senior Bowl and at the combine. He ran a 4.51 at the combine, that is pretty darn close to your sub 4.5 benchmark. IMHO his competitive speed, cut-back ability and short area burst our A+, and this more than makes up for any perceived 40 time deficiency. If we dont take a WR in the first ,my guess is, Nelson is a very strong possibility in the second round. His style looks more like that of a smallish tight end than a starting NFL wide receiver. From what I saw of him he only has one move, stop let the DB over pursue and go. It looks like he's much too plodding of a guy to ever make it as a starting NFL WR. Sorry, I know you guys are really high on him. But I just don't see him as having 2nd round talent. I don't see the athletic catches, I don't see enough of the separation speed regardless of his route running ability. This is the NFL, you either need speed or great athletic ability to thrive as a wide out. Nelson has neither. Someone will probably take him in the second round and live to regret their decision. If the Bills don't take Thomas in the first, they should try to trade back for extra picks. Use one of the extra picks on Earl Bennett in the third then go and take Dexter Jackson with the extra pick in the fourth. Both of these guys have the speed and athletic moves and have much higher potential than does Nelson. As for the Jerry Rice's slow forty time comment someone made, DBs are MUCH faster than when he was carving out his hall of fame career. Now we're comparing Nelson to Jerry Rice? Get a grip people. If you don't have speed as a WR, you will not make it in today's NFL. If he's there in the third round then maybe they take a chance, but the Bills would be MUCH better served to draft a OL, CB or even Lawrence Jackson than to draft Jordy Nelson. If they did draft him with their second pick it would be a very bad decision.
bizell Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 That part in bold is just plain stupid. Welker wasn't drafted and was cut by the Chargers. So don't say that Nelson isn't the 2nd coming of Welker because 2 years ago, you had no idea who Welker was. Nelson was very productive against good competition and has great size. He could develop into a very good #2 receiver in this league (is Jurecivious anymore athletic?). agreed. fwiw, with 1billsfan and his sub-4.5 times, Welker ran a 4.6 For an example of this, look no further than my personal hero, the beloved Wes Welker. Everyone, including Texas Tech, overlooked his abilities. All these teams saw was his diminutive height (5’9”) and mediocre speed (4.6). Wes proved everyone completely wrong throughout his career. The Longhorns and Aggies were left wondering how Welker completely torched their defenses year after year, and the Sooners were kicking themselves for letting Wes get out of Oklahoma. However, even after his illustrious collegiate career, Welker went undrafted. http://texastech.scout.com/2/564503.html another link saying welker ran 4.6 http://www.e-sports.com/articles/1537/1/Mi...sire/Page1.html so according to 1billsfan, wes welker should be out of the league because nfl DBs are eating him alive?
Chilly Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 His senior year, he didn't have less than 82 receiving yards in a game. In terms of college competition, he put up good to very good numbers against Talib of KU Pat Lee of Auburn Wheatley of Colorado and everyone at the U of Texas. While I appreciate the compliment for the school, our pass defense was one of the worst in the country the past couple years.
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 fwiw, with 1billsfan and his sub-4.5 times, Welker ran a 4.6 Yep. He just looks fast and that's because he's WIDE OPEN most of the time. It's all about the mismatches.
1billsfan Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 agreed. fwiw, with 1billsfan and his sub-4.5 times, Welker ran a 4.6 http://texastech.scout.com/2/564503.html another link saying welker ran 4.6 http://www.e-sports.com/articles/1537/1/Mi...sire/Page1.html so according to 1billsfan, wes welker should be out of the league because nfl DBs are eating him alive? I did say you either need speed or athletic moves. Wes Welker has very quick athletic moves, Nelson doesn't. IMO, he just isn't worthy of a second round pick. There's probably less than a 30 percent chance he'll ever become a #2 receiver in the NFL which is what the Bills would be drafting him to be were he picked that high.
1billsfan Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 While I appreciate the compliment for the school, our pass defense was one of the worst in the country the past couple years. Too funny.
Steely Dan Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 And he's white, so I'm sure everyone here will have a big man crush on him. I was going to ask how long until someone puts him in their mock draft signature, but I see Steely Dan already has it. He even has the other board favorite Owen Schmitt. Why are you prejudiced? If you would have noticed before I made my mock draft I had Jordy Nelson already listed as a player I'd like Buffalo to draft. If this guy is running a 4.5 I do not want him as a #2. I want a 4.3 to low 4.4 guy that will drag a safety, nickel corner, or linebacker away from the other offensive players. I want to scare the hell out def. coord's. everywhere. Rice ran a 4.65 forty. I guess you would have passed on him too.
inkman Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 Why are you prejudiced? I am. Good white skill position players (minus QB) are few and far between.
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 From Tom Modrak, FWIW: "Excellent catcher who played in the slot primarily," said Modrak. "Probably going to have to make the conversion to an outside receiver. Somebody could use him in the slot, but I'm thinking he's going to make the conversion. That will mean a little bit of an adjustment for him. But he's a tough, competitive guy who's deceptively fast. He's not in that Thomas class as far as speed on the clock, however, he manages to get by people. He's a big guy whose game is excellent catcher routes, underneath, mid distance, run after the catch kind of thing."
1billsfan Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 From Tom Modrak, FWIW: "Excellent catcher who played in the slot primarily," said Modrak. "Probably going to have to make the conversion to an outside receiver. Somebody could use him in the slot, but I'm thinking he's going to make the conversion. That will mean a little bit of an adjustment for him. But he's a tough, competitive guy who's deceptively fast. He's not in that Thomas class as far as speed on the clock, however, he manages to get by people. He's a big guy whose game is excellent catcher routes, underneath, mid distance, run after the catch kind of thing." I'm sorry, but Jordy Nelson is not a run after the catch kind of guy. That's complete bu__sh__. Maybe he was in his conference on the collegent level but not a chance in the pros.
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 Some vids The announcer says "4.3 speed". Yeah, right! 68 yard TD catch against probably a 1st round corner: Punt return for TD: Highlight reel:
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 From Tom Modrak, FWIW: "Excellent catcher who played in the slot primarily," said Modrak. "Probably going to have to make the conversion to an outside receiver. Somebody could use him in the slot, but I'm thinking he's going to make the conversion. That will mean a little bit of an adjustment for him..." this is an important statement, although who knows what the agenda is. It says that the Bills believe he has a learning curve ahead, beyond the typical rookie WR maturity that's been discussed many times. IMO they might draft him, but will also draft or trade for another WR who can produce sooner.
Recommended Posts